Para p16 good or bad?

[Merlin Orr]

Did any of you see the shoot off @ FB3G? It was sponsored by FN (SLP), LaRue (rifle) & Para supplied the pistols. I believe Bruce Piatt had 4 re-shoots due to para malfs. Now, I am sure it isnt anything a gunsmith couldnt straighten out. It ought to be understood most guns need tweeked.

Any and every gun SHOULD have a break in period. The guns used in the shoot off at FB3G were brand new, unfired out of the box. Should have had a few hundred rounds fired through them before they went into a competition. When they were oiled up they ran OK and the shoot off was completed.

A factory Para's does not have as high of quality internals as an S_I and therefor they do not run as long before component(s) replacement is required. They also cost less than 50% of what an S_I gun costs. I have had several and found them to be good guns...for the money.

You pay your money and take your chances.

Just my .02.

[Bearcave]

Brownell's is out of stock. Just had my extractor go south on me yesterday. Had to leave the match. Although this 16-40 has been very reliable I think it is time to replace it with something else. I'm currently thinking of replacing it with a Tanfo Limited. what do you think?

Art

EGW makes a bushing that fits their 1911 extractor to the Para power extractor hole. This will remove the power extractor hassle from your life.

Made my own bushing for my P18 and used a Caspian extractor. Gun has not had a issue in 2000+ rounds since.

P16-40, Internals are mostly standard 1911 except for trigger and magazine release. Those two have after markets parts avaible. If you can find a used one with all the work done and magazines you can have a great gun for the money.

Barry

[Beretta Lover]

Brownell's is out of stock. Just had my extractor go south on me yesterday. Had to leave the match. Although this 16-40 has been very reliable I think it is time to replace it with something else. I'm currently thinking of replacing it with a Tanfo Limited. what do you think?

Art

If a Tanfo is a realy close copy of a CZ I would probably look at shooting a CZ 75 SA or if you were willing, a CZ Shadow in production.

If you were going to shoot a CZ in production, you could also consider a Beretta, IMHO the handling of a CZ75 and a Beretta are pretty close

[STIGUY]

Thank you for your input,

I have been looking at a highly moded one, in my search I read on the 1911 forum some nightmares with para and its customer service. This would be my first high cap 1911, as well as my entry into "limited".40 cal, so I did not want to experiment, nor get frustrated with a gun that proves to be a liability.

Before this gun showed up, I had been keeping an eye out on a clean x-five in .40, knowing from my carry guns they are well built (they are also more cost).

Since on this site the majority are shooters, and competitors at that, I thought I would get more accurate info on these guns.

I know what you are saying people's preferences in brands, I have also noticed that top shooters with whatever brand have had to have them massaged to make them run well. So you are correct my friend, I have as well been beaten by masters yielding "lesser guns".

Customer service.....wow....never have experienced anything like theirs. Have dealt with Rem and Winchester also and this company is the worst. And that's the thing putting parts on these guns make problems. Smiths (atleast in Dallas) do not like or want to work on them and then when they do they F**k them up and you have to deal with Para USA..... I would scrimp and save and buy an STI as I did. GOOD LUCK!

[bubbadoc]

I have had good luck with Para's in the past. Just lucky I guess. Swapping internals as needed is easy. Biggest comment I have heard from some is the weight/ size of the grip as it is a little larger than a S_I. Personally I have large hands and even use an arched MSH on either to make it fit so no issues.

[hueycrew]

I bought my P16-40 Limited (stainless) used a few years ago for $500. Came with 5 high cap mags and two 10 rounders. I'm not a high volume shooter, maybe one match and some practice. Probably 3k since I bought the pistol. I haven't had any major issues however, a couple things came up. Ejector came loose and I had to locklite the guide rod together.

Only modification was to replace the front sight with a Dawson FO.

I've detail stripped the pistol twice. Nothing out of the ordinary that I can see. Other than routine cleaning its been trouble free for me.

I shoot a fairly light load. 180g lead, 6g Power Pistol. Never been chrono'd

-huey

[Whitefish]

I am trying to get some information on p16-40 limiteds. The good , the bad and the ugly before I look for one to buy.

I have noticed the para forum kind of quiet. So what is going on?

I have a P-16 that I purchased back in 1996, pre-dating even the P-16 Limited. I had the gun reworked with beavertail, Brown ambi's, weld on Guncraft magwell, Bomar rear, new front sight, STI for Para trigger, Brown hammer, sear, and disconnector, Brown extractor, and Brown mag release. All of this pre-dated even Para's wonderful invention of the power extractor It drove me nuts breaking links and slide stops at first, even after all that work. Welding up the lower barrel lugs and re-fitting the barrel finally cured that problem. It turned out the frame and the barrel were both in spec, just opposite sides of tolerance. I finally took the grips off and used step tape instead to reduce the grip size. All of this so that I could squeeze 21+1 rounds in the gun using Grams basepads and guts with the Para mags. After all that work, the gun was still running after 12 years of use, but I just opted to have a new slide and BarSto bull barrel fit to the frame to extend the life of the gun. It was time. So . . . I could have purchased an S*I to begin with given the money spent on the original P-16, but what would have been the fun in that? Note that somewhere in the interim, I did eventually purchase a Brazos SC Limited gun in 40. Take from this lengthy answer what you will.

[fastarget]

Whitefish and gents,

first, happy holidays. second after reading and rereading your posts , the conclusion is that the paras are entry guns with some changes required for high volume and comp shooting. By the time all the work is done a finer example from Dawson, Brazos or others could have been purchased.

Personally and after considering your inputs, my search now has shifted to something already refined.....a nice used custom or a Brazos.

your time and experiences was greatly appreciated, and will probably save me ammo funds in the long run.

[Beretta Lover]

Did any of you see the shoot off @ FB3G? It was sponsored by FN (SLP), LaRue (rifle) & Para supplied the pistols. I believe Bruce Piatt had 4 re-shoots due to para malfs. Now, I am sure it isnt anything a gunsmith couldnt straighten out. It ought to be understood most guns need tweeked.

FWIW

I was in the crowd and I also saw the POs hanging up (with like 200 other people). I also was suprised that new, test fired guns were not provided. Maybe that was their commitment to showing how a NIB Para runs well (?)

The Wright brothers crashed a few airplanes too though.

I think we are kidding ourselves if we expect a NIB wide body to run flawlessly without tweaking. I havent ever had the experience of getting a NIB wide body to run out of the box. I have had a few NIB single stack guns need help too.

Im not defending anyone BTW but in all fairness pretty much every new 1911 I have bought has had need of TLC (except one $600 Kimber and a Taurus).

I think the FN SLP shotgun hung up once if I remember correctly.

The supressed ARs ran fine though

[paul gilman]

I have been shooting a para p-16 for 12 years and at first it was unreliable, but this was back when all of the 4o's in 1911 form where not the most reliable fire arm. after learning to long load the ammo and making a few adjustment the gun is totaly reliable and accurate. I shoot a load that makes 175 power factor and the brass shows no pressure signs and is easy to reload.

I have seen both STI and SVI have to go back to the factor for repairs.

[Boyd]

Did any of you see the shoot off @ FB3G? It was sponsored by FN (SLP), LaRue (rifle) & Para supplied the pistols. I believe Bruce Piatt had 4 re-shoots due to para malfs. Now, I am sure it isnt anything a gunsmith couldnt straighten out. It ought to be understood most guns need tweeked.

I'm pretty sure Bruce Piatt shoots Caspian stuff and has done some incredible things with this brand. Bottom line: all guns hang up. I made GM with a Para. It's like all other guns in the 1911 platform, they need dedication. I've got 90K through my P-16 and it is still my favorite USPSA gun. I've had barrel lugs shear off, mags fail to work etc on every kind of USPSA gun. There does seem to be odd animosity towards the Para among a lot of shooters. TGO also shoots a Para-like gun and between TJ and TGO, the "Para" platform has proven to be pretty successful.

I find it funny when some folks look down on a gun based upon brand before the buzzer even goes off.... (I guess it gives us something to talk about instead of shagging brass)

-MB

[waktasz]

I like mine. Only issues I had were when brand new and a little shining up of the barrel ramp and breach face made it 100%.

EGW tweaked it a bit and it is an even better shooter now.

[Aristotle]

I finally took the grips off and used step tape instead to reduce the grip size...

I've seen people do this in picture, and am tempted to do it myself, except I noticed that there are little tabs behind the grip panels that cover the trigger bow, etc. does leaving them exposed have any adverse affects? It would seem an open door for grit to get into the trigger channel. Is this just a non issue? I'd love to shed the grip panels and just have grip tape.

[Whitefish]

I finally took the grips off and used step tape instead to reduce the grip size...

I've seen people do this in picture, and am tempted to do it myself, except I noticed that there are little tabs behind the grip panels that cover the trigger bow, etc. does leaving them exposed have any adverse affects? It would seem an open door for grit to get into the trigger channel. Is this just a non issue? I'd love to shed the grip panels and just have grip tape.

Guncraft manufactures a narrow "filler" strip that covers the tab/void left without the grip panels and just fits in the little angle at the back of the butt or at least they used to. I had the Guncraft parts installed to be on the safe side, but that was years ago and I don't know it they still make the part. I've had no issues with the trigger or internals over the years. I've since changed to AGrip to cover the grip area rather than step or skateboard tape. I've found it is more flexible and gives me a better feel.

[Aristotle]

I finally took the grips off and used step tape instead to reduce the grip size...

I've seen people do this in picture, and am tempted to do it myself, except I noticed that there are little tabs behind the grip panels that cover the trigger bow, etc. does leaving them exposed have any adverse affects? It would seem an open door for grit to get into the trigger channel. Is this just a non issue? I'd love to shed the grip panels and just have grip tape.

Guncraft manufactures a narrow "filler" strip that covers the tab/void left without the grip panels and just fits in the little angle at the back of the butt or at least they used to. I had the Guncraft parts installed to be on the safe side, but that was years ago and I don't know it they still make the part. I've had no issues with the trigger or internals over the years. I've since changed to AGrip to cover the grip area rather than step or skateboard tape. I've found it is more flexible and gives me a better feel.

Interesting, have any pictures to share with the AGrip? I like the idea of slimming the grip.

[BrianATL]

I finally took the grips off and used step tape instead to reduce the grip size...

I've seen people do this in picture, and am tempted to do it myself, except I noticed that there are little tabs behind the grip panels that cover the trigger bow, etc. does leaving them exposed have any adverse affects? It would seem an open door for grit to get into the trigger channel. Is this just a non issue? I'd love to shed the grip panels and just have grip tape.

It's a non issue always ran mine with just grip tape with no problems.

[sargenv]

I have a Standard model P16-40. The only original parts are the Barrel, Slide, Frame, and grips.. everything else was swapped out.. some things more than once (sear, bushing in front, front sight). With my Cast RN's I can load them to 1.240" with no issues.. with truncated cone bullets I am limited to about 1.190". It will feed factory 1.135" ammo with no issues though and with the 13# recoil spring it fires ammo to just under minor with no issues.

[STIGUY]

OK.....I guess if you buy used and get it cheap enough. I just SOLD mine after something f**kup after I took the mag funnel off. Could not get it to shoot. Sent it to PO who apparently have no respect for their customer's firearms and apparently had to ding and scratch the frame to fix the problem. Alas, I complained and NO RESPONSE. Had already bought an STI Edge and WILL NEVER go back or buy their product again NEW. I will buy their product on the used "cheap" gun market with the expectation that they will have problems.

[Lonnie]

How many rounds through your gun Lonnie? any issues at all?

I broke a firing pin due to lots of dry firing. I also replaced the factory slide stop with a EGW oversized because the factory part would not lock the slide on empy with Mec-Gar magazines. Other than that, no issues at all with it. I have approximately 3000 rounds through it.

[Papa Joe]

I unfortunately have had some of the same issues with regard to service and have read the same thing on there own forum. Hopefully the new location will improve this. Todd Jarrett has always been a wealth of knowledge and assisted me the few times I asked him. If they want to be a bigger part of the sport, maybe they should look at mag sizes(140's and 170's), triggers to name a couple, for the other shooters.

[lucasb67]

Did any of you see the shoot off @ FB3G? It was sponsored by FN (SLP), LaRue (rifle) & Para supplied the pistols. I believe Bruce Piatt had 4 re-shoots due to para malfs. Now, I am sure it isnt anything a gunsmith couldnt straighten out. It ought to be understood most guns need tweeked.

Any and every gun SHOULD have a break in period. The guns used in the shoot off at FB3G were brand new, unfired out of the box. Should have had a few hundred rounds fired through them before they went into a competition. When they were oiled up they ran OK and the shoot off was completed.

A factory Para's does not have as high of quality internals as an S_I and therefor they do not run as long before component(s) replacement is required. They also cost less than 50% of what an S_I gun costs. I have had several and found them to be good guns...for the money.

You pay your money and take your chances.

Just my .02.

+1

... in my opinion there is another question, para HC guns have a steel frame, also caspian and springfields have this choice, now svi and sti can mount this ... to shoot it is a considerable difference

the only thing I hate in a para is the PXT, I don't understand why not a traditional size estractor after one hundred years of good service

[Jim Norman]

You asked about Para P16-40

I have two of these and a P14-45 built into an open gun running 38SC

Regarding the Para.

One of my guns is a Para Limited model that has the original sights, barrel slide etc. I added an S&A Magwell and had a trigger job done. That is it. It runs and I made it to B in Limited with it. I have also a Para that was built by EGW. The only Para parts are the frame and the trigger. I have run about 100k through the pair, probably 80 of this through the EGW gun.

I have had problems and I have had successes. Problem was with feeding after I had the barrel replaced. Looking back I should have realized that the ramp was never cut correctly. Gun would run one particular head at a particular length only. I don’t recommend it, but I cut and polished the ramp with a Dremel and since then the gun has run. It is extremely accurate. It is not a light gun, I am not a small person. Regarding the weight of the Para, some people like a lighter gun, some people like more or less reciprocating weight. The weight of the Para doesn’t bother me, but I might have bought a sight tracker S_I if I were starting over. As it is, the gun runs and it is not what is holding me back from winning or moving up.

You can get higher capacity in a stock Para mag than in an S_I. usually one more round, although there are some people now claiming 21 or even 22 in S_I mags. STI has a contingency program, wear their shirt and win and they give you ‘stuff’. Para has no such plan. There is a crap load of bolt on stuff available for the S_I platforms. Para is a bit more restricted partly due to being non-modular.

In short, if you find a good used gun for a low number, it is probably OK. If you want to build a Para of your own, buy a frame and do it or have it done. Don’t pay a fortune for any old used gun. You can buy a pretty competitive out of the box gun these days as opposed to 10 years ago when you needed to have a gun built to be in the game. A lot of the companies now supply as stock just about everything you need except a lighter trigger.

Someone else said there is a of smoke and mirrors in this game. Give a stock Springfield Single Stack to Robbie and he’ll beat probably 90%+ of anyone out there regardless of the gun they are running. Same goes foe Dave S with a stock Glock or Jerry with a Revo. You do need a good reliable gun. After that you need practice and more practice. And you need to shoot matches. Practice will develop your base skill set, but only shooting in real matches will allow you to perform those skills under the pressure of the competition. You get one chance and one chance only to do it right in this sport. No alibis, no do-overs, no Mulligans.

Jim

[sobrbiker883]

As a fledgling pistol shooter I run a p16.40 PXT Ltd because I picked it up used for under $800 with 4 mags w/Dawson pads, and a Dawson ICE magwell. I'm no voice of experience, but I'm happy with it for now.

It got me out enjoying the sport, and hasn't let me down once I got the recoil spring to match my loads.

I've been running 150SWC loads, but when they are gone I'll be changing, since they need to be loaded long, and I'd like to find a bullet that will work in both my Para and the Sig P226 I just got.

[bobobooie]

I've seen people do this in picture, and am tempted to do it myself, except I noticed that there are little tabs behind the grip panels that cover the trigger bow, etc. does leaving them exposed have any adverse affects? It would seem an open door for grit to get into the trigger channel. Is this just a non issue? I'd love to shed the grip panels and just have grip tape.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Guncraft manufactures a narrow "filler" strip that covers the tab/void left without the grip panels and just fits in the little angle at the back of the butt or at least they used to. I had the Guncraft parts installed to be on the safe side, but that was years ago and I don't know it they still make the part. I've had no issues with the trigger or internals over the years. I've since changed to AGrip to cover the grip area rather than step or skateboard tape. I've found it is more flexible and gives me a better feel.

<!--QuoteEnd--></div><!--QuoteEEnd-->

Interesting, have any pictures to share with the AGrip? I like the idea of slimming the grip.

Like this one? JimJoycecustom.com has them.

Edited January 20, 2010 by bobobooie

[elynch2007]

I bought a new TX1640S which is LDA P1640 Stainless limited, changed the plasic mag button, front sight and added a DP Ice magwell. Using STI for Para mags this gun has ran over 14K rounds with only a couple of jams and no parts have been replaced.

Mags have been alot of the problems for Para's over the years.

Do not send in a gun with aftermaket parts to Para for repairs or it will come back with all new stock parts in it.

Just bought a used SX1640S which is a single action P1640 Stainless limited PXT off of the Forum, installed a DP magwell and skateboard taped then filed the sharp edges off to the grip. Added DP basepads and old style followers to the mags and took it to the range and ran 450 rounds without a single problem.