Practical Shooting as an Olympic Sport?

[Hank Ellis]

Take a look at my post from last year from the IPSC Anti-Doping thread.

IPSC won't happen in the Olympics in our lifetime.

BTW: The link to the skydiving photo is broken. Here's a better one.

[AikiDale]

IPSC shooting in the Olympics is controlled by the IOC. The IOC is controlled by the people who make up the IOC. These people are either appointed or elected (I really don't know this but I just 'feel' it is a good guess). If shooters want IPSC in the Olympics they will do better to plan how to get friendly folks on the IOC than to complain it can't be done. Quite simply if people can keep IPSC out, people can get IPSC in.

Now, if by 'it won't happen in my lifetime' one means "I don't have sufficient interest to take up this campaign and see it through" I'm with you. I am not going to make it happen and if you are depending upon me to do it for you then it will never happen.

[JFlowers]

AikiDale,

Actually its neither. If I am reading the IOC Bylaws right, IOC Membership is granted to individuals who are nominated by current IOC Members to take the place of retiring members. Retirement is mandantory at 70. The Executive Board is then elected by secret ballot by the membership. So its definately one of those organizations that does what it wants without any oversight and offers very little room for reforms to get in.

I don't think IPSC as it currently exists would make it in the Olympics. Something like the USSA's Pro-Am where scores can be instantly tabulated and a leaderboard maintained might work much better.

If we were serious about getting Practical Pistol moved up the ladder of international sports, one step might be to get it on a currently televised sporting event series, something like the Mt Dew Action Sports Challenge. That would open the door for public recognition and non-industry sponsors.

[Mark K]

I will poke my big nose in here again.

Again, I chased the Olympic Dream for more than 20 years. So I think I have a little insight:

1) Americans only give a damn about the Olympics for about 4 months leading up to the Olympics, and a week afterward - if we do well in a sport you like. The other 3 and a half years, you are one lonesome bastard while you slave away trying to make World Championship and PanAm teams.

2) Americans that participate in American versions of Olympic Sport (say...Basketball, shooting (skeet &Trap), etc), bitch and moan when the rules are different in the International/Olympic version, and use if for an excuse when they lose - they are seldom willing to play the international version in world competition in the interveaning years. Good example - How many of you spend all your training time practicing under IPSC rules with IPSC targets? Though I would guess that most of you would claim that you would like to be on the US Team to the World Championships.

3) I can promise were they ever to have IPSC type shooting in the Olympics, there would be one class of gun - Open. No production, Limited, etc. They would take the most exotic, televisable one. You would be shooting round targets, and stages would be standardized so that everyone could practice them.

4) They would probably do like all of the other shooting sports - everybody shoots, then they take the top couple and have a shoot-off - something the TV folks can cover easily (though American TV seldom covers it, other countries do).

5) Aside from all the Opening and Closing ceremony stuff, those that are at that level will tell you, the Olympics are no different than World Championship or other big competition. (though you do get some cool clothing) No one in America will notice unless it is one of the highly televised sports. Can any of you name ONE medalist from any ONE of the Shooting Events of the last Olympics? (I have the good luck to be able to call 4-5 Olympic Medalists as friends, and am acquainted with another dozen participants)

I guess I could go on, but I have lost my head of steam on the subject.

In short, I think you should be careful what you wish for.

Mark

Edited August 3, 2008 by Mark K

[Rob Boudrie]

Can any of you name ONE medalist from any ONE of the Shooting Events of the last Olympics?

Bad example - Kim Rhode is a rather well known name to those on this forum.

[chuckbradley]

What are the chances we'll ever see Practical Shooting as an event in the Olympics?

I bring this up because I receive those pleas for money from the USA Olympic Shooting team.

Inside that letter were envelope stickers. One of which said: "Shooting is my Olympic Sport".

Now don't get me started that here in America that all the shooting sports in the Olympics this year are banned from network TV (the Europeans will get to watch) , but it made me think to myself that Practical Shooting is my sport... and why can't that be an Olympic sport too?

Seems like Practical Shooting exists just about everywhere in the world now anyways...

Banned. Who Banned it? I can understand the Network not showing due to lack of ratings but banning it is another issue.

[chuckbradley]

Back in 97 or 98 , at an Area 4 in Texarkana our IPSC president, Nick, gave a speech. He claimed that IPSC would be a spectator sport at the Olympics in Greece. Apparently the host country is allowed to pick some spectator sports of their choice and one of the officials in Greece was either a shooter or had ties to the sport and selected IPSC as one of those sports. The Anti-gun organizations went nuts and there was so much political pressure that it was stopped dead in its tracks. Havent heard to much about it since then. I have to tend to agree with most of you that say it will never happen.

This is why we have the new politically correct target.

I am sure there are some or many details I have partially correct or completely wrong. I do know what was said at that match though. I even had hopes of making the USA IPSC Team since they are the ones who would represent the USA in the Olympics. That was short lived.

[JKSNIPER]

Guys and Gals,

In order to change ANYTHING you need some things.

One thing you absolutely must have are people that believe a change can be made or is possible.

You'll not change anything with negative behavior and beliefs.

If I go to a match with the attitude that I will not win, that I CAN'T shoot faster and more accuratly then I have lost the match before I even got out of my car.

"Constant pressure, evenly applied, can move mountains." Ed Gross

True that it may not happen in a convenient time for us and it may happen to benefit those that follow us but if noone ever steps up to the plate how can we succeed?

If every time you failed at something you quit because "I can't do it" or "Its too hard" then who would ever be a champion of anything except quitting?

"Did we quit when the Germans bombed Pearl Harbor?"

Bluto

Wheres that American Can-Do spirit?

I'm sure bringing the USPSA and IPSC into what they are today met with resistance also.

We have to get people, that represent our sport in a positive manner, to start working toward these goals or you can bet your life that the naysayers WILL be right because noone ever stepped up to the plate.

Make friends with some media people.

Take them to the range and show them what a fun and great sport this is.

Get them to have some fun with it and then get THEM to help us out with TV/media coverage.

There will be stumbling blocks, people will hear the word "No" a lot, but if we adopt the attitude that it CAN hapen and that it WILL happen then eventually it will be here.

I may not see it in my lifetime but I guran-damm-tee you all that it sure as hell won't happen with guys that say "it will never happen " at the wheel.

Anyone with a negative attitude about this and not willing to "step up" should not be a representative of this sport.

A rep for the sport...all of us competitors needs to be someone that believes he can make changes and refuses to fail.

If you're in a position of authority in USPSA you need to either change your attitude to a positive one or walk away from it.

Negativity never accomplished a single change anywhere.

JK

[chuckbradley]

Those that represent the sport must also be realistic in what they are facing and not always trying to attain the pot o' gold at the end of the rainbow.

I think we got as close as we are going to get with the Olympics. Doesn't mean some other venue wont be a showcase for the sport. Dont feel bad though, Golf isnt an Olympic sport either.

Michael Bane has hosted many events that introduce the shooting sports to the media. He has reported goos results in the changing of personal opinions of the individuals. But this will not result in positive stories on the shooting sports as much as it might reduce the number of negative ones or the negative slant on gun owners in gun related stories.

ESPN at one time covered an AREA 5 match I was at. I think it was in 96 or 97. I remember it actually airing. Not sure if they did any more matches nor why they dont do it anymore.

Sports Illustrated once set out to do a story on IPSC shooting. Came to some matches, interviewed several involved. Nothing ever came from it. When they were asked why they said they couldn't do a positive story on guns. They set out to do a negative story but once they learned what we were about there wasnt a negative story to tell so they didn't do one.

[shred]

IPSC shooting would be a poor olympic sport IMO-- to do it right would take many days worth of shooting to determine the medallists.

Steel Challenge is closer... or like skiing-- one huge stage for all the marbles???

[Mark K]

How about we take all this energy and try to expand the sport in the USA? What are there, 20,000 particpants in USPSA?

It is really tough to get people outside a sport interested in taking it the Olympics where there is a small participant/spectator base.

Compared to most other countries, the US at least has the advantage of a high private handgun ownership rate.

Mark

[jbullgpd]

The topic says it all. Although the other shooting disciplines have there own skills needed, why don't we see IPSC in the games? I have been watching this week like I am sure most of you have off and on and wondered. We are already connected internationally with shooters all over the world so you know there would be enough competition from all countries. I know we already have the world shoots but I don't know, just something about the Olympics, seeing our best on the tube, wearing the gold, silver, or bronze and listening to the anthem. And you can't say it wouldn't help the sport grow. Major television coverage would definitely help USPSA.

Has it been thought of? Is it just a wet dream? I know there is politics involved with the IOC. Dunno just thinkin.........

Let me have it.........

edit to add poll

Edited August 14, 2008 by jbullgpd

[Julien Boit]

I think it would be politically incorrect in too many countries to have it at the Olympics.

They already reduced the number of shooting disciplines , so........

One of the drawback former IPSC President Jean Pierre Denis was mentionning was "standardization".

Olympics disciplines are always the same. Not much diversity.

The opposite of IPSC, but why not....

That would be great.

[Steve J]

Good background information in this thread.

http://www.brianenos.com/forums/index.php?...amp;hl=olympics

[Paul Burtchell]

Be careful what you wish for

[Cardinal]

IPSC has tried to become an olympic sport for years as mentioned but has beeen turned down by the IOC/ISSF.

part of ISSF position (bold part is my emphasis):

He further told the delegates

that ISSF firmly believed that IPCS shooting

events could not be recognized as sport shooting

events because they too closely resembled

combat, police and personal defence training

to be considered as sports within the Olympic

sports community. Targets should not symbolize

the killing or the destruction of human beings

or animals. The priority of IPSC activities

is that of technical training and competition

in fireanns rather then sport. Mr. Schreiber,

therefore, appealed to the delegates of the

General Assembly of AGFIS/GAISF not to accept

the IPSC as a member of the organization.

Only seven votes out of seventy were in

favour of granting membership to the IPSC.

The ISSF was very satisfied with this result

and, once again, would like to remind all

members, officials, trainers, coaches and athletes

of our international federation of the decision

of our General Assembly 2000 in Sydney,

Australia to not cooperate with the IPSC and

that no member of the ISSF shall participate

in any practical shooting activities.

[Steve J]

Be careful what you wish for

+1 My thoughts exactly.

[JimmyZip]

IPSC has tried to become an olympic sport for years as mentioned but has beeen turned down by the IOC/ISSF.

part of ISSF position (bold part is my emphasis):

He further told the delegates

that ISSF firmly believed that IPCS shooting

events could not be recognized as sport shooting

events because they too closely resembled

combat, police and personal defence training

to be considered as sports within the Olympic

sports community. Targets should not symbolize

the killing or the destruction of human beings

or animals. The priority of IPSC activities

is that of technical training and competition

in fireanns rather then sport. Mr. Schreiber,

therefore, appealed to the delegates of the

General Assembly of AGFIS/GAISF not to accept

the IPSC as a member of the organization.

Only seven votes out of seventy were in

favour of granting membership to the IPSC.

The ISSF was very satisfied with this result

and, once again, would like to remind all

members, officials, trainers, coaches and athletes

of our international federation of the decision

of our General Assembly 2000 in Sydney,

Australia to not cooperate with the IPSC and

that no member of the ISSF shall participate

in any practical shooting activities.

It alwaya amazes me that the history of some events and their relationship to hunting or warfare has been forgotten. Javelin? Shotput? Heck even the marathon has roots in a famous battle. It is a shame how these same anti-gun folks that sit on these boards have little or no clue as to what this is all about.

[Jim Norman]

Olympics allow Wrestling, Tae Kwon Do, Boxing, and Fencing. All of which are violent events that are essentially KILLING techniques and they aren't even directed against representative targets but rather against (GASP!) living breathing HUMANS!!!

I predict that in the future we will see all martial remnants of the games removed and replaced with ballroom dancing and tiddly-winks.

Jim

[rr4406pak]

baerburtchell said: "Be careful what you wish for"

Please explain...

[Mark K]

Olympics allow Wrestling, Tae Kwon Do, Boxing, and Fencing. All of which are violent events that are essentially KILLING techniques and they aren't even directed against representative targets but rather against (GASP!) living breathing HUMANS!!!

I predict that in the future we will see all martial remnants of the games removed and replaced with ballroom dancing and tiddly-winks.

Jim

Archery, Modern Pentathalon

Edited August 14, 2008 by Mark K

[Mark K]

baerburtchell said: "Be careful what you wish for"

Please explain...

There are changes when you go international or Olympic. Witness the difference between USPSA and IPSC targets and rules. Hell we started the sport, but have to bend to international rules if you compete anywhere else.

Olympic shooting is the same. Smallbore shooting. The U.S./NRA has its own rules and courses of fire, but starting just after the 1973 World Championships in Phoenix, there was a shift in International rules that changed much of the equipment that American shooters had been previously using. There also began a slow subtle shift in shooting in the U.S. to start using that same (international rules) equipment, though most of the courses of fire remained. The USAMU basically said that since their mission was to win world and olympic medals, they would to international rules all the time. Slowly junior shooter and programs changed to international equipment. The though being that if you got really good and progressed to a top national position, you would naturally want to be prepared to shoot internationally. Now 90% or more of those shooting smallbore rifle shoot international.

One of my early comments was that very few of us shooting USPSA would be willing to change over to internationa rules, guns and Targets full time.

Just my opinion folks.

Mark

[Slabbie Shooter]

Yeah getting past ISSF is the real hurdle. All the Olympic shooting events are ISSF events.

We'd have to really retool the look of the sport to make it palatable to them.

[XRe]

The biggest thing that I noted in the rules that would have to be adopted by IPSC is conformation to the World Anti-Doping Agency's drug testing protocols. This means that, before you can enter drug therapy for a medical condition, you have to have consulted with officials to get it "approved" - your medical treatment is no longer up to just you and your doctor. Otherwise, you cannot compete at any event regulated by IPSC rules....

That's one of those "be careful what you wish for" types of things, right there, in my opinion....

[Nik Habicht]

your medical treatment is no longer up to just you and your doctor.

Sure it is up to you. Medical treatment is never up to your doctor --- it's always up to you. Sometimes that decision about medical treatment has consequences -- such as needing to find a new doctor, or refraining from engaging in an activity you have previously enjoyed. But the choice is nonetheless yours to make....

That said --- I'm pretty sure I'd refrain from being drug tested on a range at an international match; I'd have to seriously trust that appropriate infection control procedures were in place.....