-JQ- Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Due to my religious beliefs, to me self defense is mandatory, not simply a right. +1 Me too. I may have to incorporate that into my signature. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 If I go to a bar and I am carrying, I choose to not drink as much. I don't drink much now-a-days anyway. There are limits and you must know your own limits, no matter what you are doing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JimmyZip Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 My only question is how was the gun "tucked in his waistband" when most likely his waistband was sagging down midway between his waist and the floor ? That just cuts to the meat of the issue. Accidents do happen as we all know, but that image just gets me giggling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 It was an illegal handgun so he WAS breaking the law. Whether or not he should be allowed to carry for self defense or should not in a club or anywhere else is a moot point because he should not have HAD a gun on him in the first place. If his weapon had discharged and injured/killed an innocent instead of himself I daresay some of the attitudes and posts here would be of a different nature. He was carrying an illegal handgun in NYC where he had NO permit to posess or conceal carry. This will earn him a felony conviction which will make his permit in other states a moot point also. Hopefully the charges and prosecution will make others think twice but I doubt it. JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jim Norman Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 (edited) It is a sad fact that your driver's license is at the very least temporarily valid in all 50 states, the territories and protectorates and your marriage license is effectively permanently valid in the same, but your right to carry a weapon with a state issued license is valid only in certain places and stops at arbitrarily drawn lines. That all said, he was breaking NYC law. Apparently had he carried properly, the gun would not have discharged and it appears that the 'security' may have been giving him a pass. At least based upon he was taken aside and was 'unloading' when the 'accident' occurred. Just when were the authorities notified? When it was discovered he was carrying? or after he shot himself? Personally, I would like to see full faith and credit applied to CCW as it is to other laws. 14th anyone? Jim Edited because spell check isn't all it is cracked up to be. Edited December 3, 2008 by Jim Norman Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 Just when were the anchorites notified? When it was discovered he was carrying? or after he shot himself? Apparently, the authorities were not notified until much later. The hospital did not even report the incident when he came in for patching up. Hospitals are required to report all gunshot injuries to the poilce at the time the patient came in. What was reported was that he was already in the club in a private room when the incident happened. I don't know if the Fox's story was just the club covering up their own a$$ for the fact that the bouncer let the gun in or not. Just relaying what was reported the day after it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BlackSabbath Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 How did he shoot himself? If it was a normal Glock with the 5 & /12 lb. connector, I'd say 5 & 1/2 pounds of pressure was applied to the trigger safety and trigger. The muzzle was also pointing at something he didn't intend to destroy as per the 2nd Law Of Gun Safety. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scirocco38s Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 It was an illegal handgun so he WAS breaking the law.Whether or not he should be allowed to carry for self defense or should not in a club or anywhere else is a moot point because he should not have HAD a gun on him in the first place. If his weapon had discharged and injured/killed an innocent instead of himself I daresay some of the attitudes and posts here would be of a different nature. He was carrying an illegal handgun in NYC where he had NO permit to posess or conceal carry. This will earn him a felony conviction which will make his permit in other states a moot point also. Hopefully the charges and prosecution will make others think twice but I doubt it. JK Ok , lets look at the facts. He brought a gun into a club in a city that prohibits guns. His gun handling skills are probably .01% as good as his ball handling skills. His gun knowledge is probably about the same. (I doubt the gun is illegal just the locatrion he had is) He got what he deserved. The security people at the club dont want to turn away people like him because of his celebrity status. The fact that Flex brings up several good points about being able to defend yourself doesnt outweigh the laws of the Great City of New York. The fact that the gun laws of NYC are just 1 of the reasons I dont visit the shithole. I have no sympathy for him as I doubt he carries, worrying about his safety, more likely he does it for show. I do think he has the right to defend hisself though wherever he is regardless of the written law. I think the law he broke worse was the law of good judgement. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
PINMAN44 Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 must be one of those super light glock triggers... yeah I went there. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirty whiteboy Posted December 3, 2008 Share Posted December 3, 2008 His choice of teams, and state was his first mistake if he was going to carry a gun. Plenty of other states are more gun friendly. I'll go out on a limb here and say that due to the recent murders and robberies of professional athletes. I doubt he will do much if any jail time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boats Posted December 4, 2008 Author Share Posted December 4, 2008 All kidding aside I obey the local regulations even if I don't agree with them. Smart guy would not take a pistol to New York City. The mayor has already said he is looking to make an example of Plaxico. I expect the local authorites are more danger to gun owners than potental bad guys. Truth be known bet nobody knows exactly how the famous football star got shot. What he should have said is nothing. That drop down the pants leg story will probably not stand up in court. Boats Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 This is a tough one. I absolutely take the position we as humans have the right to self defense. The constitution only recognizes this right, doesn't give it. It also affirms that the right goes as far to acknowledge that means we have the right to bear arms. I take that as anywhere in this world, the constitution protects that right in this country, or is supposed to. So I cant condemn him for exercising that right I hold dear. His stupidity for why it happened is another issue. I myself have to decide this everyday it seems. I did put my gun in the trunk today while I went into the new courthouse because it had a metal detector. I was not entering a courtroom but only accompanying my son for his drivers license. Now i went into the old courthouse to renew car plates and carried despite the sign as you entered "no concealed weapons allowed" The penalty here is they can ask you to leave. You only get into trouble if you refuse. Now some states I choose to either willfully break their "unconstitutional laws" or i choose not to go to that state/city. Its a tough decision sometimes and probably why I have never spent time in NYC. Was almost thrown in jail at JFK once for having guns when flying out after attending Area 7 but we got lucky and they let us go. I do get nervous traveling through Illinois or NY and do not speed. More so than California. One day I may regret but if i dont one day i may regret it even more. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I'm no Giants fan, but that is neither here nor there. There are simply some circumstances where I will never carry. Whenever I know that I will be really tying one on, the G26 gets left behind. Being unarmed is the risk that I take when I put myself in situations that gun handling is a very poor choice. I have never tried carrying while going to a club for this reason (as well as the bouncers would be a little pissed when they pat me down). If Mr. Burress was carrying a firearm to protect himself, and rightfully so when you have seen violence against athletes, (Durant Williams of Denver, Paul Pierce in Boston, Brian Pata of U 0f Miami to name a few) he should have invested more time getting to know his pistol at the range and less chasing tail. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I make decisions about whether to obey certain laws (restrictions on where/when/how I carry) regularly. This extends to the professional environment where certain locations (customer-owned or my own company) are posted as off-limits, but I have to take my total day into account. Where will I go before there? After? Most folks I know are faced with the same dilemmas on a regular basis. For each it's a personal choice to exercise 'civil disobedience', and for each it should be done with the realization that there may be penalties to face, however unfair or unpalatable they may seem. The laws are the laws even if we don't agree with them. Make your choice and stand up straight if you get nailed for it, and expect to get nailed for it. From what I've read of history that's what starts the process of getting these things changed, but the situation is rarely convenient or painless or inexpensive. As for the bullet in the leg, well, Forrest's mama was right again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) Huh ? Lets not even go into the fact that he is a celebrity and treated totally different, at the club, at the Hospitile, at the "Police" station. Now as far as the the carring ilegally issue, a couple of great points have been made but there is still one big one. By carrying ilegally, in some states, I'm sure NY and I know for a fact CA, , it is infact a felony. So by breaking the law once you are now a felon barred from defense all together. If you want to make a political stand, which you guys know I'm all over that subject, you could compare it to deciding not pay your income taxes because there is "no" law stating you shall !!! The problem is the Government does not care about your stand and they will make you pay for it by ruining you complete life !!! Are you ready ?? I too belive that "The United States Constitution" is my CCW, good in all 50 states ... But this guys is a dumbass pimp, why no holster, because pimps dont wear holsters in the movies !! The Glock "fowty" is the bling !! It's all part of the image ... Edited December 4, 2008 by DIRTY CHAMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 I'm no Giants fan, but that is neither here nor there.There are simply some circumstances where I will never carry. Whenever I know that I will be really tying one on, the G26 gets left behind. Being unarmed is the risk that I take when I put myself in situations that gun handling is a very poor choice. I have never tried carrying while going to a club for this reason (as well as the bouncers would be a little pissed when they pat me down). If Mr. Burress was carrying a firearm to protect himself, and rightfully so when you have seen violence against athletes, (Durant Williams of Denver, Paul Pierce in Boston, Brian Pata of U 0f Miami to name a few) he should have invested more time getting to know his pistol at the range and less chasing tail. I agree with you. If i am setting out to tie one on then i wouldnt want to be armed. Not just from the fear I may do something stupid but mostly because of my ability to safely control the weapon and keep it under control from others doing something stupid with it. Fortunately I dont set to tie one on anymore. But if i decide to have a couple cold ones with dinner I dont hesitate to carry. In this case i haven't read anything to say he was setting out to tie one on. I choose not to judge about the choice to carry , that is his decision. I can condemn his unsafe handling though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paul Santiago Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 If Mr. Burress was carrying a firearm to protect himself, and rightfully so when you have seen violence against athletes, (Durant Williams of Denver, Paul Pierce in Boston, Brian Pata of U 0f Miami to name a few) he should have invested more time getting to know his pistol at the range and less chasing tail. I AM a Giant fan but that really is irrelevant. I can't say why he was carrying since we've never spoken BUT his teammate (Steve Smith) was robbed at gunpoint on 11/25 in his own driveway in a gated community. http://www.nj.com/giants/index.ssf/2008/12...e_smith_ro.html Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sac Law Man Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) Dirty Chamber, Carrying concealed in CA is only a Felony if the gun is not registered to you or you have a prior felony conviction (Plus a few others). Otherwise its a Misdemeanor. Bottom line is the guy is a tool!!! Edited December 4, 2008 by Sac Law Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
el pres Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 (edited) Dirty Chamber,Carrying concealed in CA is only a Felony if the gun is not registered to you or you have a prior felony conviction (Plus a few others). Otherwise its a Misdemeanor. Bottom line is the guy is a tool!!! "registered to you" ??? What if you are from a free state and you legally purchased the gun from a neighbor or friend without any paperwork ?? Now your pulled over in California, passing through, with it loaded in your glovebox or on you... Just a story I heard !! Edited December 4, 2008 by DIRTY CHAMBER Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chuckbradley Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 ... Now as far as the the carring ilegally issue, a couple of great points havebeen made but there is still one big one. By carrying ilegally, in some states, I'm sure NY and I know for a fact CA, , it is infact a felony. So by breaking the law once you are now a felon barred from defense all together. .... From i have been told by several LEOs in California and what i have read just now at http://ag.ca.gov/firearms/dwcl/12020.php It is a misdemeanor in California unless there are aggravating circumstances. NY and IL is a felony from what I understand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JKSNIPER Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Illegal possession of a firearm in NY IS a felony. A felony conviction WILL bar you from owning firearms ever again. Don't risk it. FWIW referring to NYC as a "S-hole" is not nice and the city is actually a nice place to visit...especially this time of year. Yes there are areas of NYC that are less safe than others but I'll bet if I visited some of the cities others here are from there are equally bad areas in those cities as well. Do not equate committing a felony with staging a sit in by referring to it as "Civil disobiedence" Theres a big difference between linking arms and singing protest songs and committing a felony that they intend to make you do jail time for. Hey if I had it my way the carry laws would be different...but they're not. Thats why I call my elected officials and make my opinion known in the hopes that they will get MANY such calls and letters and realize that some laws need to be changed. "Constant pressure, evenly applied, can move mountains." JK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 This is going to be the most ridiculous example of media-driven "punishment completely out of proportion to the crime" that we've seen yet. Even more so than the Michael Vick deal. You watch, they'll stick stupid Plaxico in jail for a year or two, and it will wind up costing him his career. All for an act of stupidity that was committed with no intent to cause harm to anybody. Meanwhile, true criminal behavior is ignored by various authorities all over the place. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Do not equate committing a felony with staging a sit in by referring to it as "Civil disobiedence"Theres a big difference between linking arms and singing protest songs and committing a felony that they intend to make you do jail time for. I don't think I drew a parallel between 60's-era sit-ins and defying concealed carry statutes. Our world has a few more shades of gray than that. But in terms of civil disobedience it is the same. Some of the laws we would smirk at today were punishable by severe penalties in the early annals of our nation's history (I haven't seen anyone branded with a scarlet letter for adultery or witchcraft lately, but I may have missed one or two telecasts from CNN). The fact that one is a felony and the other is a misdemeanor is simply the result of a legislative body deciding how badly they want to punish a certain behavior. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 This is going to be the most ridiculous example of media-driven "punishment completely out of proportion to the crime" that we've seen yet. Even more so than the Michael Vick deal. You're right Mike. Vick wasn't punished nearly enough. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 4, 2008 Share Posted December 4, 2008 Before we see the back and forth arguments (which nobody is going to win, I hope you all understand?)... A question for the members of the bar... Any chance of the NY or NYC laws getting put to the test here (Heller or similar) ? I am doubting it just based on it not being the proper vehicle. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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