Set up at local matches

[Nathanb]

If I got paid to put on a match I wouldn't even know what to do with myself. 

[Chills1994]

CrashDodson wrote:

 

I would think you would have people peeling off early and not helping with tear down in this format.

 

I don't know.  I never stuck around long enough to find out.  

 

The other thing that was neat about Lefthander's modus operandi was they had a window of time of say 8AM to 10AM to sign up for the match.  It was kinda on the honor system.  There wasn't anybody there to collect your match fee. You signed in on one sheet.  Plunked you money dow on the table ( or in a box or jar, I can't remember for sure.  It's been a few years).  Grabbed your scoresheet packet, and you were on your way to squad up with whoever you carpooled with or who you could find.

 

There wasn't an safety briefing or anything like that at a set time.

 

[sarnburg]

It is all about expectations. As a club president/MD you have to be blunt with your competitors. Set the expectation that everyone is expected to help with setup, tear down, and stage re-setting. Then you need to re enforce that expectation. Here is what I have learned works good for my local club. We run about 40 USPSA matches a year, and another 50 or so (combined) IDPA, Steel, and 3gun matches. 

1. I never post a shooting start time. I always post setup start time. An example would be "Setup starts at 8 am and shooting as soon as the stages are ready".
2. I ask for volunteers to manage construction for a bay and give them clear expectations on what I want built there. We only have 3 large bays to use so we normally double up on each bay. One large field course paired with a speed shoot or skills focused stage. 
3. As President/MD/RM I do not normally build stages -- My job is to float from bay to bay and make sure stages are being built. This is also when I work with the stage designer to make changes to stages to make sure they comply with the current rules and do not suck. I always communicate with the stage designer to make sure they understand why the changes need to be made. 
4. As the match wraps up the President/MD/RM does not help with tear down. I am working on scoring and taking note of the people who shoot and scoot. With Practiscore my goal is to have scores posted before I leave the range. We have a trailer for each bay that holds all the props for the stages in the bay. This way all tear down consists of is putting props on the trailer. 
5. The next step is the hardest because it involves confrontation. Those competitors that continually do not help the President/MD/RM has to call them out on their behavior. This goes beyond setup and tear down. I have been known to hand out pasters and offer a practical demonstration on their use.There are two types of competitors at the club level Users and Doers. A little work and bluntness combined with courtesy will go a long way to convert your Users into Doers. Alternatively the Users will find another sport with less expectations -- like Trap or Steel Challenge. 
6. If the above does not work find a "heavy". Everyone knows that person in your club that does not have a filter and get them to do your dirty work. Peer pressure is a great thing make it work for you. 
7. Deliver a great product. Lets face it we have all shot club matches that sucked. As a Club President/MD/RM if you put on a great club match with challenging stages your competitors will want to come to your match and getting them to work with be much easier. 

This is what has worked for my local club. In five years we went from nothing to 65% of the mission count for Iowa. 

 

Scott Arnburg 

 

 

 

 

On 1/26/2017 at 3:56 PM, mlm said:

Have a bit of an issue and would like some input from this large group. The club I belong to, puts on two matches a month. The day before the match, there are usually only 2-3 of the same people that will take the time to come out to the range and help set up the COF's. On match day we get there about 2-3 hours before the match starts and set the rest of it up. How do you get these shooters to be more involved with COF setup. We all know this is a volunteer sport and can not grow without help from like minded people. We do get some help in tear down, the shooters tear down the last stage, do not load on the trailer nor do they help put everything away. How do other clubs handle this. Do not post scores til everything is put away. Do not post scores of the shooters that do not help? I understand that folks work on Saturday and do not get to the range til 30 minutes before start time.

Like some input as to what other clubs do to get folks involved.

Thanks,

Mike

 

[Chills1994]

Good post ^^^, Scott

 

<citizen cane clapping .gif here>

[Trent1k1]

We had a guy who made up a t-shirt.  On the back it said, "If you can read this, then get off your butt and start pasting"

[mreed911]

17 minutes ago, sarnburg said:

It is all about expectations. As a club president/MD you have to be blunt with your competitors. Set the expectation that everyone is expected to help with setup, tear down, and stage re-setting. Then you need to re enforce that expectation. Here is what I have learned works good for my local club. We run about 40 USPSA matches a year, and another 50 or so (combined) IDPA, Steel, and 3gun matches. 

1. I never post a shooting start time. I always post setup start time. An example would be "Setup starts at 8 am and shooting as soon as the stages are ready".

 

That's a great suggestion.  What's your experience been with late-comers and stragglers?

[sarnburg]

They have to find me and wait to get added to a squad. This way I can make small talk and slip in a comment like "glad you could make it, even a little late. It will be nice to have all your help during tear down". Many times I will walk them to their bay and add them to the scoring device myself. Once the squads have moved from their starting bays we do not normally accept any more competitors. I also give out my cell number and I get texts of people running late. 

 

One thing I forgot is we do all online registration through Practiscore and also take match payments. This way I spend less time checking people in. 

 

Scott Arnburg

 

 

1 minute ago, mreed911 said:

 

 

1 minute ago, mreed911 said:

That's a great suggestion.  What's your experience been with late-comers and stragglers?

 

[mlm]

We have been doing exactly as you are doing. Sometimes at tear down it works. At least the shooters are tearing down the stage after all shooters are done. But then the 3-4 who setup use two-three trailers to put everything away. We use Practicsore for registration  and for scoring. Have not thought about not posting a start time. That makes sense so no one knows when it starts until all stages are set up. As far as confrontation , I am not afraid of that. I will be the first one to tell a shooter, "NEED TAPERS out here. Or need some kind of help. But I have been at this since 1986 in South Texas. USPSA, IDPA in 1997, 3 gun and 2 gun. Shy I am not, but have to temper that do not want to drive shooters away. I know some who shouldnot be there but what the hell, it happens.

IMVHO

Mike

[Chills1994]

1 hour ago, sarnburg said:

They have to find me and wait to get added to a squad. This way I can make small talk and slip in a comment like "glad you could make it, even a little late. It will be nice to have all your help during tear down". Many times I will walk them to their bay and add them to the scoring device myself. Once the squads have moved from their starting bays we do not normally accept any more competitors. I also give out my cell number and I get texts of people running late. 

 

One thing I forgot is we do all online registration through Practiscore and also take match payments. This way I spend less time checking people in. 

 

Scott Arnburg

 

 

 

 

 

Slight tangent...what's your policy, if you have one, on classifier stage reshoots?

 

 

[sarnburg]

Unless it is an all classifier match we do not allow re-shoots. If you go to a level 2+ you do not get to re-shoot a stage you do not like the score on. 

 

We also do not allow multiple entries for the same competitor. If the MD has time we will occasionally leave classifier stages up after the rest of the match is tore down. Once everything but the classifier stage(s) is put away competitors may shoot other divisions.  Many times I will RO and score to help get people through and classified.

 

We adopted the single entry rule to keep the match moving. 

 

Scott 

[Chills1994]

On Monday, January 30, 2017 at 6:57 PM, sarnburg said:

Unless it is an all classifier match we do not allow re-shoots. If you go to a level 2+ you do not get to re-shoot a stage you do not like the score on. 

 

We also do not allow multiple entries for the same competitor. If the MD has time we will occasionally leave classifier stages up after the rest of the match is tore down. Once everything but the classifier stage(s) is put away competitors may shoot other divisions.  Many times I will RO and score to help get people through and classified.

 

We adopted the single entry rule to keep the match moving. 

 

Scott 

 

 

Okay, thank you Scott.

[Nik Habicht]

On 1/30/2017 at 2:09 PM, DanL said:

Reality that I have seen the last 11 years is that you need 12-15 per squad just to move it along without running. You have a man on the timer, one keeping score,the shooter and on deck shooter. Usually the previous shooter is still fiddling around loading or cleaning mags. That leaves 7-10 to reset the stage.  And yes I have helped set them up tear them down and usually am one the the people running timer and or keeping score. 

7-10 to reset between shooters?  if you need more than four, either the competitors are really bad at efficiently resetting, or the stages are badly thought out.....

[Beef15]

One match I go to seems to have a very effective method for set-up.

Registration is regularly full in an hour. Want to guarantee a spot and not have to stalk practiscore? Commit to setting up. You shoot free too. There's 15 slots reserved for the set-up crew.

 

I haven't been to a match where tear down didn't have plenty of help, maybe not everybody, but 40-50% at the stage, usually it dwindles before the trailer/truck gets there due to the delay. Packing the stuff in sheds I don't know, no one has ever asked for help with that.

[CrashDodson]

1 hour ago, Beef15 said:

One match I go to seems to have a very effective method for set-up.

Registration is regularly full in an hour. Want to guarantee a spot and not have to stalk practiscore? Commit to setting up. You shoot free too. There's 15 slots reserved for the set-up crew.

 

I haven't been to a match where tear down didn't have plenty of help, maybe not everybody, but 40-50% at the stage, usually it dwindles before the trailer/truck gets there due to the delay. Packing the stuff in sheds I don't know, no one has ever asked for help with that.

 

If we ever start filling our matches that is a good idea on the reserved slots.  Tear down for us is never a problem.  Its just the setup part.  I got a call from the board of our range yesterday that told me I have to setup the day before closer to sundown to allow the regular members time on the bays.  yay.  

[JAFO]

32 minutes ago, CrashDodson said:

 

If we ever start filling our matches that is a good idea on the reserved slots.  Tear down for us is never a problem.  Its just the setup part.  I got a call from the board of our range yesterday that told me I have to setup the day before closer to sundown to allow the regular members time on the bays.  yay.  

 

Yeah, at my last club we weren't allowed to start until after 5pm.  That made for some nights using headlights to illuminate the bays in winter, as none of the bays had lights.

[DanL]

5 hours ago, Nik Habicht said:

7-10 to reset between shooters?  if you need more than four, either the competitors are really bad at efficiently resetting, or the stages are badly thought out.....

Call it what you want but that is the reality almost everywhere I've shot in Area 8 which is most of it. 

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, JAFO said:

 

Yeah, at my last club we weren't allowed to start until after 5pm.  That made for some nights using headlights to illuminate the bays in winter, as none of the bays had lights.

Both clubs I shoot at locally set up the morning of. We start about 90 mins early, and different folks take charge of different bays and grab a few people and git 'er done. It really doesn't take that long to set up stages for a local match. If we tried to do it the day before i think it would become a real burden on the people involved, and drastically reduce participation in setup.

[MemphisMechanic]

4 hours ago, CrashDodson said:

...I got a call from the board of our range yesterday that told me I have to setup the day before closer to sundown to allow the regular members time on the bays.  yay.  

A useful reason to make an announcement to your competitiors that there won't be day-early setup anymore, at the request of the range.

 

"Set up time is 8am. We will walkthrough and shoot as soon as the stages are complete. I'm heading out there to set up a classifier and six short courses full of stronghand / weakhand stand-and-shoots. If you enjoy field courses, come start setting one up before I get to that bay."

Edited February 1, 2017 by MemphisMechanic

[Prov1x]

Some of you guys have some pretty understanding shooters....

[Sarge]

On 2/1/2017 at 2:58 PM, DanL said:

Call it what you want but that is the reality almost everywhere I've shot in Area 8 which is most of it. 

Deleted as I misread the post!

Edited February 2, 2017 by Sarge

[Chills1994]

15 hours ago, Prov1x said:

Some of you guys have some pretty understanding shooters....

 

I don't have a problem with any of it as long as it is announced either via email, the club's website, or the club's facebook page like a week in advance.

 

To say put out an email that says the match starts  at 8AM and people start showing up at say 7:30 and nothing is set up would be a total dick move (to sucker people into helping out with set up), in my opinion.

 

But to put out an email a week ahead of time that says people who help with set up starting at 8AM are guaranteed a slot  (regardless of pre-sign up with practiscore) and that the shooting actually starts once all the stages are set up....yeah, I am totally fine with that.

 

It gives people enough notice.  If they don't like that modus operandi, then they can go make plans for something else instead.

 

It also gives people a chance to give input to the MD during that week.  If you have some more gung-ho people, especially the ones who are certified RO's to email the MD back with, "Hey, I would like to design and set up a stage for the match."  

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

5 minutes ago, Chills1994 said:

 

I don't have a problem with any of it as long as it is announced either via email, the club's website, or the club's facebook page like a week in advance.

 

To say put out an email that says the match starts  at 8AM and people start showing up at say 7:30 and nothing is set up would be a total dick move (to sucker people into helping out with set up), in my opinion.

 

 

 

I shoot at one club, that advertises starting at 9 am. And they really need to start at 9 am because that gives them enough time to finish at the agreed upon time to open the bays back up for the general membership. This club only charges $5 to shoot the match, believe it or not.

 

It's kind of funny to watch, about 9:15, 9:20 there will be 30 guys standing around BS'ing and a few working. Then some of the BS'ers start bugging the MD with "when are we going to start?".... "aren't we supposed to start at 9:00?" All I know is I'm happy I don't have to deal with that shit.

 

[Chills1994]

On Wednesday, February 01, 2017 at 10:43 AM, CrashDodson said:

 

If we ever start filling our matches that is a good idea on the reserved slots.  Tear down for us is never a problem.  Its just the setup part.  I got a call from the board of our range yesterday that told me I have to setup the day before closer to sundown to allow the regular members time on the bays.  yay.  

 

That happens at every club/range where the non-USPSA/non-IDPA  people bitch about the USPSA'ers and IDPA'ers hogging up the range.  I imagine that 99% of the time it is the Fudd's who think our versions of running and gunning looks sooooo dangerous.

 

Yes, switching to strictly the morning of set up would help alleviate some of that bitching.

 

But, in my mind, the people who are bitching probably never showed up to an executive board meeting or to a regular club meeting to voice their concerns before it was decided upon or voted on to allow USPSA at your range/club.

 

The board guy should have told the whiners that:  "the match schedule is posted on the club/range website.  USPSA matches are always on the second Saturday with set up on the Friday before.  Plan accordingly."

 

And...

 

 

"...deal with it."

 

Edited February 2, 2017 by Chills1994

[CrashDodson]

That would only happen once before I became not so nice MD.  

 

Is this an actual USPSA club?  I don't know how they can do $5 with USPSA fees and the price of cardboard targets.  

[Chills1994]

1 minute ago, CrashDodson said:

That would only happen once before I became not so nice MD.  

 

Is this an actual USPSA club?  I don't know how they can do $5 with USPSA fees and the price of cardboard targets.  

 

There once was a "club"  or range near St. Louis that had a 3 match rule.

 

You could shoot any of the matches there but after your third match it was ruled that you had to join the club.

 

The match fees there were super cheap.

 

Of course when you're charging around $250 for yearly dues, you can get by with cheap match fees.

 

Even though I lived 55 miles away,  I joined the club in order to keep shooting the matches.

 

Rumor mill wise, I have heard or read that they now allow non-club members to shoot out there, but there may be some additional hoops to jump through or the match fees may be higher for non-club members.