Advice for new open class gun...

[jlane]

I am new to USPSA but looking to start with a bang (no pun intended). I want to buy an open class gun but have just started learning about them. It seems that STI and SVI are the main two...am also deciding between 9 mm vs. .38 super but don't have much time to reload.

Would greatly appreciate advice/discussion about this. Also seems that many buy from custom shop who use STI/SVI frame - not sure why do this vs. just buying something like STI Trubor GM.

Thanks for any input.

-Josh

[XRe]

For your first Open gun, a tuned STI Trubor is a very economical option, and would give you the opportunity to get into Open and learn something about it before considering a custom gun. The GM version really only adds chrome - based on handling them, I recommend to go with the regular Trubor, and have it chromed later, if you want. That way, you can fit the gun to your hand (if you need to have anything dehorned or rounded off to be comfortable), before putting a permanent finish on it.

Either way, you will need to reload to make major PF, unless you want to buy ammo from Atlanta Arms and Ammo (which gets pricey in a hurry).

[Kingman]

for about the same price as a trubor you can buy a custom open gun from at least one smith on the forums.

[bobert1]

I know your new to the sport. Welcome, it's a blast. One of the first pet peeves of many is the mistake some people make by the phrase open CLASS. Open is a DIVISION not a CLASS.

[jlane]

Division...got it and appreciate the education. I'm not big on chrome so I agree the GM doesn't make a lot of sense. I've shot all my life but just not USPSA - thus, I know I'll stick to it and would like to buy a "final" gun that I can continue to customize, as opposed to buying a beginner and then having to build/buy another one later.

Is there much benefit from going through a custom shop vs. buying a top end gun from STI/SVI?

-Josh

[jlane]

Another question is that I don't really intend to get into reloading - I know that it is less expensive but just can't do it now. Would this dictate whether I go with 9 mm vs. .38 super?

-Josh

[al503]

Another question is that I don't really intend to get into reloading - I know that it is less expensive but just can't do it now. Would this dictate whether I go with 9 mm vs. .38 super?

-Josh

There are some real good discussions on 9 v. 38.

If I wasn't planning on reloading, I'd go with the 9. Vendors like Atlanta Arms can load Major powerfactor ammo for you, at a price. If worse comes to worse, you can shoot factory ammo and be scored minor (which is a big disadvantage in open.)

If you go with a factory gun, get it through someone who will tune the gun for nominal price. I recommend Brazos Custom, who is a forum vendor here. Bob will go through the gun and make sure everything is up to par. For a little more, he will do a nice trigger job on it.

There is nothing worse than spending what little time you have trying to practice with a gun that is not 100%.

[RV man]

I bought a 9mm Trubor after shooting USPSA for 3 months. It runs like a top and will run all day on Winchester white box. One man I shoot with had ordered a custom gun two weeks before I ordered mine and I was shooting my Trubor 6 weeks sooner. I hate to wait!!!!

I am fat, bald, and slow, but shooting open division.....I have no class.... is a blast.

I shoot open just like XRe does.....just a lot slower and I miss more.

I hope you have as much fun as I do.

Bill

[Kingman]

The main thing is that a custom gun is normally a bit better fitted. Beddell on the forums also is a custom maker that is right around 3k for a complete gun

[UW Mitch]

I've been happy with my JPL - www.jplprecision.com - it's a bit of a wait right now, but well worth it. I got to test out a bunch of different configs to figure out what I like the best so John could really design me the best gun for my shooting. I'd recommend getting started in USPSA with whatever you've got now, then make buddies with the open shooters and try all of their guns. There are so many factors that go into building an open gun - for the investment it's a good idea to have a sense of what you want (full size/shorty, light slide? heavy magwell? steel mainspring housing?) - if you can determine some of these things at the outset you'll save yourself money in the long run.

Welcome to the darkside as they say.

~Mitch

[davecutts]

This is all good advice; mine would be to shoot as many as you can before you make the big purchase. Most people at a match will be happily to let you shoot their blasters, it helps if they know you, or see you at shooting a few matches (I might have a hard time letting some complete stranger shoot my baby). Also look at some used pistols for a good deal on a starter.

[XRe]

Another question is that I don't really intend to get into reloading - I know that it is less expensive but just can't do it now. Would this dictate whether I go with 9 mm vs. .38 super?

Well, realize that by "less expensive", you're talking the difference between around $120/K and $350/K!!!! You pay for the reloader and associated gear in less than 3K rounds... FWIW...

At that point, if you're intending to shoot major, the ammo cost is the same for .38 Supercomp or 9 Major from AAA. Shooting minor has a pretty big detrimental impact to your score - if you're willing to accept that (and that the gun is not going to drive the same with major PF ammo), 9mm is really the only effective route.

Keep in mind, the last time I priced a tuned Trubor, it was also right at about $3K - but that's with 5 tuned mags, as well (4 140s, 1 170).

There's a wide range of what you get with a full custom gun. In theory, as Kingman says, it should mean better fitment, higher quality parts, top notch accuracy and reliability, and good customer support. Just because its "custom" doesn't mean its good, though. I have seen full custom guns built recently that you could not have paid me to shoot. On the other hand, assuming its fed good ammo, the tuned TruBors seem to be solid platforms.

Of course, if you want to dump a larger chunk of change, it opens up your semi-custom and custom gun possibilities quite a bit.... But, for a first Open gun for a guy who's pretty new to the sport, I'm pretty confident standing by my previous recommendation...

ETA - Mr. Cutts' advice to shoot as many as you can get your hands on is good stuff, too... You can at least get a feel for build, and handling. As a noob to Open, the gun is going to seem to move really fast, and be loud and concussive. It may be hard to get a lot of useful feedback from shooting a bunch of guns, at least in terms of features, etc. But, it'll at least open your eyes to what's out there.

Edited June 26, 2009 by XRe

[CJDOUBLETAP]

I bought a Trubor from Brazos Custom. Bob did the trigger, the fitting, and drilled and tapped the mag button. It will not cost that much more than the stock STI gun since they are cheaper on the Brazos sight.

[Chris iliff]

I shot a used "Competitor" by STI for 3 years. This was the forerunner to the Trubore. I think that the used S*I open gun would be the way to go. But, if you got the $$$ then by all means buy a new one and get your magazines tuned. Trubore is a great start for anyone. As mentioned above, I'd go with a 9mm and seriously consider reloading. IMHO

[CocoBolo]

If you going to shoot factory 9 mm, I would suggest the STI Steel Master. A couple of C class limited shooters here bought Steel Masters they shoot 9 mm Walmart Ammo both made B class in nothing flat and they have been dooing very well in Major and Local matches. Shooting minor will make you focus on good hits and that is a very good thing, without good hits it doesn't matter how fast you are.

Good Luck

[Hi-Power Jack]

Division...got it and appreciate the education. I'm not big on chrome so I agree the GM doesn't make a lot of sense. I've shot all my life but just not USPSA - thus, I know I'll stick to it and would like to buy a "final" gun that I can continue to customize, as opposed to buying a beginner and then having to build/buy another one later.

Is there much benefit from going through a custom shop vs. buying a top end gun from STI/SVI?

-Josh

I bought a TruBor from Dawson Precision a year and a half ago, and another from

Brazos a few months ago, both in 9mm.

The Dawson came with four mags, custom

tuned, but two didn't work. I think it was the mags causing most of the problem,

but I ended up having EGW work on the gun to make it run better - better extractor

and ejector. Didn't really "solve the extraction problems" until I realized it was the

mags. Now it runs very well. I also had the slide lightened, and I believe that

reduced the muzzle lift a little bit, and got a trigger job which was perfect.

The Brazos has been good so far, but I don't have much experience with it - Brazos

wouldn't lighten the slide because "the TruBor was already lightened", and didn't have

time to do a trigger job on it, and I needed it in a hurry.

If you go with a "custom gun", you are going to wait a long time - the TruBor will allow

you to get into shooting it this summer. And, you won't know what you want on the

custom gun - how light should the trigger be, etc.

Not sure how you can "not reload" and shoot OPEN. That was my original idea, and

then I got into reloading major very quickly. HUGE disadvantage to shooting open

with minor loads. Only costs $350 for a Dillon Square Deal, plus you'll need calipers,

tumbler/sifter, and you can reload a week's worth of ammo in an hour. You will need

access to someone in your club who has a powder scale and chronograph, but you

don't need your own - same person can help you reload, too. Stay with the JHP

bullets (not fmj or lead).

If you have a lot of money and want to reload, sounds like the .38 Super is marginally

better than the 9mm, but if not, the 9mm is a blast and a lot cheaper to reload, and

you can afford to shoot the minor loads all day.

Your choice, shoot this year with a TruBor or wait until next year waiting for your

custom gun - I went with the TruBor both times and think it was a good idea. Neither

needed much work at all - only the magazines needed work. Get Brazos or

Freedom Gun to put them together for you unless you are very handy with tools

(I'm not).

Good luck.

Jack

[shred]

I'd look hard at the TruBor and MatchMaster from STI. Buy them from somebody that will do a tuneup/checkup on it before you get it and you could be shooting in a few weeks.

By the time you wear it out, you'll know what you want in a custom gun for the next one

9x19 will get you going without reloading, but you won't stay that way.. everybody I know that tried to do a no-reloading Open setup eventually gave in and bought a Dillon.

[G-ManBart]

Your choice, shoot this year with a TruBor or wait until next year waiting for your

custom gun - I went with the TruBor both times and think it was a good idea.

Wait times for a lot of gunsmiths have gotten shorter recently (I'm sure it's economy driven). There are also a couple of good smiths who aren't the biggest names around (still build great guns) that would probably be able to get the gun to you in two months or so.

If you go with a TruBor, definitely get it from someone like Brazos who will do a reliability package on it for you. If you decide to go 9mm, good, tuned mags are the #1 thing you need to worry about. If/when you decide to get a custom gun built those mags will work just fine in the new gun. Oh, and 9mm tuned mags seem to work just peachy with 38SC so you could even get away with changing from 9mm to 38SC without changing mags. R,

[Harmon]

the matchmaster seems to be pretty enticing.

i would buy SV mags.

9mm major is fine

but nothing wrong with supercomp.

[uscbigdawg]

I whole heartedly agree with XRe in that you get the standard Trubor. As for caliber, it's about six of one and half dozen of the other. Factory 38 Super is a little tough to find but is manageable. Atlanta Arms & Ammo probably loads the best stuff out there with regards to 38 Super and our game, and it's affordable.

For the pistol itself, look at purchasing from one of our forum sponsors:

- CPWSA

- Freedom Gunworks

- Triangle Shooting Sports

- Brazos Custom

Rich

[BSeevers]

Get a pistolsmith or buy one from a pistolsmith.

Learn to reload from somebody who knows how to. There is No choice unless you are rich.

Don't worry about things like 5 ports, slideride, magwells or "stuff". Most is not important til you progress and means very little to winning,but if you have small hands installing a short trigger and shaped grip and magwell could be very important. See first line.

Practice, its how the M's get there.

[Brian B]

I jumped into IPSC 10 years ago with both feet droping $5,000 Canadian on a custom open Para. It has been excellent since with lots of ammo through it. A buddy at the club who is also the police shooting training officer pulled me aside after a match. He offered his opinion which I readily accepted. He explained that I had some poor habits. He suggested I restart my shooting with a production gun, become accomplished with it then return to open. He used the example that most formula 1 race drivers started their careers driving go carts and worked their way up. Therefore I bought a Ruger SR9 for $499.95 Canadian. It has been 100% reliable, accurate and the workhorse of my practice. I used it in 7 IPSC Competitions where I positioned well in the production division. Getting back to basics was, for me a valuable learning curve. I reciently did another shoot using my Open Para and I was astonished at the amount of improvement I experinced. My police instructor friend was right. Good luck and welcome to a great sport.

[matt2ace]

Another question is that I don't really intend to get into reloading - I know that it is less expensive but just can't do it now. Would this dictate whether I go with 9 mm vs. .38 super?

-Josh

If you are not going to reload then you can expect to spend considerably more money for factory MAJOR ammunition. The vast majority of factory ammunition available will only shoot minor power factor. There are very (very)few open shooters who do not reload......I might even venture to say that there are no open shooters, shooting major power factor, who don't reload atleast for practice and local matches.

As for guns....IMHO, you can do MUCH better with any one of several cutomer builders who sponsor and/or participate in the forum. You will spend less (10-20%) and get more than a factory gun.

Edited June 29, 2009 by matt2ace

[mt_goat]

Yeah I'd say start with what you have now, in production or limited. Especially if you're not loading your own ammo.

[jfair]

2 things. 1) Before you plate a gun you need to look at the ROBAR finish. I've been hooked for years. It's pewter colored, slicker than snot on a door knob, and you can clean the gun with a paper towel. 2) Unless ypu're rich get a Dillon press and learn to reload.