Doug H. Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) No shuttle, walk it like a Trooper should! And stay on schedule, or match DQ for delaying the match. jj Makes it rough on the ROs that have to shoot 9 stages 7 miles apart in 2 days. Doug Edited June 12, 2016 by Doug H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) Oops. Edited June 12, 2016 by Doug H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TonytheTiger Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I guess you guys don't get it. The PCC does not replace the rifle or pistol but supplements it. Depending on the rules the shooter could choose to shoot some pistol and some rifle targets with the PCC. On some stages the shooter might elect to shoot only rifle or pistol targets with the PCC. The choice is up to the shooter and adds to the fun of solving the stage. Because a PCC can safely be used to shoot rifle, pistol or shotgun targets it makes a fun gun to shoot targets under 100 yards. Doug I get it. And I agree, PCC's are fun. I just think it's dumb as hell in 3 gun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NickBlasta Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I always find it interesting, every match I've been to that allows PCC, the RO's will ask the squad " anybody shooting PCC?" squad "No" RO " GOOD! " EVERY stage, EVERY RO I'm not against it at all, but I certainly understand the dislike with the added responsibilities on the RO's "are you ready, standby", (beep)->supervise shooting stage->"if you are finished unload and show clear""if clear open action" please explain the added responsibilities? Different COF, different targets, or different engagement of same targets, That's just the MD needlessly complicating the stages. You don't have to balance the PCC against other guns because it's its own division, just use the PCC rules that already exist for this purpose. OK, we have 4-5 stages with rifle targets at 200-600 yds, how many PCC guys will complain about the 60-120 seconds of penalties on those stages? They're all shooting the same match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightops Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 No, it isn't a 4th gun, it is just its own division, where you need a pistol, a shotgun, and a PCC. Paper = two hits anywhere or one in center scoring zone with pistol, or rilfe, or once with slug Clays static or aerial = bird shot only falling steel = bird shot, pistol, or PCC (can't use rifle caliber here) Max target distance 100 yards, it is great for bay type ranges. If you just have to stick in some even longer stuff, stick a reduced sized target just for PCC at 100 yards. They don't slow down the match, typically their times are faster than practical/tacops because they spend less time loading the shotgun or banging away with pistols at distant steel. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 12, 2016 Author Share Posted June 12, 2016 It seems the concept is so radical as to even defy explanation. I can see now it would have been better if this discussion was started by someone else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RiggerJJ Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 (edited) Some local matches with nothing but 50x25 yard bays, sure. (I wouldn't be doing 3gun there thou, as a shooter or MD) or even a bigger match, advertised as a pcc 3gun match. Again, I would not attend, not my cup o tea... But at a traditional 3gun match (such as RM3G) not unless it's incorporated into Trooper Division. Some if not all Ironman Troopers used the pcc, but still had to haul around a 223, (and maybe even a precision rifle if they so choose). Thus making it a 4gun match like I said earlier. Generally in my mind they have no business being in a traditional 3gun match. I have enough work to do putting up targets for the normal 3guns, let alone adding another set of targets for another division that will probably have only 10 or less participants. but I am old school... jj Edited June 12, 2016 by RiggerJJ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Leave PCC in USPSA, where it belongs.+1...and Trooper Division. Agreed. But I don't mind matches and groups trying it out in an expanded role. If used in 3gun, stage designers, IMHO should still require a good amount of pistol only targets. If you do not need pistol, it is not 3Gun. A PCC and precision rifle 2Gun match would be fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 Observation time yet again. You are all calling a 16" barreled 9mm a carbine, yet you turn right around and call that very same barrel length a rifle when it is in .223. As for bringing it into 3-gun, nothing is stopping anyone from shooting a big 3-gun match with one as it stands right now. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkCO Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 I shot a Marlin Camp9 in 3Gun my first year, so maybe Retro Kurt?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted June 12, 2016 Share Posted June 12, 2016 See you were far ahead of your time......relativly speaking of course. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StealthyBlagga Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) ... You are all calling a 16" barreled 9mm a carbine, yet you turn right around and call that very same barrel length a rifle when it is in .223 ... The original "carbine" was simply a full-size military rifle design that had been shortened for cavalry use. I think the term should only be used if you are shooting it from horseback Edited June 13, 2016 by StealthyBlagga Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stlhead Posted June 13, 2016 Author Share Posted June 13, 2016 If we call it a pistol caliber pew pew maker will that be OK? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) Observation time yet again..... Have you ever noticed that most proper British people say and spell "cavalry" correctly? When I hear people say "calvary", I want to whop them with a Spencer rifle (notice I didn't say "carbine", as they made both, and in the same cartridge (similar to the m-16 / m-4 conundrum that we face here)). Notice the correct use of nested parentheses...... ericm Edited June 13, 2016 by ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jlane21034 Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 Eric, You just blew my mind. Never took the time to realize the difference. Of course, I am from the south. You actually CAN lean stuff from this forum. Amazing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ericm Posted June 13, 2016 Share Posted June 13, 2016 (edited) Speaking of mind blowing, has anyone ever seen or owned a 20" 9mm Ar-15??? Now, that would be a RIFLE!!!! (or not...really) ericm P.S. Just playing with Ballistic Explorer: A 124 gr @ 1600 FPS, 125 YD zero, 2" maximum mid-ordinate, would be 14" low at 200 YD and still be supersonic. Edited June 13, 2016 by ericm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JOThompson Posted July 7, 2016 Share Posted July 7, 2016 Been contemplating a Glock-compatible AR15 lower. Will wait and see how this turns out first. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JAF1680 Posted September 20, 2016 Share Posted September 20, 2016 It looks like OPCC will be shot at 3 Gun Nationals this year. Should be interesting to see how it goes. Some of the RO's have not been overly happy with it in smaller matches this year and it does require some extra thought form Match Directors but I think it is fun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wgj3 Posted October 12, 2016 Share Posted October 12, 2016 It's fun, but has no place in a "real" 3-gun match. As a 4th gun, sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AFguywhoshoots Posted October 14, 2016 Share Posted October 14, 2016 I disagree with it has no place in a 3 gun match. We had an outlaw match this year where we allowed PCC to run it an unlimited class. Basically it was run what you want for that class. Lots of guys had a blast with it and it mostly replaced the pistol shots and a few shotgun targets. We have also embraced it at the local match level and get a few shooters who shoot it every month. It is a fun option, but most stages you will still need 3 guns to shoot at our matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 On 6/11/2016 at 7:38 PM, Dr Mitch said: Leave PCC in USPSA, where it belongs. Too be fair, if you're talking pistol matches, it really doesn't belong there either Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Dr Mitch Posted October 15, 2016 Share Posted October 15, 2016 It's already there, and it's already badass. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 16, 2016 Share Posted October 16, 2016 It isn't DVC!!!! They are no more accurate than on open pistol....the "D". They certainly aren't powerful....you can have a 308 the same size....."V"! They can be fast, but no more so than a well presented pistol..."C"....so they are not "badass"...Maybe halfass. I am waiting for someone to show me their favorite PCC Elk carbine......epic fail Dr. Mitch!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jrswanson1 Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 (edited) On 10/16/2016 at 0:06 AM, kurtm said: It isn't DVC!!!! They are no more accurate than on open pistol....the "D". They certainly aren't powerful....you can have a 308 the same size....."V"! They can be fast, but no more so than a well presented pistol..."C"....so they are not "badass"...Maybe halfass. I am waiting for someone to show me their favorite PCC Elk carbine......epic fail Dr. Mitch!!!!! Available in 10mm: http://www.tnwfirearms.com/product-p/asrx-cplt-xxxx-xxxx-xxxx.htm Also, the Rossi 92 was available in 454 Cassul. Edited October 17, 2016 by jrswanson1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kurtm Posted October 17, 2016 Share Posted October 17, 2016 So JR are you proposing to shoot a major 3 gun match with a Rossi remake of the Winchester model 92 in 454 Cassul?? Or an AR type platform in 10mm with hot ammo?.....although I got to admit the Rossi would indeed make a fine close range Elk thumper. Don't forget that several wags have built 45-70 revolvers, and there are 308 pistols out there as well as even larger cartridges. That doesn't necessarily make them practice nor even invited to a pistol match, but as far as I know you could shoot any of them in a major 3-gun match right now....with absolutely no need to "integrate" them into the match as is. Which is my point right now, and before. NOTHING IS STOPPING A PPC IN A MAJOR 3-GUN NOW! WE don't need any special dispensation for the platform, nor any silly new rules! The other point of my post was to mess with my amigo Mitch, who is known to show up and drink "rifle sized beers" in my shop occasionally after matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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