Physical Condition In Ipsc

[redmist10]

John,

Are you more in favor of plyometrics rather than weight training or cardio workouts for shooting? Just wondering if I understand this discussion correctly. It seems that the consensus is that weight training and cardio may be good for overall health but of limited benefit for shooting specifically....it stands to reason that if you are in better physical health overall that you might shoot better - all things being equal.

Just curious - thanks for your comments.

Steve

[JD45]

Don't forget that working out also helps most people mentally. I weight train very hard, and gain some muscle along the way, but keeping a clear mind outweighs my puny muscle gains. I don't seriously run, but I need to because runners probably cleanse the brain way more than weight lifters.

Everybody has heard it before but some still don't believe: If you want to get in shape run, jog, walk, climb, hike, bike, swim, ski, and/or lift weights and you will get in shape. That means leave the Ab Master 9000 in the store (more cash for ammo). You will still be able to see it again at any weekend yard sale.

[rhino]

I think that plyometric training is best left to athletes who are:

1. Young

2. In very good physical condition

3. Under direct supervision of a qualified coach or trainer

If your body is not ready for it, the chance for injury outweighs potential benefits, in my opinion.

I remember reading about an elite shotputter (John something) in the early 1990s who was threatening Randy Barnes domination of the sport. One day during training (doing leaps over a tall bench) he blew out one of his quadriceps and was never able to train properly or compete again. That's a guy who was conditioned about as well as a human can be, and it was a career ending injury.

[ChuckS]

lukipsc,

I am not sure if you are located in Praha, but the equivalent of a run/fast walk from the Charles Bridge to the Castle every day should help. Also, a little less pivo may not be a bad idea either.

Dobry Den,

Chuck

[njrich]

gym membership=$350 a year

running shoes =$120

LIFTING THE MUG OFF THE BAR=PRICELESS

[spook]

I notice that the guys in this thread who say physical fitness doesn't matter are in pretty good shape themselves

[carinab]

Since the match was in August, how did you do lukipsc? Which training method did you use?

[Harmon]

i believe what will help folks shoot the most is to have a strong(er) upper body, this will enable you to deal with recoil better. I am in great physical shape, i think i can sill run a mile in well under 7 minutes...

Im six foot three and 165 pounds.. i feel a couple pounds(in my arms) will help dampen recoil, since they move too when the gun is fired.

one thing i have notice is how the lower class shooters(the ones that cant get out of D class) have very little(compared to myself, dad, relatives, ect) strength in their hands and arms. i just got out of being a constuction worker(an iron worker nonetheless) and i tell you that in the time that i did that 50 hours weekly i developed muscles that have benefited me in shooting..(anyone ever run a screw gun for 10 hours daily? and i aint talkin no sheet rock screws, TEK screws...theyll make a man out of ya, or at least your arms )

now i started working in our county jail, my work is EZ and i now do push-ups to keep in shap 100 a nite seems to keep the burn there.

Im still wondering what to do when you run off and leave the RO standing so far away that the shot timer doesnt record the last shot

i would hate to have a reshoot because the RO couldnt keep up

[Ron Ankeny]

Take 2 people with the same skill level. The better conditioned one will win EVERY time.

That's so true and should be obvious, but people reject the notion all the time. Physical agility is a huge part of this game when shooting field courses. Being agile and mobile through a course of fire can't solely be measured by percentage of body fat.

For those of you who think fitness isn't important, wait until you are over fifty, full of arthritis, and your joints have lost full range of motion. You will be singing a different tune.

[shred]

Thinking about the Nationals, just the starts, if I remember right, there were

Two Get-out-of-Bed starts

Two Kneeling-touching-Tire starts

Five Get-out-of-a-Chair starts

Nine stages where a little body-speed could knock seconds off your time before you even fired a shot. Looking at the video, lots of us lost time on those.

[Nik Habicht]

Two Kneeling-touching-Tire starts

Better known as the "where's the fork lift to get me on my feet?" stages....

[spook]

Click the link to read that Matt McLearn thinks Physical Fitness helps him a lot.

Clickity Click

[Flexmoney]

The fitness level required to shoot well at IPSC is about the same as that needed for "sports" like golf and bowling.

Being severly out of shape, or having injuries or joint problems is another thing all together.

[Michael Brown]

While no one NEEDS to be in shape to win in IPSC, it is certainly better to be in shape than not.

Also it seems as though a lot of folks are advocating medium to high repetition weight training. I believe that for a short duration explosion sport like IPSC, you need maximal strength as it is the basis for speed (To witness this fact look at the physique of any Olympic sprinter). If you improve your lower body's strength to weight ratio and you will be incrementally faster and more agile. Actual stride length and other tangible bases of foot speed are largely hereditary but anyone can improve their maximal strength. To do this increase your maximal strength in the back squat or deadlift or pistol (one-legged squat) via low repetitions with no training to failure (1-5 reps without failing on any rep).

An important reason to start lifting heavy is that it takes years to get really strong while you can improve your cardiovascular fitness in a few weeks.

Michael Brown

[Ron Ankeny]

I disagree. Bowling and golf don't require fast twitch fibers and there is no need for cardio fitness either. Bowling and golf certainly don't require getting your butt from point A to point B as quickly as possible. Yeah, you don't need to be all that physically fit to shoot IPSC, but you sure won't be able to run with the big dogs.

[Flexmoney]

I vowed (to myself) never ot get into discussions on fitness on this forum. I'll say this as my final post on the matter...

In my experience, being "in shape" falls well below the technical and mental aspects of our game.

Being in shape is good. By all means, everyone should get into the best shape possible.

[Nik Habicht]

Bowling and golf certainly don't require getting your butt from point A to point B as quickly as possible. Yeah, you don't need to be all that physically fit to shoot IPSC, but you sure won't be able to run with the big dogs.

IMHO most of the time IPSC doesn't require that either. It does require that you get from point A to point B in the most efficient manner possible. I try very hard not to shoot, then run, then shoot some more. Ideally I'm moving most of the time on the clock and either shooting or reloading.....

[Ron Ankeny]

Maybe I am encountering different course design. I don't get it. Last summer I shot a field course that had a 27 yard run from box A to the next available target, then another 22 yard run to the final position. I run into courses with 15-30 yard sprints all of the time. I'll take your word for it, condition doesn't matter when you are running 25 yard sprints.

[Nik Habicht]

Maybe I am encountering different course design. I don't get it. Last summer I shot a field course that had a 27 yard run from box A to the next available target, then another 22 yard run to the final position. I run into courses with 15-30 yard sprints all of the time. I'll take your word for it, condition doesn't matter when you are running 25 yard sprints.

Ron,

In that case I retract everything I said before. Time to beat designers severely about the head with the rule book. A 27 yards stretch of movement should have about a dozen targets --- and some appropriate vision barriers.....

That's truly BS course design.....

[BritinUSA]

Strong Abs will help in posture (and also is a key element when getting up from beds, tables etc.), all leg muscles should be worked, heavy weights can build too much muscle mass and that can have a negative effect on speed and flexibillity.

100+ squats with low weight on the shoulder (30-35 pounds) will help when getting to and away from low-medium height ports.

You need to work on speed so I found that low weights with high reps seem to work better than heavy weights. There are stages that can be found at World Shoots that involve running 25+ yards and heartbeat rate may be an issue for difficult/tight shots at the end of a fast run.

I do about 4 x 30 minute cardio each week and about 5 x 30 weight training and I think it makes a difference.

Hope this helps...

[rhino]

In that case I retract everything I said before. Time to beat designers severely about the head with the rule book. A 27 yards stretch of movement should have about a dozen targets --- and some appropriate vision barriers.....

That's truly BS course design.....

I agree. Gratuitous movement like that is inappropriate for this sport, but we see it all the time. Sometimes it's even fun, but it's not good course design. We've all shot stage where you shoot a bunch of targets, then you have to run a fair distance (more than 10 yards) down range just to shoot one or two more targets behind a barricade.

Being severly out of shape, or having injuries or joint problems is another thing all together.

I think Flexmoney is right on the ... money ... with this.

[Ron Ankeny]

I have been giving this some though and I have come full circle. Flexmoney is right on the mark. I have been looking at physical infirmities, age, and being grossly out of shape as a form of conditioning, because that's where I am right now.

I have only shot a few matches with a larger than "club level" draw. Most of them had some form of gratitious running, sometimes uphill, designed specifically to test physical ability even though the rule book forbids such design. When the guys in top condition get that 2-3 second advantage, it's tough for older shooters to make the time up on the trigger. Yeah, that's a course design issue to be sure, but the issue is out there and great physical shape can overcome the lousy design.

[Dalmas]

I live close to a miltary style obstacle course and run it (weather permitting) twice a week for my overall IPSC training - Endurance, strength & agility will be tested to the max. I like it. Lifting weights is just not me.

[schmitz]

Did some searches on this and other boards,

I'm seaching for training techniques to improve my speed of moving (basic speed/sprint techniques/ efficient moving).

As I'm shooting good points lately, analysing stage-reports teaches me that I'm losing time on transitions from point A to B.

Any suggestions? Just cardio or is there more?

[Michael Brown]

"heavy weights can build too much muscle mass and that can have a negative effect on speed and flexibillity."

This is completely untrue.

Strength is the base for flexibility.

Heavy weights do not build muscle mass. Extra calories, volume, and training to failure (heavy or light) builds muscle mass.

It is not a coincidence that the world's fastest people are incredibly strong. Ask a sprinting coach who reallt knows his/her stuff and they will tell you that the most likely way to gain foot speed is to get stronger without getting bigger. For example Allyson Felix (2004 Olympic silver medalist in the 200 meters) can deadlift close to 300 pounds despite her 123 pound bodyweight. She is also extremely flexible. And no its not just genetics.

Michael Brown