Do you feel you are are good shooter?

[lugnut]

I've been very active in USPSA and IDPA shooting this year... prior to this year I'd done mostly just IDPA somewhat casually. I've tried to step it up more this year and I guess I'm doing ok- I've certainly achieved many of my short term goals. The thing is the more I shoot the more I feel I have so much more to learn! Now in general I'm pretty confident in my shooting skills (most of them anyway) but when it comes to match time I think there is so much I need to improve on! I know I've improved.... but it really doesn't feel like it. Sometimes I just know how to break down a stage... sometimes I feel like I'm doing it with two left hands and feet! I like to feel a rhythm during a COF but sometimes it just doesn't feel good enough... I almost always think that I should have done better than I did.

Anyone else feel similar? Are you always pleased with your performances?? or do you analyze everything on the way home from a match thinking about how you could/should have done better?

[short_round]

do you analyze everything on the way home from a match thinking about how you could/should have done better?

For at least the first 10 years or so, if I wasn't dry-firing, practicing, loading ammo, or working on my blaster, I was thinking about shooting.

This probably sums it up for a lot of people here.

[JimmyZip]

No,

Better than all my non-shooting friends? By a mile.

As good as most of my shooting buddies? We will know after the season is over.

As good as I'd like to be? Never happen. Improvement should be a way of life.

When a GM sees me shoot one day and says that I'm good, then I might begin to feel I have acheived some semblance of accomplishment. When I reach C I will think I am, for me, mediocre. When I reach B, I will feel I'm getting there. When I am A, and can perform at that level regularly, I will probably feel I'm almost there. When I am M I will be happy. When I am GM, then I can rest a little and bask in my accomplishment.

[Sarge]

do you analyze everything on the way home from a match thinking about how you could/should have done better?

For at least the first 10 years or so, if I wasn't dry-firing, practicing, loading ammo, or working on my blaster, I was thinking about shooting.

This probably sums it up for a lot of people here.

Well I will certainly never be another Brian Enos. But for those of us a little closer to mere mortals in the sport I can tell you I have alot of other things to think about besides how well I did in a match on the drive home. I have a demanding job, two kids in college, etc. Basically I have a busy life of which shooting this sport is a part of.

I don't live near enough to a range to practice in huge amounts but I shoot a match of some kind most weekends during the season. I am also only in my first year of shooting USPSA. I feel I have improved alot, especially in course management. My times have gotten better for sure and my accuracy has improved with the help of load experimentation and actually shooting quite a bit. BUT, my classification has not budged one bit, but then again it has only been a season and not all that many classifiers are shot week in and week out unless you hit on an all classifier match which I did early on. So that bothers me very little.

For me the proof is in the pudding when just one other shooter makes a little comment like, "smooth run" or I hear alot of "Two Alpha" while being scored. I guess I could say I have progressed to the point of not liking Delta's or Mike's to show up on my scorecard. And on good days not alot do.

I played golf for alot of years and it was very similar in progression. I can remember breaking 100 then 90, then being able to break 80 unless I really had a bad round. It took years to get there and each level had it's own specific hurdles. It seemed like the better I got the harder I had to work. But in the end the ball went where I wanted it. And shooting in the 70's sounds really really good to alot of people but it will never win you anything beyond a local club tournament. I think I will get pretty good at this game eventually but it will take time. I am having alot of fun as well. But like I said, I will certainly never be another Brian Enos.

[CocoBolo]

I recently shot the nationals. I did a good job of taping targets and resetting steel, that I am sure of. The thing that I noticed was no one seemed to be smiling, but when it was over everyone seemed to be smiling. I shot poorly, but how did I measure that. I have a 49% average but I only shot 39%. The root cause of that was performance anxiety. See articles on Gray Guns web site. There were 10 or 12 shooters gathered at a truck near mine and we started a converstation. I asked the question was anyone happy with the way they shot the match, not a single one could say yes.

It is said that expectation is the mother of all disappointment in our lives and that comparing ourselves to others is the root of most unhappiness. This is a tuff game to master and it takes time more for some of us, the path to getting better is Dry fire and practice, the harder we work at it the quicker we will get there provided we do it right.

If your average is climbing on the classifiers then you are improving. Each match is unique to its self I have shot 65% in a match and I have shot 25% in a match one catered to my strengths and the other had a lot of long range difficult shots that I couldn't make, so I practiced long distance shooting now its not a weakness.

Got to go dry fire.

[j1b]

I've been very active in USPSA and IDPA shooting this year... prior to this year I'd done mostly just IDPA somewhat casually. I've tried to step it up more this year and I guess I'm doing ok- I've certainly achieved many of my short term goals. The thing is the more I shoot the more I feel I have so much more to learn! Now in general I'm pretty confident in my shooting skills (most of them anyway) but when it comes to match time I think there is so much I need to improve on! I know I've improved.... but it really doesn't feel like it. Sometimes I just know how to break down a stage... sometimes I feel like I'm doing it with two left hands and feet! I like to feel a rhythm during a COF but sometimes it just doesn't feel good enough... I almost always think that I should have done better than I did.

Anyone else feel similar? Are you always pleased with your performances?? or do you analyze everything on the way home from a match thinking about how you could/should have done better?

I believe the feelings you express are consistent with a lot of things. The more you do it, the more you know you have more to learn.

I honestly believe the answers lay within the over 1 million posts within this forum. We read about seeing. We read about trusting. We read about developing thoughts and ideas on both how to excel more and screw up less. It's all in here.

Even the ideas you've expressed about how a stage feels. We all love those stages where it just feels like a hot knife slicing through butter. And we've all had those stages that feel as smooth as 60 grit sandpaper. And honestly, we've all experience how one or two of those "smooth as butter" stages didn't cut the mustard like we'd thought and how some of those "ultra coarse" stages wound up much better than expected. Proving that in essence it is the shooting that matters, not how we feel about it. Just how we do it.

In terms of how I personally address performance, well, let's just say I'm critical. Of everything. Always. It would be rare for me to ever not contemplate what could not have done better, or to be disappointed in missed opportunities. To the extent that even in matches where the outcome was what I wanted, I question if so and so had shot better I wouldn't have been so lucky. And I need to get better.

But that piece honestly falls on the goals of the shooter. If the goal is to be better than most of the population then I dare say you are likely already there. If the goal is to beat everyone in your class at the local match, then there's always going to be more work to be done. If the goal is to win nationals one day, then I'm going to assume the work is never ending - haven't accomplished that one myself

Do I feel like I'm a good shooter? Yeah, I guess so. In so much as I think "good" is just that . . . good. I know I'm not the shooter I want to be, in many ways. And primarily I know I'm not a great shooter. So in that light yeah, I'm ok. But alas, there is much work to be done.

Jac

[iainmcphersn]

I tend to place in the top 50% of matches I shoot so I guess I am good, IE: better than average. I do know that I am not as good as I can be and my direction and performance are due to my choices and focus.

I can usually tell what went wrong on the last stage but try not to carry the knowledge as guilt and run myself down before the next stage.

[G-ManBart]

I'd say that I rarely think I've shot as well as I possibly could and I analyze everything about a match, or even practice, so that I can build on the positives and come up with a plan to work on the other areas. I have had stages where I know my shooting was right at the limits of my ability to call shots and transition, and I've had stages where I also executed the plan exactly the way I wanted to, but even if both of those are in place I'll usually find something in every stage that could have/should have been done better or differently. Even for the best it's hard to really have a perfect run except on something like a really short classifier.

If someone asked me I'd say I was pretty good, but not great....and working on it!

[Duane Thomas]

Yeah, I'm pretty good. Not to sound completely modesty challenged (I hope), but that's the truth. I'm not nearly as good as I will be, however. Once you become content, you might as well pack it up.

[CHA-LEE]

Duane makes a very good point. If your main long term goal is to make X classification or win X match, then once you achieve that goal your desire and drive to get better will quickly dry up and you will lose interest.

I think a better question is to figure out what the secret formula is on keeping yourself focused not only on the current performance goals but also having the ability to keep moving the next goal further down the path of perfection.

Really think about this concept of the never ending strive to improve performance. The top shooters in the world must have a very unique personal performance judgment mindset in order to not only continue at the level they currently are but to also continually strive to get better as well. A single great example would be Rob Leatham. He has been shooting and winning pretty much everything for DECADES!!! After multiple decades of competition shooting, millions of rounds fired, and probably tens of thousands of matches attended what does he have to prove to himself anymore much less anyone else???? Paycheck aside, there has to be some seriously interesting motivational thought processes going on in his head to not only keep him interested in shooting but to also continually strive to stay competitive in the ever changing world of competition shooting.

I would venture to say that if you asked any of the top shooters if they were a “Good Shooter” they would have a reply to something of the effect of “Not good enough” as there is always something or someone that can do whatever skill better, faster, more efficient, etc.

Do I feel like I am a “Good Shooter”? Sometimes I feel like I can shoot good or perform well in a match. But I always feel like I could have done better no matter what the performance outcome is. Where that lands me in the Good/Bad/Great/Poor category of shooter really does not matter to me as I know that no matter how “Good” I am able to perform, at any given time, there will always be the next thing to do better. Maybe that makes me simply a “Competitive” Shooter instead of some skill level rating??? I like the sound of that a lot better than some self imposed skill level rating.

Edited October 14, 2009 by CHA-LEE

[lugnut]

I think many of us are similar. The more I improve the more I feel I need to improve and the more I notice that I can do better. The quest never ends...

[calishootr]

I have been a USPSA style shooterfor 20 yrs now, back in the day, when there was a fair sized group oftthe same people traveling to the same matches(like a armed dead-head concert caravan) hehehe I usedtothink of myself as below the average of my friends in that group, buuuuuut at the same time period i was working at an indoor shooting range and dollars to donuts could outshoot everyone who walked thru that door, so its a matter of context really, like now, i dont shootthe 9 matches a month i used to or rabidly practicetill my ams fell off, but i can still hold my own in the top 10 of the matches around here

+1 to Duane's comment on being content....if you are content, then you mite as well pack it in...

[Jake Di Vita]

For what it's worth, the real work starts once you hit GM.

[Loves2Shoot]

For what it's worth, the real work starts once you hit GM.

+1

Good is a subjective term, so the better you get the higher the bar goes as your definition and understanding of what good is changes.

Anyone can think they are good, because they can lower the bar as low they want to also. Years ago at my first action pistol match, I thought I was good, I was very wrong, as I had no clue what good was.

Having as much work as we've had over the last three years and having our first child, I don't take the time I used to practice, and my shooting shows. I understand what it takes to shoot well and accept that until I dedicate myself to shooting again, I will be "not good." When you don't put in to daily work, you can not shoot on the top edge of your skill and not have very inconsistent performance.

I'm fine with that as I still enjoy making it out when I can. To me that is much more important than worrying about being good or not.

[dajarrel]

I have heard that everything is relative.

Compared with where I started in 2001, I am an excellent shooter.

Compared with what I think I can do, I am a relatively poor shooter.

I don't ever want to stop improving. I think that is where the game wouldn't be fun any longer and I'm not going to play a game that isn't fun. The gains might be small but I'll keep working at it

fwiw

dj

[j1b]

Duane makes a very good point. If your main long term goal is to make X classification or win X match, then once you achieve that goal your desire and drive to get better will quickly dry up and you will lose interest.

I agree that you have to have the passion to improve. I don't agree that once goals are met that things dry up afterwards. I remember at one point in my career my only desire was to win just one match. Heck, I prayed about it. It was all I wanted! Then I won my first match, and in nearly an instant I realized I had been lying to myself for a good little while. Just one win? Who the hell was I kidding? I wanted to win again, and again, and again. Goals change, that's the process. If the goal is to make C and you make C, then a good number will likely shoot for B.

The only reason why Everest is the highest mountain ever climbed is because it's the highest. If there were one higher, I bet there'd be people trying to climb it.

For what it's worth, the real work starts once you hit GM.

Oh, I don't know about all that. It's all work. Just different work. Progress is probably harder. But if you've been a C shooter for 3 years trying to make B is hard. No matter how you slice that pie. Because a few make GM, and that means a different kind of work, doesn't mean the work is harder. I don't pretend I work harder than the guy working construction. Just a different kind of work.

Here's the reality. Making GM means you shoot in the 95th percentile. Keep in mind if you go to nationals and you shoot 95% of the match winner, more than likely s/he could have zeroed a stage and still beat you.

It's all perspective, and is indeed the journey, not the destination, that makes it all worth while.

J

[Jake Di Vita]

From my perspective it was much easier to become a GM then win as one.

[lugnut]

For what it's worth, the real work starts once you hit GM.

That would be a problem that I wouldn't mind having!! Seriously though, I know what you are saying.

With regard to goals... I have different types of goals- short term, mid term and real long term. I feel that if my plans to achieve my short term goals are good I'll get to the mid term goals and then to the long term goals. My goals wll be adjusted as I go and will never end.

My short term goals include- working on specific skills, winning as many club matches as I can, etc.

Midterm goals are to get to A in Production, Master in ESP/CDP with overall wins in division.

Long term is Master in Production.

Funny... we all want perfection and try hard to get it.. but will never get there.

Dave

[pmd]

Funny... we all want perfection and try hard to get it.. but will never get there.

Dave

Dave,

Now that's negative - keep up the hard work and you'll get there.

Heck every time I'm at Harvard shooting I see you there...

[j1b]

From my perspective it was much easier to become a GM then win as one.

I get it.

Keep in mind, I'm a tick aged in the game. When I started, there was no GM. The highest rank was M, which meant 85% scores. And, for the most part, that came rapidly. GM didn't come until I was in Arizona, and improving my game inherently. I don't recall if I was a GM when the class was created, or if it came soon after. Fact is, it simply didn't matter. At the time I was shooting in the mecca of shooting. When GM was created a good portion of the folks I knew and had been shooting with were already there.

In that sense, making GM was easier for me as well. But then again, making GM wasn't, and isn't, my goal then or today.

Again, I repeat this idea of perspective.

I have a GM classification in open. From a numbers perspective, it is simply a fact. Now, I've not shot an open classifier in . . . oh . . . 15 years? Maybe less, maybe more, but who cares. A long time. Am I a GM in open in reality? Probably not.

I currently hold M classifications in limited, production, Lim-10 etc. It's all I shoot anymore.

But that doesn't matter (to me) either. Regardless, I've competed at some good levels in my day. The point is to compete. To raise the game and see where the chips fall. It is with that eye that I view the matter - performance in the match.

Which again leads to perspective and focus and goals.

Are you good or aren't you? It depends. Not on how other's perceive you, but only in how you perceive yourself and the goals or parameters you hold yourself to.

J

[lugnut]

Funny... we all want perfection and try hard to get it.. but will never get there.

Dave

Dave,

Now that's negative - keep up the hard work and you'll get there.

Heck every time I'm at Harvard shooting I see you there...

I'm not being negative. Seriously though.. perfection doesn't really exist in this sport.... and not in most things in life. How would you define it? What would it look like?

[Dan Sierpina]

I'm not being negative. Seriously though.. perfection doesn't really exist in this sport.... and not in most things in life. How would you define it? What would it look like?

Dave,

Perfection is only a perception.

[benos]

I've been very active in USPSA and IDPA shooting this year... prior to this year I'd done mostly just IDPA somewhat casually. I've tried to step it up more this year and I guess I'm doing ok- I've certainly achieved many of my short term goals. The thing is the more I shoot the more I feel I have so much more to learn! Now in general I'm pretty confident in my shooting skills (most of them anyway) but when it comes to match time I think there is so much I need to improve on! I know I've improved.... but it really doesn't feel like it. Sometimes I just know how to break down a stage... sometimes I feel like I'm doing it with two left hands and feet! I like to feel a rhythm during a COF but sometimes it just doesn't feel good enough... I almost always think that I should have done better than I did.

Your thread's title reminded me of a signature I had for a while. Although match stages are not "repetitive" like practice stages - If you don't feel like you are improving every time you perform a repetitive task, you are wasting your time.

You'll start shooting with less doubt in matches once you've removed all doubt in practice.

Also, from your brief opening post - I wonder if you take matches too seriously? If that rings a bell, set a firm resolve to shoot a few matches without caring one bit whatsoever about how you finish.

Just enjoy being there and see what happens.

be

[lugnut]

Also, from your brief opening post - I wonder if you take matches too seriously? If that rings a bell, set a firm resolve to shoot a few matches without caring one bit whatsoever about how you finish.

Just enjoy being there and see what happens.

be

Wow... that would be so hard... really hard. I don't kill myself over them but when I feel that a few poor shots cost me a match win or better place- yeah I have a hard time with that.

Don't get me wrong- when I'm preparing for a stage and/or when the buzzer goes off all I think about is doing what I train to do... not about beating anyone. Matter of fact I often like to squad with people I don't compete with... it just distracts me. But ultimately I DO care about where I finish for sure.

But not caring at all... man I'll try. Either way- I do have fun and enjoy myself thoroughly.

[Neomet]

I am particularly prone to set goals that are high (thanks dad) which can often be translated as unrealistic. I never wonder so much if I am good or not since I realize that is a completely subjective and ill defined term. The frustrations I bump against are if I don't perform to the level that I think I should. The issue with that is I tend to set the "acceptable" bar at my best ever performance when as a newbie B my performances will be inconsistent because that is what happens at my skill level.

I definitely feel like I am improving. All I have to do is look at videos of me 6 months or a year ago to see how far I have come. Am I good? Compared to the general population sure. Compared to the stage shredding, alpha hitting, time crushing guys I squad with every week? Not really. Does it matter as long as I have fun and continue to improve? Not one bit.