fastarget Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I am trying to get some information on p16-40 limiteds. The good , the bad and the ugly before I look for one to buy. I have noticed the para forum kind of quiet. So what is going on? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CocoBolo Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 There are a number of top shooters running Para. Mike Vogel shoots a para (pres USPSA), Todd Jarrett. I had this converstion with my Gun Smith. He says that the internals are made of inferior materials and they must all be swapped out to make the gun reliable. Next he says that barrel lock up may or may not be adequate for the sport. Slide to frame can be fairly sloppy but thats a mood point since the sites are on the slide. If the barrel bushing and lock up are good it will shoot fine. In the scheme of things the Para is a lot like the STI eagle, except for the heavier metal grip. More skilled shooters may opt for the Eagle as it is a little lighter than the Edge. Most B and C class shooters will do better with the heavier gun. Used Para's that have had all the work done to them and have all the internals replaced and had replacement barrels fitted could well be an excellent gun and can be inexpensvie, I have seen a number in the $700-$800 range, about 1/2 the cost of a used Edge or Eagle. Lots of stuff in this sport is more smoke an mirrors than actual benefit or need. The Para isn't as socially acceptable as the STI or Infinity but I have been beat by them more than once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Thank you for your input, I have been looking at a highly moded one, in my search I read on the 1911 forum some nightmares with para and its customer service. This would be my first high cap 1911, as well as my entry into "limited".40 cal, so I did not want to experiment, nor get frustrated with a gun that proves to be a liability. Before this gun showed up, I had been keeping an eye out on a clean x-five in .40, knowing from my carry guns they are well built (they are also more cost). Since on this site the majority are shooters, and competitors at that, I thought I would get more accurate info on these guns. I know what you are saying people's preferences in brands, I have also noticed that top shooters with whatever brand have had to have them massaged to make them run well. So you are correct my friend, I have as well been beaten by masters yielding "lesser guns". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bore Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 My P16 has had the trigger and hammer swapped out and the original magazine release was plastic so it was traded out also. The barrel and link is original and it shoots just fine. I have also added a fiber optic front sight and a beveled magazine well. I picked up the gun (barely fired) and all of the parts plus a few magazines with extensions for less than a STI/SVI. I like the weight in my hand and I will continue to shoot it until it completely fails. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
3quartertime Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 If you do some searching for Para information I'm sure you'll get a ton of threads covering them. We recently changed the format of this area of the forum and didn't swap all the older threads because of the number and time required. Again a few searches would be the ticket for some good reading. Personally I've had good luck with Para. Two P16-40's over the last ten years or so. Some internal changes. Extractor, firing pin, firing pin stop, trigger jobs... Different sights, safeties and mag wells. It seems that the guys that try to turn a Para into an S_I end up with enough money in the Para they should have bought an S_I. If you shoot anything enough you are going to beak something. Most of the parts I've listed and changed are fairly inexpensive and if you watch super deals can be had in our classifieds on spare parts. I think S_I envy has resulted in a good many of the Para's ending up being smoking great deals in our classifieds. Most are probably terrific shooters... My .02 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted December 21, 2009 Author Share Posted December 21, 2009 Great info, and positive for a change. Thanks. I realize that some changes will be required, as long as the foundation is sturdy enough. I will look into it further. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta Lover Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 There are a number of top shooters running Para. Mike Vogel shoots a para (pres USPSA), Todd Jarrett.I had this converstion with my Gun Smith. He says that the internals are made of inferior materials and they must all be swapped out to make the gun reliable. Next he says that barrel lock up may or may not be adequate for the sport. Slide to frame can be fairly sloppy but thats a mood point since the sites are on the slide. If the barrel bushing and lock up are good it will shoot fine. In the scheme of things the Para is a lot like the STI eagle, except for the heavier metal grip. More skilled shooters may opt for the Eagle as it is a little lighter than the Edge. Most B and C class shooters will do better with the heavier gun. Used Para's that have had all the work done to them and have all the internals replaced and had replacement barrels fitted could well be an excellent gun and can be inexpensvie, I have seen a number in the $700-$800 range, about 1/2 the cost of a used Edge or Eagle. Lots of stuff in this sport is more smoke an mirrors than actual benefit or need. The Para isn't as socially acceptable as the STI or Infinity but I have been beat by them more than once. The President of USPSA is Michael Voight, and my guess is he is affiliated with Strayer-Voight, Inc or may have been in the past. I also think he shoots an SVI (Strayer-Voight, Inc) pistol not a Para Bob Vogel shoots a Glock and he is a full time LEO. James Dean was an actor. Jimmy Dean makes sausage. We get fringe benefits, not french benefits.... I understand the confusion though (I mean with the sausages) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 I like Jimmy Dean sausage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted December 21, 2009 Share Posted December 21, 2009 (edited) I started shooting USPSA matches with a used Para 16-40 LTD. It was a good gun to start with and was reasonably competetive with other Limited guns after adding Dawson bases on the mags, a fiber optic front sight and a magwell. After I shot it for a couple of years I had a custom STI built and I am very happy with it. The Para sits in the safe now but I have had several offers to buy it. I think the Para is a good gun to start with, but some parts will not last for an extended period of time. I broke an extractor and a guide rod and a friend broke an extractor and a barrel bushing. For under a grand you can have all the stuff to start competing in Limited. Doug Edited December 21, 2009 by Doug H. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lonnie Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I have a standard P16 that is superbly accurate with the factory barrel. Additionally, mine will feed factory loaded ammunition without any problems. It seems most STI/SVI .40 pistols require ammunition loaded long to feed reliably. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 How many rounds through your gun Lonnie? any issues at all? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RufDog Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Did any of you see the shoot off @ FB3G? It was sponsored by FN (SLP), LaRue (rifle) & Para supplied the pistols. I believe Bruce Piatt had 4 re-shoots due to para malfs. Now, I am sure it isnt anything a gunsmith couldnt straighten out. It ought to be understood most guns need tweeked. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 usually for an event like that they make sure they have working checked out pieces...........4 reshoots???......... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RIIID Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Para's are and have in the past been a good platform for USPSA. There is still a strong following for them, in some areas there will be a good number of them at matches. In general most have the internals replaced with higher quality parts, the gun will last as long as one of the other popular platforms. Before the S_I platform came about the Para was the frame of choice with many in the sport. Even Springfield makes a copy of the frame for their own high cap platform. For awhile the Para mag was the only one to hold 22 rounds of .40 for Limited. Rich Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
wide45 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 There are a number of top shooters running Para. Mike Vogel shoots a para (pres USPSA), Todd Jarrett.I had this converstion with my Gun Smith. He says that the internals are made of inferior materials and they must all be swapped out to make the gun reliable. Next he says that barrel lock up may or may not be adequate for the sport. Slide to frame can be fairly sloppy but thats a mood point since the sites are on the slide. If the barrel bushing and lock up are good it will shoot fine. In the scheme of things the Para is a lot like the STI eagle, except for the heavier metal grip. More skilled shooters may opt for the Eagle as it is a little lighter than the Edge. Most B and C class shooters will do better with the heavier gun. Used Para's that have had all the work done to them and have all the internals replaced and had replacement barrels fitted could well be an excellent gun and can be inexpensvie, I have seen a number in the $700-$800 range, about 1/2 the cost of a used Edge or Eagle. Lots of stuff in this sport is more smoke an mirrors than actual benefit or need. The Para isn't as socially acceptable as the STI or Infinity but I have been beat by them more than once. The President of USPSA is Michael Voight, and my guess is he is affiliated with Strayer-Voight, Inc or may have been in the past. I also think he shoots an SVI (Strayer-Voight, Inc) pistol not a Para Bob Vogel shoots a Glock and he is a full time LEO. James Dean was an actor. Jimmy Dean makes sausage. We get fringe benefits, not french benefits.... I understand the confusion though (I mean with the sausages) Michael Voigt is President of USPSA. He was a part of starting up Strayer Voigt, but no longer has an interest in the company. He is now with STI, and shoots STI's. Jimmy Dean was a performer before he started the sausage company. Sara Lee now owns Jimmy Dean sausage, and has booted Jimmy out. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trail3 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I live in California, so my choice is limited for a pistol. Had been shooting a Glock 35 but wanted a gun with some more weight. Para 16 is one of the few choices I could make. Had trigger job and parts replaced, changed sights, springs, mag release, mag well, ambi safety. My gunsmith did a great job. Really liked the new pistol. Only one problem is that it did not like factory WWB ammo like the Glock did. Switched to Atlanta Arms Ammo 40 long and gun runs great now. I use the gun in IDPA ESP and USPSA . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Big Bore Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 My P16 shoots factory length ammo just fine. I started shooting it using a shitload of .40 loaded for my Glock 35 without any issues. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Doug H. Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 I used to buy the 100 Round value packs at Walmart 10 at a time till things got bad and the prices almost doubled. My 16-40 Limited loved the WWB ammo and I never did find anything it would not run on. Not a picky gun from my experience. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fullauto_Shooter Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 My P16-40 has well over 100K rounds through it - pretty much all the internals were changed out when I bought it used. Since then, I've had a smith do minor adjustments and repairs a couple times, but it's been exceptionally reliable. Just keep the springs fresh and it runs like a top. I should mention that the frame developed a hairline crack a few years ago but this hasn't affected function in any way. Doug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fuzzysights Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Fastarget, I am not sure where you are in the Rocky Mt region but if you are in Denver you are welcome to check out my Para. I had a very good experience with their customer service department. Remember who was the first company to design and manufacture a double stack .45. I think that you find a lot of the negative comments come from people that do not own the product. You can not compare a stock P16 to a tricked out SxI gun that has been hand built with high end parts and cost about triple what the Para sells for. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
fastarget Posted December 22, 2009 Author Share Posted December 22, 2009 Hi Fuzzy, I am in grand junction at this time, but would like to be in contact when I go to Denver. Well, I agree with you, as long as parts are available and you can sutstain the gun and it stays reliable that is all good. Even all the S brands have issues, all things mechanical do every once in a while.........I am to assume that most internal parts, exstractor etc are 1911? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Trail3 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Glad your guns ran on WWB. What surprised me was how many do not after reading about the problem on this fourm. Got a lot of great information here. Really it was a easy fix, saved me a lot of money and time having a gunsmith try to figure the problem out. Also my Para has to old style extractor not the new PXT or what ever they call it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beretta Lover Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 the Para power extractor is available from Brownells for $100. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
satx40 Posted December 22, 2009 Share Posted December 22, 2009 Brownell's is out of stock. Just had my extractor go south on me yesterday. Had to leave the match. Although this 16-40 has been very reliable I think it is time to replace it with something else. I'm currently thinking of replacing it with a Tanfo Limited. what do you think? Art Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 23, 2009 Share Posted December 23, 2009 Michael Voigt is President of USPSA. He was a part of starting up Strayer Voigt, but no longer has an interest in the company. He is now with STI, and shoots STI's.Jimmy Dean was a performer before he started the sausage company. Sara Lee now owns Jimmy Dean sausage, and has booted Jimmy out. Where in the world is Matt Burkett? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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