Micro size 1911s

[JimInFL]

I've had my eye on one of these for a new carry gun. Springfield has the EMP and several other 'Micro's in 9, .40, .45, as well as Kimber, Para and maybe others I've missed. However, I remember reading an article somewhere that insinuated that the larger calibers (e.g. > 9) just don't seem to be as reliable in a 3 or 3.5 inch barrel.

Anyone offer opinions ? I'm not a rich man - can't afford to experiment $1K at a time.

JimInFL

[Limitless13]

PM Sent

[-JQ-]

I've had my eye on one of these for a new carry gun. Springfield has the EMP and several other 'Micro's in 9, .40, .45, as well as Kimber, Para and maybe others I've missed. However, I remember reading an article somewhere that insinuated that the larger calibers (e.g. > 9) just don't seem to be as reliable in a 3 or 3.5 inch barrel.

Anyone offer opinions ? I'm not a rich man - can't afford to experiment $1K at a time.

JimInFL

From what I have learned, the 1911 isn't well suited to barrel lengths <4". IIRC the EMP was re-designed "from the ground up" for the 9mm and I haven't had the chance to play with one.

I found out the hardway with a Springfield Micro-compact. I liked the size but it was too unreliable for me. I did the normal things needed - polished feed ramp, etc but never felt it was something I could really count on...and that was with standard hard ball ammo even. After having the brass pound me in the forehead time after time I soon tired of the gun. I'm sure many of the issues I had could have been worked out but my mind was set...it had to go.

I have now gone off the deep end the other way and bought a WC 5"...no issues...and for the price there shouldn't be but as far as any 1911 < 4" barrel I'm leary.

I'm sure others here can give you a more technical reason, but that was my experince when going small.

YMMV

[JimInFL]

Thanks hk. That follows what I remember reading as well. I was shooting an M&P 9 in Production for a while and really like it. I may just keep it simple and do an M&P .40 compact for carry, although that doesn't buy me much in terms of size, compared to the G23 I use now. I guess after shooting my Open gun for a while now, I'm becoming a 1911 style bigot . But if I can't depend on it in .40 or .45 then no point. I assume the 9s all run OK (like the EMP) - haven't heard anything about them.

[-JQ-]

Maybe I wasn't too clear, but just to try...the 1911 was designed for the 38 super and then 45...IMHO all others are suspect or at least just "not right " in my mind <flame on>

I think the issue is...no I'd better wait for someone smarter than me to reply...shouldn't be too hard...there are many here on BE who can tell the real story of barrel length, pressure, mechanics...I just stayed at a Holiday Inn once...not even an Express.

FWIW - Wilson makes them in 9mm, 40, 45 and 38 super. I just can't get my mind around the other cals in a 1911. To go one step more I think the SS class should be all .45's <more flames?>

Good luck and enjoy the journey!

[kframe_mike]

Personally,I won't go smaller than a Commander.These micro things just aren't what John M Browning intended,IMHO.My concealed bacon saver is a S&W Bodyguard.-Mike

[Run n Gun]

I've competed with a 5" Single Stack 1911 for many years (L-10) so when it came time to buy a carry gun I started looking at the 3". That decision made, I spent months in the various 1911 forums reading everything I could the reliability of the short guns. Owning a Kimber that I was (and am) very happy with, I focused on them but I read about all of the others as well. I went back years and read HUNDREDS of threads and THOUSANDS of posts and one short gun kept coming to the top of the heap, surprisingly the Colt Defender!

On my next trip to my friendly local gun peddler I picked one up. At first there was a lot NOT to like; the trigger was terrible and all of the edges of the gun were so sharp you had to be careful not to cut yourself! I fixed the trigger and beveled all of the edges (being a stainless gun it was easy) and took the thing out shot it. It was love at first magazine. I've owned it and carried it for years now and I still love it. I'll feed anything and runs like a sewing machine. Never a malfunction of any kind, not one. Heck, I've even competed with it in a couple of specialty match.

So, while the conventional wisdom says that anything less than a Commander length (4 1/4") 1911 is not reliable, I've got proof that that ain't necessarily so...

Ed

[tightloop]

A good smith can get any of them to run...but like others have said, the shorter the bbl, the more difficult the reliability factor becomes...I think it comes down to your tolerance factor in getting there.

Edited July 25, 2008 by tightloop

[RV man]

I have the same story as "hk". I loved my Springfield Micro compact, but could not trust it completely. I traded in on a Wilson that doesn't carry as easily, but ALWAYS RUNS!!! A friend of mine just bought a STI 3 inch and it shows great promise.

Bill

[MT_Bear]

I've had a Springfield EMP in 9mm for over a year and have sent over 2000 rounds through it. The only issue I have had is that the recoil guide would loosen from the rod during prolonged shooting sessions - Springfield sent me a new assembly, but I found that a little blue loctite solved the problem.

The EMP is more accurate than I am, and hasn't had an issue with any RN or HP ammo.

It is now available in .40 SW, and I would like to get one, I just need to figure out how to get it past "She Who Must Be Obeyed".

IMHO it is a great gun.

[Flatland Shooter]

Many years ago I shot a friend's compact Detonics .45. This gun was ultra-reliable with ball ammo and, for its size, not hard to shoot. I believe it had a 3.5" bbl.

It may be time for me to look for one.

Bill

[Tin Can]

I bought one and had so much trouble with it I finally got rid of it. Later I did some checking and everyone was having the same problems. I don't want to get into a flame war so I will not mention the brand.

[Seth]

Bought a Springer Micro last year. Put 1000+ rounds through it and two trips to SA to get it running right. As soon as it ran, I sold it. Too much headache, even if it finally worked. YMMV.

[ima45dv8]

In my experiences with subcompact 1911 varients (and among friends who've tried that route), it's all about timing. The timing of the slide's cycle is shortened due to the reduced travel. This means the timing of the magazine lifting the next round fast enough to get picked up as the slide whizzes by is affected. If either set of springs (recoil or magazine) is fatigued or otherwise out of spec, failures will occur (failure to feed, failure to eject being the most common). The recoil spring systems seem to be the ones that fail the most/fastest.

In the years I've been involved in matches, I've seen maybe 5-6 people (usually new to the sport) shooting them. When asked how they run they almost always say, "Great!" When asked how many rounds they've had through them, usually the answer is considerably less than 1,000. A few matches later they're holding a jam-o-matic and wondering why it won't run. That sort of thing might be an acceptable risk for a match gun but I'm not staking my life on one.

I guess you could keep one running by changing to fresh recoil and mag springs [very] often, but for me, I don't want a PDW that I have to worry that much about. I like to shoot my carry gun(s) from time to time and I don't want to wonder or worry whether I've put one round too many through them to be reliable.

Even in the 'carried much, shot very little' mode I can't bring myself to put full trust in one, and that's exactly what you need when things go bump in the night.

Opinions do vary, but that's mine.

============================

What does work? The smallest I'd bet on is the hybrids made with an Officer's-sized frame and a Commander-sized (or Kimber 4") slide. Names vary but Les Baer's version is named the 'Stinger'. And while still a handfull to shoot with full power loads, I'd have faith in that combo. Proven, standard-length recoil spring systems for these slides have been around for a while. Barrel length is the easiest part of the pistol to hide anyway, so the 4" or 4-1/4" slide wouldn't be a problem.

Again, YMMV.

[Seth]

That's a good point. I tried a number of different fixes for my springer, including a strong magazine spring. What happened then was that the round would pop up in front of the extractor. With the SA mags, I found that it would run great for a few dozen rounds, then choke again if everything wasn't perfect. It was also VERY follower sensitive. With the dimple in the follower at the very back it wouldn't run well. With the dimple in the middle of the follower it was more consistent.

It was a terrible headache and was generally unpleasant to sort out. I just wanted it to work.

[Run n Gun]

ima45dv8,

Your absolutely right about the recoil springs, I change mine about every 800-rounds and as to the mag springs, well, early on I bought some

Tripp mags with chrome-silicon springs that have been flawless. I don't shoot mine a lot, maybe 5000-rounds in all the years I've owned it. It points the same and the controls are the same as my 5" which I DO shoot a lot so I've never felt the need to hammer the little Colt to death. And yes, I do bet my life on it every day. I've been shooting for fifty years now and I've learned NEVER to put my faith in a gun until it has proved it's self beyond all doubt...

Ed

[ima45dv8]

Yep! Stay on top of those springs.

[Merlin Orr]

They don't work.

[Fullauto_Shooter]

I've got a Kimber Ultra Tactical 3" that I've put about 1500 rounds through. It's been 100% reliable - never had a single jam with any type of ammo I've fed it. My biggest problem is that I just don't shoot it very well. It has fixed sights and I have to aim at the upper right shoulder on a full size silhouette at 15 yards to achieve center mass hits. This Kimber is my current carry gun, but I'm thinking seriously about moving to at least a 4" model simply for increased accuracy. Hell, maybe I should just get a full-size and be done with it.

The 3" model is great to carry but I just don't have a lot of confidence that I can precisely place my hits where I need them.

[revchuck]

Jim - I'd stick with the G23 or get an M&P or Glock compact. They're proven and reliable. Whatever ergonomic advantage a 1911 might have, if it doesn't run, it's worthless. (I say this having dusted off the .45 ACP Commander this morning and having put it on for the first time in ages.)

Then again, if you're just looking for an excuse to buy another gun, far be it from me to get in your way.

[waxman]

I like so many here, thought these little devils would be perfect, since I am so used to a 1911. Well after counless loads, tweaking, and cussing, i finally gave up on my SA ultra compact. I traded it for a full size kimber, and never looked back. I am seriously debating gettin my CCW, so if I do, i think i will end up going with a 4 " XD 40.

[LPatterson]

I had an early Detonics Combat proof marked by the designer that worked great for several thousand rounds until it was stolen. Then I bought a Series 70 Colt Officer Model tuned by a now deceased gunsmith named Russ Carnak with a reversed plug & Ed Brown springs. This gun has also been flawless for several thousand rounds. So I am not sure it is a design flaw as much as finding the right gunsmith to tune it.

[JimInFL]

Thanks for all the great input folks. I guess I'll think more about this. Now I'm thinking in terms of maybe a Kimber with a 4" barrel, rather than a 3". Then again, maybe I should just pick up an M&P compact in .40 and save quite a few bucks too. Decisions, decisions.

In any event, thank you. I love this place !

JimInFL

[Jasonub]

i have an armscor ria, officers and changed to ismi recoil spring and magsprings flawless

[oddjob]

I was also searching for the perfect mini-1911 to carry at work. Mini-1911's at the time were just too "iffy" for me. I ended up with a Sig 245 and it was a reliable gun. I carried it for about a year and went to a Lt Wt Commander instead. I just found I could shoot a Lt Wt Commander a whole lot better than the 245. Been carrying that for years. Still have the 245........dunno why, but I still have it.