ogiebb Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 i hate it when some a--hole wanna be range shooter puts down an IPSC shooter..they say IPSC shooters just shoot fast but can never really hit a target... yeah right in a real gunfight i should just stand and aim that long???..no way ill be running for cover while shooting Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jasonub Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Simple solution to these people. Set up a plate rack at 10 yards and shoot it on the draw and time yourself and ask them if they can do better since your an IPSC shooter. Clean the plates in 5 seconds and their mouths will open. Clean in in 4 they will get the picture. clean it in 3 and they start packing thier things. clean it in less than 3 seconds and they will be converted. HAAAALLLLLLLEEEEEELUUUUUUUUYYYYAAAAAA Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Noble attempts to "convert" ignorant morons are a waste of your valuable time. I just tell them to get the hell out of my way, let me do my thing, and go piss and moan on someone else's time. A closed mind will never receive enlightenment. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zorba Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Well said EricW.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dajarrel Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Those that can't swim, usually don't like the water. Now after my poor attempt at humor... I think everyone has seen these types, they sit on the sidelines, berating or making snide remarks about everything. It doesn't matter where they are or what they are watching. If it isn't what THEY are into, or what THEY are doing, it's wrong or stupid. Just my opiniated observations, dj Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TriggerT Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 People have always made fun of, or put down thing they can't understand, or are incapable of doing. Waste of time to worry about them, but I can understand how hard it can be to tolerate them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Noone should have to suffer fools or stupidity lightly... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Guest Larry Cazes Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 There will always be people who prefer to sit on the sidelines and get some kind of satisfaction from criticising the rest of us who participate in competitive sports. The best revenge is to just ignore them...... Larry Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rufus The Bum Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Noble attempts to "convert" ignorant morons are a waste of your valuable time. I just tell them to get the hell out of my way, let me do my thing, and go piss and moan on someone else's time.A closed mind will never receive enlightenment. VERY well said Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rhino Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 What really amuses me is when one of the naysayers makes a comment about how unsafe IPSC shooters are. I see that from time to time on places like the 1911 Forums and I can't wrap my mind around where they get such an obviously wrong idea. Maybe they just want it that way. The harshest critics of IPSC (and those who happen to have the least logical and most innacurate claims) usually fall into a few categories: 1. Never actually been to a match, but read about it in gun rags or hears about it from the boys at the range 2. Shot once and learned that not only were they not the best, they weren't even close to the regular guys at the bottom 3. Tried it for a while and never succeeded to their level of expectation. Since it couldn't be their fault, it had to be the game 4. The people who think it's inherently dangerous to move while you have a loaded gun in your hands I realize there are plenty of legitimate criticisms of IPSC (and we see a lot here from among our own ranks!), but I think most of the really stupid things we read and hear from "outside" are born from some combination of ignorance and sour grapes. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 i hate it when some a--hole wanna be range shooter puts down an IPSC shooter..they say IPSC shooters just shoot fast but can never really hit a target... yeah right in a real gunfight i should just stand and aim that long???..no way ill be running for cover while shooting Here is my solution. I just say ok, can you make this shot, then I pace of 30 yards and set up two target. Then you slowly break off 5 rounds on your target. And then you let them take their 5 shots on their target. Then when you score the targets you ask them why they they shot for the big part of the target and you show them your 5 headshots. That usually ends discussions about being able to shoot accurately. If you can't hit 5 headshots at 30 with a limited pistol, start @ 15' and work your way back until you can get all 5 hits taking all the time you need for three times in a row. Being able to shoot accurately is a good skill to have in your toolbox. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bucky Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Noble attempts to "convert" ignorant morons are a waste of your valuable time. I just tell them to get the hell out of my way, let me do my thing, and go piss and moan on someone else's time. While people like this can be very annoying, I still think it is worth it to befriend them and make them understand our passion. The real enemy are the anti's, and we're on the furthest arm of the other side. We need to make non-ipscers realize that "Well I don't need more than 10 rounds in a magazine" is a dangerous precendence. We (shooters) need to all be in this together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Shooter Grrl Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Must be a guy thing, no one ever says that to me. (Very big evil grin) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
uscbigdawg Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 When I encounter the nay-sayers, they typically fall into the classes listed by rhino. My favorite incident to date was a guy at a Glock match, ripping on IPSC shooters as he went to shoot the plate rack. After dumping a mag with 3 plates standing, he kind of shut up about accuracy. Especially when my range officer partner explained to him that he was an IPSC shooter and shot the plate rack with all of his run totalling less than 13 seconds, with a G27. The club that I shoot the most at has a lot of newbies that show and unfortunately do not return. Part of it I believe is the club's treatment (or lack of hand holding) of new shooters. Good or bad, there should be some hand holding and affirmation that they are not shooting against those that are more seasoned. To start they are shooting against themselves. However, personal egos being what they are, they leave and tend to gravitate to IDPA, where the verbal wars escalate (locally). Don't really know why that's the case here, but when I lived in the midwest, specifically Kansas City metro, the guys that I shot with that were hard core self defense practitioners had no animosity. They acknowledged the differences and appreciated them for what they are. Ultimately it comes down to individuals. People go with what they "know" and make judgements without appreciating, not understanding, appreciating the differences. I try to just smile and agree that there are differences and everyone has their opinions. However, if they're still being a jerk, I remind them TGO won the first IDPA Nationals and was the first four gun master. Too, I remind them that IPSC shooters tend to do very, very well at "accuracy" matches like the Bianchi Cup, The Masters The Steel Challenge and The World Shoot-offs (I know speed is the governing factor on the last two, but it still requires a very high level of accurate shooting). Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3quartertime Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Two things struck me reading this,,, I always get a kick out of the cops or more so the wanna be cop types that come and play the game or hear me talking about it. It must really suck to learn that there are shooters out there that really know how to use/safely handle a weapon...I have all the possible respect for the protectors of the peace. It's just amazing to me that anyone could live with a blaster strapped on and not really know how to use it. Of course there are many exceptional shooters in enforcement, but I think a large majority only carry a weapon because they have to. Here is my solution.I just say ok, can you make this shot, then I pace of 30 yards and set up two target. Then you slowly break off 5 rounds on your target. And then you let them take their 5 shots on their target. Then when you score the targets you ask them why they they shot for the big part of the target and you show them your 5 headshots. That usually ends discussions about being able to shoot accurately. If you can't hit 5 headshots at 30 with a limited pistol, start @ 15' and work your way back until you can get all 5 hits taking all the time you need for three times in a row. Being able to shoot accurately is a good skill to have in your toolbox. Twix and I used to play a game like this. It was always interesting how hard it was for most shooters to shoot groups even at close range. Easily shows bad techniques. Twix always kicked my butt when we would get out to 25 yards or so but the interesting thing was after about 10yards we were the only ones still shooting A's the hard way!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paladin Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 We need to win these guys over to IPSC.. it really grows the sport and it also allows one to develop phenomenal gun handling skills and safety awareness. In the 'real' world this can HELP tremendously if it goes along with the appropriate mindset. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matthew_Mink Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Winning them over is hard, if not impossible, due to most of them being completely closedminded. Even while beating them at their own game, the excuses are always there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TravisT Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 While people like this can be very annoying, I still think it is worth it to befriend them and make them understand our passion. Well said Bucky, and cool avatar. The converted ones often become our most ardent supporters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Merlin Orr Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 If someone shows interest - Be friendly and helpful. If negative about our sport - remain courteous and possibly try to correct any misconceptions that are glaringly apparent. Does not pay to be argumentative - Shake the sand from your shoes and walk away. IMHO this sport is Not for most people and why bust their bubble? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tightloop Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I agree with Merlin. Even way back when I was shooting actively, yu had people drift in and out of IPSC, shoot a while and then quit a while, you had those who got all rigged up and got their hat handed to them the first 6 times they showed up and quit for good, and you had those who joined and then wanted to change the very premise of the sport when they first showed up. It is NOT for everyone...It takes a really competitive person to be comfortable doing this for the long haul. You cannot have thin skin and hang with the guys I shoot with. I think this very fact is evidenced in the discussions here on the forum. Not all, but many of the shooters here are A type personalities. It also takes some special sub traits to be good at this. Yu have to be more detail oriented than one would first think, you have to be analytical to a degree, and not trying to hurt anyone's feelings, but you can't be a dummy and do well at this; it is too involved. I believe in encouraging people to TRY this kind of shooting, but as said above, it isn't for everyone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Limitless13 Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 I'm lucky enough to have not run into anyone at the range who hasn't been helpful yet. But then again, most people aren't terribly comfortable around a 19 yr. old pulling A's at 25 yards. KS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
George Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 New shooters are the lifeblood of any sport, and there is no way to say that someone cannot be positively influenced. Animosity closes doors and becomes a two way street once attitude is proffered at both ends. Tolerance, patience and a good natured approach to showing the way will go a lot further towards converting and educating than any other approach when faced with detractors and overly gung-ho newcomers. Early on, I ran into friendly shooters (practice RO's) who showed me the path towards competition and gave me much without demanding anything in return (other than demonstrating safety that is). I feel that anytime I use a chance to present what we do in a positive manner to any new, or uneducated person, that I am paying back and forward what I owe. Conversion is the cornerstone of any religion, and preaching to the choir is not where the preaching is needed. Regards, Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
k tyler Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 Being a Cop and a firearms instructor I get the opprotunity to meet many anti IPSC shooters. Like every time I go to a "tactical" class. I get bashed for the whole week, "IPSC isn't tactical....its a bunch of spray and pray shooters with no discipline....." etc Yet I have taken top shooter at every firearms class I've been to. I finally had enough at one of these classes and asked the NRA instructor over to my house for dinner. Once I got him all relaxed I asked him "Who said IPSC is tactical? We all claim it to be a high level firearm sport. I got the umm uumm, the gun handling is unsafe. I kept calm and asked if he has ever been to a match...you guessed it "no". I have been to 2 classed taught by the same NRA master instructor who also claims he passed the Chuck Taylor Combat Master course. 4 times he has challenged me to shoot against him. Twice with pistol and twice with rifle. All four had the same results....he lost. My parting comments were, "The most important skill in a gun fight is to get as many round on the threat in as short amount of time as possible", "You have the rest of your life to solve the problem, how long that time is...is up to you". DVC-Single stack dinosours unite Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nate Posted December 23, 2003 Share Posted December 23, 2003 This topic seems pretty well covered except for the part about 5 30 yard A's..........I'll get my rifle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sam Posted December 24, 2003 Share Posted December 24, 2003 There is another name for this kind of criticism. It's called denial. The typical guy shows up to one match and gets his butt handed to him, as we all did the first time we went out. Then his ego kicks in. "I can't be that far behind these guys on the skill curve", it tells him. It must be that......they aren't doing it right! Case in point: The local homies wanted to start shooting again last year after they had quit for about ten years. But they wanted IDPA, because IPSC is just "spray and pray". I was a run of the mill shooter ten years ago when they dropped out. And so, having no one local to play with, I sought USPSA by driving 3 hours one way. So we go out in May, first match, and shoot the classifier course. Shazaam! The wild-eyed IPSC junkie makes IDPA Master with time to spare, shooting out of a Bladetech with a CZ-75. (Of course everybody here at be.com knows that success on the IDPA classifier is all about shooting aces from the twenty yard line.) One of the chief IPSC critics, a very capable shooter who who placed second with almost double my score, (about 175 pts on the classifier) asked me how I did it. I told him "it took me eight years to make Master in IPSC and forty minutes to do it in IDPA. Which sport do you think is more difficult." He looked at his shoes and walked away. Guess what, now they don't wanna shoot IDPA either. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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