Flinch Cure?

[MTBfarms]

Any ideas for getting rid of a darn flinch that I have been fighting for years? About 2 or 3 stages into a match there are those low delta's showing their ugly heads.

[SA Friday]

Dry firing a lot really helps.

Then there is the dime trick. Put a dime on the top of the slide near the front sight and practice pulling the trigger without moving the dime and knocking it off. It will also help with your trigger pull.

A flinch is a mental thing that results in a physical reaction. You have to reprogram your mind to not want to react to the trigger pull.

[ChrisMcCracken]

Repetition, both dry fire and live fire in controlled settings. I had a tremor for a couple years. It started after shooting some +P rounds through my G30 carry gun. Something about the recoil triggered the adrenaline fight/flight part of my nervous system. Then every time I shot a handgun, particularly that gun, I'd get the shakes. Dry fire and shooting more fixed it.

[Aristotle]

A bucket of bullets, a target and a berm.

Load up all your mags, and do as many Bill drills as you can afford.

Repetition is a wonderful thing.

[badchad]

Dryfire never did much for me regarding my flinch. My subconscious knew damn well if there were bullets in the gun or not. Ball and dummy drills did a lot to help me, but it took a lot of rounds down range to sort things out. Also I quit practicing at an indoor range as the concussion of the blast off the safety glass seemed problematic as did dealing with a guy shooting a rifle in the lane next to me.

[FranDoc]

Dryfire never did much for me regarding my flinch. My subconscious knew damn well if there were bullets in the gun or not.

Ditto.

Double-plugging helped. I don't need to do that any more.

Time alone with live fire, at my own pace, helped. The opposite - one-on-one class with a coach who kept the drills moving, so fast that I had to focus past the flinch - also helped.

Just shoot. Focus on the fundamentals, focus on the goals (2 Alpha, 2 Alpha, 2 Alpha ...). You'll get past it.

[Seth]

I double plug also. It made a big difference for me.

[JimmyZip]

Well, here's what my Dad did to me when I was a kid to get rid of the flinching. He loaded my mags with dummy rounds mixed in. Then I shot groups, concentrating on squeezing the shots out and not rushing them. When I could shoot without the flinch when the dummies came up, I felt good to go. I did this for a couple of hours then, I still do this from time to time loading the mags without looking. This gives me encouragement as to what is going on with my trigger control. I now find that I only really get a flinch when I shoot unfamiliar guns. This is kind of funny to me 'cause it doesn't matter if it is a .22 or a .44.

Go figure, I hope this helps.

Jimmy

[Team Amish 1]

MTB,

Dry firing and .22's are great.

Here are a couple ideas, please see if they work for you.

Dryfire: Stand a few feet away from a solid colour wall, point unloaded, double-, triple-, etc.-checked gun at just the white wall. No aim. Get the best possible sight picture and just squeeze the trigger without misaligning the sights until the trigger breaks. When it breaks, keep the gun still for a moment longer.

Livefire: I like to do this with .22's. Place the target far enough away that you have to aim, be it 15, 25, 50 or more yards and shoot 1 shot from low ready or with draw from holster.

Do not allow yourself to aim at the whole target or the whole A-zone but only at the top 1/3 or 1/4 of the A-Zone.

I guess the principle is: Train to aim small and shoot small.

[Flexmoney]

I'd search these forums. I'll bet somebody took some time at one point to put together some words on that topic.

[edgerat]

I have been working on what Brian mentions in the burkett video. Focus on the flinch and nothing else and you can train yourself out of it. I flinch on the first shot it seems and then not after that. Bill drills are a waste of ammo, in my opinion.

[benos]

I'd search these forums. I'll bet somebody took some time at one point to put together some words on that topic.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=82124

be

[MTBfarms]

Thanks for all the help. Ill give everything I can a try. Have to get rid of this darn problem.

[askomiko]

Dryfire

Shooting.

Shooting more.

.44 magnum. .40S&W is nothing then.

Also, double hearing protection helps.

Edited April 2, 2009 by askomiko

[yowser]

We shoot pieces of broken clay pigeons at the 50 or 100 yard burm with the .22 because you used to be able to buy bucket of bullets, not so easy any more. Mostly the 50. It really helps and you can concentrate on wether you are flinching or not.

[MTBfarms]

"Flinch breaker 101". Helped a lot with the dipping on the gun while shooting. One prolbem remains though. I've tried everything to stop the blinking when the gun goes off. I can't call my shots. Eyes ALWAYS close. I double plug and am only shooting a 9mm 1911 (very low recoil). Any ideas??

[Jman]

The force of will. Ultimately you will condition yourself not to. Lots of live fire desensitizes you, eventually. Train hard.

[MTBfarms]

I believe i had a breakthrough the other weekend shooting of all things a IDPA classifier match. Half way through the second stage I broke a shot that was low and to the left. The next thing I know I saw the front sight rise up out of the notch and come back down. I hardly ever see that. Almost always blink.

It really surprised me. I paused waited for the sights to completely settle and broke another shot, the same thing. I actually saw the front sight lift and fall back. For the rest of that stage about 60% of the shots I kept my eyes open, and about 75% on the third stage. My score was not very good but after seeing the sights I went at a snails pace just to watch the sights.

I'm not really sure what made this happen. I have been trying everything. The only thing different I have been doing different is watching the sights of other people shoot. I never blinked or flinched watching someone else shoot, I just kept telling myself if I don't blink watching an open gun then there is no reason for me to flinch shooting minor.

Just thought I would pass this on.

[FranDoc]

The next thing I know I saw the front sight rise up out of the notch and come back down. I hardly ever see that. Almost always blink.

It really surprised me. I paused waited for the sights to completely settle and broke another shot, the same thing. I actually saw the front sight lift and fall back. For the rest of that stage about 60% of the shots I kept my eyes open, and about 75% on the third stage.

Eureka!

You're on the right track.

... after seeing the sights I went at a snails pace just to watch the sights.

(I feel like some hybrid between Flex & Yoda on this, only because it was the mantra I heard all last season ...).

See.

That's it, just 'see'. That's all you can do. Call the shot with certainty, then proceed.

Time, perceived as 'speed', will take care of itself. You'll find ways to make yourself more efficient with experience.

Talk with Kyle when you can; this is better explained in person.

There are a number of other threads on the Forum that explain this is more detail. I'll assemble the list and PM you.

You may also want to look at Burkett's videos, Vol 1-4.

[davecutts]

I double plug. When I started I flinched like crazy. Someone suggested I load up six mags close my eyes and shoot into the berm (get close so you KNOW the bullets are impacting the berm). I started nice and slow feeling (okay it had to be Brian) the pistol go off. Then I would load six more mags and do the same with my eyes open. I did this for months. This seemed to help the/my subconscious mine accept nothing bad was going to happen as I pulled the trigger. I learned to call my shots this way, and by pulling 100% of my attention on the sights. So much easier with a dot, if you have one throw it on and watch what's happening out in front of your arms.

My epiphany came while taking a class, near the end of the day at dusk I started seeing the muzzle flash. I think we shoot 1500 rounds in two days. I had always struggled with blinking of flinching up till then.

While shooting groups I still sometimes blink, however I shot a five round group this week at 25 yards all the holes where touching. In a match or practice I see every movement the dot makes.

[lugnut]

I'm convinced there are two major things that cause flinching bad- the noise and fatigue. Indoors is the worse.. and I notice when I'm tired at the end of a long practice is sometimes happens. I should double plug but then I can't hear anything! I'm sure I flinch still on occasion but most of my shots go in the general direction I aim these days. Sometimes the 2nd shot goes high.. but that's another thing I'm working on.... it never ends. Perfection is something we all strive towards but can NEVER attain!

[CHA-LEE]

I think flinch is really two major parts. One is anticipation of the recoil and cycling of the gun when it fires. The other is the "BANG" when it goes off. I think that some people are challenged with one area more than another. I know for me the anticipation of the recoil wasn’t too much of a problem but the "BANG" was hard for me to overcome. The only way I was able to over come it was to embrace loud shooting conditions. I would go to a public indoor range during the busiest times and ask for the lane next to the loud guns. I would put foam plugs in my ears as those wouldn’t block as much noise as the ear muffs. I wanted to be exposed to the loud random shots going off all around me. I would load up my mags and then shoot groups at 15 yards but purposefully wait 5 - 10 seconds between shots while holding the gun on the target the whole time. I would force myself to mentally “tune out” the other shots around me and focus completely on keeping both eyes open at all times, no blinking due to the shots, and holding a rock solid sight alignment. After about a month of this I was able to tune it all out and it has never been an issue since. I knew I was good to go when I went in one day and ended up in a lane next to a guy shooting a shotgun. He was doing erratic double tap shots and it was SUPER loud, but it didn’t affect me one bit.

[Stuck in C]

And my big problem is anticipating recoil. I've never been able to get rid of it in 30 years of shooting. Most of the advice given in classes is for the true flinch at the blast/noise. Double plugging and dry fire hasn't helped me. Dummy rounds in the mag shows that I have a serious problem but hasn't helped me get rid of it. When I RO'd the Open Nationals I didn't flinch when those obnoxious pistols that blister paint at 30 yards went off-because I couldn't anticipate when they would fire. At a class once the instructor had me hold the pistol and align the sights while he stood next to me and pressed the trigger. No anticipation, and I (we) couldn't miss! Single ragged holes at 7 yards, and center A zones at 25! Maybe someday I will train this problem away-just before I enter the nursing home.

[MTBfarms]

And my big problem is anticipating recoil. I've never been able to get rid of it in 30 years of shooting. Most of the advice given in classes is for the true flinch at the blast/noise. Double plugging and dry fire hasn't helped me. Dummy rounds in the mag shows that I have a serious problem but hasn't helped me get rid of it. When I RO'd the Open Nationals I didn't flinch when those obnoxious pistols that blister paint at 30 yards went off-because I couldn't anticipate when they would fire. At a class once the instructor had me hold the pistol and align the sights while he stood next to me and pressed the trigger. No anticipation, and I (we) couldn't miss! Single ragged holes at 7 yards, and center A zones at 25! Maybe someday I will train this problem away-just before I enter the nursing home.

I'm still not completly over it yet but it's getting better. Dry firing did not do a thing for me either. It was just standing behind other shooters and watching their guns recoil without blinking. Then just forcing my eyes open while shooting my own gun.

[little_kahuna]

I'd search these forums. I'll bet somebody took some time at one point to put together some words on that topic.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?showtopic=82124

be

Hehehe

A bucket of bullets, a target and a berm.

Load up all your mags, and do as many Bill drills as you can afford.

Repetition is a wonderful thing.

This is true. I don't think flinch (in it's usual negative connotation) is bad, rather, "recoil sensitivity" is the bad part. Flinch (how it should be) is used to return to the gun to a "shootable" position faster.

It's simply a matter of timing and severity. If you "flinch" (anticipate recoil) too severely at the wrong time, your shots are off. But if you anticipate recoil/flinch at the appropriate time, with just enough "control" (sorry for the vague verbage) the gun returns exactly where you want it when you want it there.

I flinch, I'm just timed to the movement of my sights/gun, so you can't really tell while I'm shooting, because it just looks like the gun returns really fast. I'm actually (subconciously, because this is a practiced skill) anticipating recoil, and appropriately correcting it, to minimize the physical effect it has on my shooting, grip, and stance.

I think that recoil sensitivity is cured by simply pouring ammo down range, and minimizing the fear of the shot (blast, push, etc.). Managing recoil and timing yourself (and your "flinch) to your gun is done through careful practice, while observing every movement, every action.

Dry practice allows your body to remember where the gun is supposed to be right before you fire, and right after you recover from the recoil.

Hope that wasn't too unclear, I know it could have been more succinct.