Which is faster- pistol or rifle?

[Bryan 45]

The barn stage at BRM3G started the wheels turning in my head about this one. For those that didn't shoot the match, when the shooter picked up their rifle, they entered a small barn and had the option of engaging (9) paper targets with either their handgun or rifle. The closest target was about 4', the farthest was about 10'. Some targets had either hard cover or no-shoots the shooter had to contend with. As the shooter exited the building, there was a pistol-only steel target about 30 yards out.

I've always felt that a rifle was quicker on multiple targets even up to contact distance. But, within my squad about 1/2 the shooters used their pistol in the barn. I used my rifle. It would have been nice to be able to run the stage twice, try it both ways, and use the best time- but of course we weren't given that option!

Care to share your thoughts?

[Doug H.]

I was there but only got to shoot stages 3 thru 8. I could probably shoot that faster with my pistol, but the major thing for me would be transition to different guns. If I could skip a transition I would be time ahead. Similar situation at Superstion this year. One stage you could shoot rifle or pistol on some targets and by just shooting the pistol I skipped the transition to rifle, saving time.

Doug

[EkuJustice]

It really depends on the shooter I think. For me I will go for the rifle if I have the opportunity as I have more confidence in the rifle than the pistol

[RiggerJJ]

I was there but only got to shoot stages 3 thru 8. I could probably shoot that faster with my pistol, but the major thing for me would be transition to different guns. If I could skip a transition I would be time ahead. Similar situation at Superstion this year. One stage you could shoot rifle or pistol on some targets and by just shooting the pistol I skipped the transition to rifle, saving time.

Doug

Doug,

What you failed to mention is you shot OPEN at SMM3G, those tgts were quite far for irons sights on a pistol on that stage, which was stage 5 I belive... there were a couple of non-open shooters I think that tried it with pistol, and they had trubs...

to answer the OP; MOST of the time, pistol is faster on hoser stuff (like pistol stages ).

I think the barn at BRM3G was faster with pistol than rifle, couple that with the manditory pistol tgts after you went thru the barn, IMHO the fastest was to burn the barn with pistol. You had to pick up your rifle before entering the barn either way you shot it, so that didn't really make a difference.

What I had trouble deciding on was the plates before the barn...I think they could have been done faster with shotgun, but those no-shoots were too close...

jj

Edited May 3, 2010 by RiggerJJ

[Dan Sierpina]

I think the barn at BRM3G was faster with pistol than rifle, couple that with the manditory pistol tgts after you went thru the barn, IMHO the fastest was to burn the barn with pistol. You had to pick up your rifle before entering the barn either way you shot it, so that didn't really make a difference.

What I had trouble deciding on was the plates before the barn...I think they could have been done faster with shotgun, but those no-shoots were too close...

jj

While JJ was at the shoot off, the rest of the squad shot stage 10(the barn). I think all of us shot the outside plates with pistol, and only shot the slug with the shotgun. It's faster to load a pistol, rather than the shotgun. We all did the barn with pistol, as JJ pointed out, the pistol was still needed when exiting. Given the distances, I think that pistol was faster than the rifle in the barn.

[Jesse Tischauser]

In general I think the rifle is faster unless you have a bunch of transitions that are 180 degrees back and forth. The dot in the TR24 and the comp on the JP just get back on target so much quicker. Heck at hoser distances the dot never leaves the A Zone.

[JeffWard]

A friend an I set up a 22-round stage, all paper with targets from 3'-30' away (close). We ran it 3 times each with pistol (iron sights) and rifle/carbine (1X Red-Dot). I averaged 2 seconds FASTER with the pistol, but scored higher with the carbine. I think he was about the same...

I think the pistol with irons allows faster transition with tight stuff, but the rifle is always a bit more accurate.

I'm a B-Class shooter, shooting a Production (M&P 9-Pro) gun, and a 16" Carbine with a dot.

Jeff

[BSeevers]

I have ran the same comp field courses with 38Super and AR Open and Super wins by a small margin of time usually around 10%. When the Zombies come though its AR first because of the Power and longer range capability and then I transistion to Super.

Not that I have thought about it or anything.

[bigbrowndog]

Given that stage, those targets were close enough to be shot faster with a pistol, I shot them stronghand and held onto the rifle to keep it from banging around. the time in the barn would have been quicker with 2 hands on the pistol, but i got all of my hits. Slinging the rifle up going into the barn, caused my shooting glasses to come off and then unslinging it caused my earplug to come out. both of which cost considerable time to reacquire. Transitions with a pistol for me with targets out to 7yds and swings 90 to 170degrees, are faster with a pistol than a rifle.

but it is a skill that any shooter should work on and know their own ability and limitations.

Trapr

[latewatch]

I used my pistol in the barn on Stage 10 for two reasons. First was the steel pistol target on the left as soon as you exited the barn. By using my pistol inside I was able to go right to that target when I went out the back door. Second reason was that the rifle was unloaded when you picked it up. I feel is was able to sling the rifle unloaded and draw my pistol and get on target much faster then trying to load the rifle and get on the first target. I then loaded my rifle after I went out the back of the barn and had engaged all the pistol steel. I feel I was able to load the rifle while I was transitioning and taking up position which saved time. Whether the rifle or pistol is quicker for close range targets is highly dependant on the situation in front of you just like most other things.

[caspian guy]

At the club match I run we do 4 pistol and 2 rifle stages every month. One of the long pistol field courses usually gets re-used as a rifle stage. Shooting an open pistol I am usually a bit faster on targets from contact distance to 12-17 yards and lots of movement and transitions. Beyond that distance I am usually faster with a rifle.

[Alaskapopo]

I have tested 5 shooters so far on a simple drill at 7 yards. Start from low ready and fire 2 rounds into each target. There were 3 USPSA targets at 7 yards spaced 3 yards apart. All shooters I tested but one were faster with the rifle. The one shooter who was not is a better pistol shot and not as good with the rifle generally. I have also ran stages at three gun matches where you shoot it with a pistol and then later with a carbine. Max range is 20 yards. Carbine times were better except with a few shooters.

I have it all written down and some videos if anyone is interested. The trend I notices is that as skill level increases the rifles edge in speed at close range over the pistol shrinks or inverts. Meaning a master class shooter may do better with a pistol than he does with a rifle. But a C class shooter will do better with the rifle. That is what I found in my experiements anyway.

Pat

[Jesse Tischauser]

Meaning a master class shooter may do better with a pistol than he does with a rifle. But a C class shooter will do better with the rifle. That is what I found in my experiements anyway.

Pat

if say that's a pretty good generalization except I would say the cross over would occur around a high B to an A class shooter.

[chendersby]

For open the pistol is faster.

Tactical/Limited depends on how tight and how far the shots are.

I'm assuming no targets over 10 yards.

[Bryan 45]

You guys have my brain working over-time now. I used the shotgun for everything outside the front of the barn. There was enough movement I don't think I wasted too much time loading it. I did draw my pistol twice on the back side of the barn, which I'm sure wasted some time. I engaged the one target to the left, holstered, shot the flashers, shot the close paper w/ the rifle until it ran dry, then finished up the remaining 3 steel and about 2-3 paper targets w/ the pistol.

Sometimes it seems pulling the trigger is the easy part of our game.

Edited May 4, 2010 by Bryan 45

[ken hebert]

I used handgun for everything outside the barn except for the required slug shots. Used handgun in the barn, as well as for the first 4 paper outside, the ones starting from the left. only used rifle for the long steel in the woods and the 4 paper over the log. I, without a doubt, know I was faster in the barn with my handgun than I would have been with my rifle, as there were at a minimum 4 switchbacks as you negotiated your way through, as well as the obstacles you had to run around. (i'm an A limited)

Also, if it helps you answer your question, I know that Jerry M used his handgun in the barn, and i'm pretty sure he knows about the best way through a "choice" course.

[Clint U66]

I chose to shoot through the house with the rifle. While I do agree that you lose time in the transition to the rifle I think it evens out once all is said and done. Had I shot the house with the pistol I would have had to reload and I didn't like the idea of manuvering through the house with the rifle swinging around. For me I think I would have been slower shooting the pistol because of the previoulsly mentioned obstacles. This was my first 3 gun event so without any experience I chose the way that I felt would be easiest to execute and didn't leave much room for error. Made it out with a respectable score and didn't hurt myself or someone else so in some ways I think it worked.

[Bryan 45]

I kind of figured out this video thing, it takes a few seconds to load, but here's my run through the barn. I cut edited it just a little short, should have showed the transition to the pistol at the end, but thought I'd share anyway.

Of course since I posted a link to my youtube video, I had to delete all the Elton John and Devo videos off my channel....

Edited May 20, 2010 by Bryan 45

[bigbrowndog]

Bryan, you should have been able to fire quicker shots with the rifle if you'd taken a more aggressive stance, you appear to be mostly upright when firing inside the barn, a bit more lean into the rifle would allow better recoil recovery.

trapr

[AlamoShooter]

I used my pistol in the barn on Stage 10 for two reasons. First was the steel pistol target on the left as soon as you exited the barn. By using my pistol inside I was able to go right to that target when I went out the back door. Second reason was that the rifle was unloaded when you picked it up. I feel is was able to sling the rifle unloaded and draw my pistol and get on target much faster then trying to load the rifle and get on the first target. I then loaded my rifle after I went out the back of the barn and had engaged all the pistol steel. I feel I was able to load the rifle while I was transitioning and taking up position which saved time. Whether the rifle or pistol is quicker for close range targets is highly dependant on the situation in front of you just like most other things.

+ 1 Same thing for me.

And If I had my Open gun , I would go with my strength and use the handgun for sure. But and Open Shotgun for 3gun is too "Busy" for me

I think Bryan is rite "Pulling the trigger is the easyest part for me'

Edited May 20, 2010 by AlamoShooter

[MarkCO]

I used handgun for everything outside the barn except for the required slug shots. Used handgun in the barn, as well as for the first 4 paper outside, the ones starting from the left. only used rifle for the long steel in the woods and the 4 paper over the log. I, without a doubt, know I was faster in the barn with my handgun than I would have been with my rifle, as there were at a minimum 4 switchbacks as you negotiated your way through, as well as the obstacles you had to run around.

I used the same plan as Ken, or he copied me since I shot it first, except the last long range steel in the woods I had to give up on the rest and shoot it offhand...supported rifle is highly over-rated

IF the barn was open air with more light, I might have been tempted to shoot it with the rifle, but I felt pistol was much faster given the lower light and switchbacks, not to mention saving the legs from the corners of those desks in there and the elmination of transitions. Best thing about 10 was I got to shoot shotgun without having to reload it on the clock!

I am a much better rifle shooter than pistol shooter and most of the time on close targets pistol is faster for me. Just shot the RM 300 and stage 1 was 32 targets with angled and partial hardcover. I shot it in 28 seconds, 9 points down. I'd be willing to bet large sums of peanuts that rifle would have been slower for everyone on that stage. My transition seems to be about 8 or 9 yards when rifle overtakes pistol as far as hit factor is concerned.

[mpeltier]

I agree it depends on the shooter. I went with the rifle in the barn on stage 10. I did so for several reasons. Upon picking up and slinging the rifle there was enough time to load it before the first target. The barn was pretty dark, and going in from a very bright outside made the first target very hard to see and I would not have been able to see my front pistol sight probably throughout most of the barn, there were no such issues with the Trijicon TR24. It was plenty bright thru out. Also negotiating the barn with a slung rifle did present a possible bump into things, especialy around the desks. I managed a raw time of 127.19. About half of our squad used the pistol (including Jamie) and did very well with it. If I were to do it again i would again use the rifle. Also, I used my shotgun for everything prior to entering the barn. There was plenty of movement to not have to do a standing load with it. I do use what i call creative loading, where I had a slug in the chamber and one at the end of the tube, so at the farthest shooting position i shot slug, B,B,B,B,B,B,B,B,slug, no port loading or standing loads. It worked beautifully (except for hitting the tree branch with my last slug )

[Benelli Chick]

Today at our local match, we ran a little 20 round close quarters stage once with pistol and once with rifle.

2/3 of our shooters were faster with rifle. The 1/3 that were faster with pistol were our faster shooters.

About half the people faster with rifle were very close, less than 4 seconds.

JJ thought pistol would end up being faster, but he used to be an Open pistol shooter.

He ran it faster with his .308 than the .45. He also shot the stage faster with his .308 than the open shooter who won the match did with his .223.

JJ says it just proves iron sights are faster!

So, what we've concluded is...it depends! Profound!

It really depends on your abilities and comfort with each firearm! When given the choice, you need to know what you're good at and play to your strengths.

We may do it again. Most people were faster with their second gun!!! Hmmmmm!