ac4wordplay Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 NROI RulingDoes this help? The link is not working. Link worked for me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 NROI RulingsTitle: Untaped Target Created: 7/07/09 Updated: 7/14/09 Effective: 7/14/09 Rule number: 9.1.4 Applies to: General Ruling authority: Director of NROI Status: Released Question If while engaging targets in a COF, I notice an unrestored target (not taped) and I stop, what would happen? Ruling The RO should give the command, "if you are finished, unload and show clear". At that time, the stage will be scored as shot including misses and FTE's. Should you have shot and continued on and the RO could not determine an accurate score on that target, under 9.1.4 you would have received a reshoot. The RO's responsibility is to be sure that the stage is reset for the next competitor, but mistakes do happen, for a competitor to stop themselves for a Target not taped, only compounds that mistake. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 This is a result of an extended discussion among the RMI crew and NROI. I have my mind right now. Don't stop is all I can tell you. Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 So, I am with Gary. If the shooters run is impacted, then I will issue a reshoot. If not, and I can determine the proper score...then they will get the run they first earned. Actually Flex, Gary said: The first one is, Yes, I have a procedure to attempt to score the target. If I can, then I can, if I can't then there is no reshoot. I don't know if that "no" was suppose to be there or not, either way we have a ruling from NROI now and it allows for a reshoot per rule 9.1.4. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Alan I want my re-shoot lol! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Alan I want my re-shoot lol! hmm, No. An accurate score was able to be determined. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 LOL!!! I know I love messing with ya. So if there is a difference in the caliber of the shooter prior it would be a reshoot? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XD Niner Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 It's good to have written confirmation of the rule and correct procedure on the part of both the shooter and the RO. Gary and Alan, it's even better to know that these types of issues receive serious discussion and consideration at the NROI level. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Alan Meek Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 (edited) LOL!!! I know I love messing with ya.So if there is a difference in the caliber of the shooter prior it would be a reshoot? Depends, If the previous shooter was shooting a .40 or .45 and you were shooting a .355 and you had a miss on the untapped target and the moon is in the seventh house and Jupiter aligns with Mars. Then maybe you could get the reshoot. Edited July 22, 2009 by Alan Meek Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 So, I am with Gary. If the shooters run is impacted, then I will issue a reshoot. If not, and I can determine the proper score...then they will get the run they first earned. Actually Flex, Gary said: Apparently a break-down in communication. Regardless...it's redundant now that we have a ruling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 LOL!!! I know I love messing with ya.So if there is a difference in the caliber of the shooter prior it would be a reshoot? Not necessarily --- shooters shooting different calibers, 2 hits of each caliber on the target = scorable. Two shooters shooting same caliber, all alphas or all charlies probably = scorable. (The hitch would be if the first of the competitors took an extra shot at that target and there were only four hits after the second competitor....) If targets are scored in the same order for every shooter (Nats, some area matches) and the staff is certain there were no extra shots fired by the previous competitor, then the staff could look at the previous competitor's scoresheet to arrive at the current competitor's score by subtraction..... Bottom line -- still requires RO judgment, may be appealed to the CRO and RM. Shooters shouldn't stop themselves..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 Well thanks Mr. Alan Astronomy... LOL Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gary Stevens Posted July 22, 2009 Share Posted July 22, 2009 So, I am with Gary. If the shooters run is impacted, then I will issue a reshoot. If not, and I can determine the proper score...then they will get the run they first earned. Actually Flex, Gary said: The first one is, Yes, I have a procedure to attempt to score the target. If I can, then I can, if I can't then there is no reshoot. I don't know if that "no" was suppose to be there or not, either way we have a ruling from NROI now and it allows for a reshoot per rule 9.1.4. Who in the heck put that "no" in that sentence Gary Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pjb45 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 (edited) The typist put the no in that sentence. The typist was probably distracted by an 8oz curl at the time, occurring with the left hand, leaving the right hand to mischief. Bad right hand, no doughnut. Edited July 23, 2009 by pjb45 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kgunz11 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Nik: A shooter's training and expectations dictate that when running an ipsc course there should not be 8 extra holes in four targets. Since this is a mental game and the expectation is not to see extra holes on target while calling your shot it is impossible to be fair to a shooter being confused by whether he shot those targets or not. Simply put, without all the legal and rule jargon Re-shoot! I definitely will not stop ever again though Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 It was just a fun match! But I def. like to understand the game as much as possible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 Nik:A shooter's training and expectations dictate that when running an ipsc course there should not be 8 extra holes in four targets. Since this is a mental game and the expectation is not to see extra holes on target while calling your shot it is impossible to be fair to a shooter being confused by whether he shot those targets or not. Simply put, without all the legal and rule jargon Re-shoot! I definitely will not stop ever again though I sympathize --- but there's now an official NROI ruling denying a reshoot if an accurate score can be determined.... I've stopped looking for holes in targets..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bill Nesbitt Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I've stopped looking for holes in targets..... If you're looking at your sights you can't see the holes in the target. I can't see that far anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I like to look at the target (spot) so I know where to drive the gun. Then, I'll look at my sights as the gun comes on target. (which should be seemless, and take no extra time) Open shooters look at the target more. Some targets, you just can't help but notice they weren't pasted. I think the call should have went the other way. I do admit to a bias toward the shooter, and not toward match management. I think we are out there for the shooting...not the match production. (But, nobody asked me. ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
al503 Posted July 23, 2009 Share Posted July 23, 2009 I've said this before but I'm hoping that all this makes all of us more diligent in making sure that the targets are pasted and reset. Stuff happens but this situation seems to be very avoidable. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 (edited) I see my sights and I see whats going on around me, it's how I was taught how to shoot an open gun. My eyes track to my next target and my sights follow to where my eyes snapped. The targets were so close you could see every hole. My vision also happens to be 20/15 lol. The reason why I stopped was a mistake and it won't happen again, but it was very disorienting. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RevYnbUZRE8 Edited July 24, 2009 by PINMAN44 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 24, 2009 Share Posted July 24, 2009 As stated keep shooting. At the 2006 Area 3 they had a prop operated by a door, as I charged thru the door I saw it hadn't been set. I kept shooting and during the next reload, I was shooting a Revolver, I asked the RO over my shoulder if he was going to stop me as the prop failed. I didn't take my concentration, much, off of what I was doing and I got the reload done and started engaging targets again before he could even react. He stopped me, and my reshoot came out ok, but if he hadn't I was going on full bore. As in life, charge ahead and don't expect any do overs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 Yup, I won't ever stop again Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
joecichlid Posted July 25, 2009 Share Posted July 25, 2009 pskys2, I remember that stage. The head shots to the left were a little tough but made it interesting. The fact the target had not been reset would have thrown me for a loop, glad to hear you handled it better than others might have. For those who were not there here is an overhead shot of the stage pskys2 is talking about. Joe W. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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