Gun Free Zones

[cpty1]

We have all these gun free zones, i.e., colleges, malls, corporations - who even prohibit licensed CCWs from having a weapon in their vehicle on company property, with terminations resulting from "random" searches when hunting rifles are found, irregardless of the fact that the employee went hunting that morning before work; or my favorite: termination due to a round of ammo found in the vehicle that was inadvertently dropped under the seat during the hunting trip the weekend before. Anyway, I digress.

I hate that one has to make a decision whether to purposely violate an absurd policy, and risk the potential ramifications if they do so. Even when the same actions, (i.e., storage of ammo/weapons in vehicles, etc. in this case) is perfectly legal once you drive off certain properties.

[Knee Deep]

Is always a task, do I or not, and one that I make daily. Here is a basic reference/ opinions for Georgia

No Signage Laws

A "No Firearms" sign on a private business does not mean anything. If your firearm is noticed, they simply ask you to leave. If the police arrive and you still refuse to leave you can be charged with criminal trespass. You keep your permit even if convicted.

However, some "public gatherings" (and any of the above areas off-limits) such as a county hospital or the post office may have signs posted to inform you they are off-limits. You probably will lose your permit for several years if convicted.

So, just because you see a sign does not mean it is or isn't off-limits and just because you don't see a sign does not mean it is or isn't off-limits.

found under: Places Not Off Limits to firearms and Places Off Limits to firearms

http://www.georgiapacking.org/

So now I am really Knee Deep in IT

Edited December 7, 2007 by Knee Deep

[Flatland Shooter]

In Texas, the law stipulates exactly what the sign must say and how it must appear. Therefore, it is my understanding, concealed carry into a mall or store without the proper signs cannot be prosecuted for the concealed carry. However, should store owners or mall officials request you leave the premises, you must leave or can be charged with trespass. The request to leave applies to not just concealed carry, but for any reason the owner/officials that they may have.

If the signs appear to meet the statutory requirement, I do not carry on their premises and prefer to not even enter their premises.

If the sign consists of a picture of a handgun with a line crossed through it, or some other obviously "Texas unacceptable" sign, I am still in my legal right to carry and will do so.

With respect to schools, post offices, courthouses, and any other place that the law says I cannot carry concealed, I comply with the law.

All said, the only person that knows that I carry is my wife. No one has ever noticed I was packing and no one has ever asked. In an effort to keep concealed carry "concealed", I don't try to hide a Desert Eagle in my briefs, but rather carry something much smaller and far more concealable.

Bill

[Loves2Shoot]

or my favorite: termination due to a round of ammo found in the vehicle that was inadvertently dropped under the seat during the hunting trip the weekend before.

Where did they work that it was ok to search the car? That is illegal in most places without consent, probably criminal even.

Concealed is concealed if it is legal, I could care less what they post.

[tightloop]

In Texas, the law stipulates exactly what the sign must say and how it must appear. Therefore, it is my understanding, concealed carry into a mall or store without the proper signs cannot be prosecuted for the concealed carry. However, should store owners or mall officials request you leave the premises, you must leave or can be charged with trespass. The request to leave applies to not just concealed carry, but for any reason the owner/officials that they may have.

If the signs appear to meet the statutory requirement, I do not carry on their premises and prefer to not even enter their premises.

If the sign consists of a picture of a handgun with a line crossed through it, or some other obviously "Texas unacceptable" sign, I am still in my legal right to carry and will do so.

With respect to schools, post offices, courthouses, and any other place that the law says I cannot carry concealed, I comply with the law.

All said, the only person that knows that I carry is my wife. No one has ever noticed I was packing and no one has ever asked. In an effort to keep concealed carry "concealed", I don't try to hide a Desert Eagle in my briefs, but rather carry something much smaller and far more concealable.

Bill

It used to be as you describe it...now changed so that even if no signage is posted and someone notices you are packing, they do not have to say a word or ask you to leave..they call the cops and you are arrested for trespass As always, the operative part of CCW, is CONCEALED..if they don't know, how can they ask you to leave or call the police?

[Flatland Shooter]

It used to be as you describe it...now changed so that even if no signage is posted and someone notices you are packing, they do not have to say a word or ask you to leave..they call the cops and you are arrested for trespass As always, the operative part of CCW, is CONCEALED..if they don't know, how can they ask you to leave or call the police?

I guess I'm naive. I don't get out much and do not know anyone that has been "caught" carrying concealed. I just assumed that the store or the cops need to advise you that you are trespassing and be allowed to leave before an arrest takes place.

Bill

[MichiganShootist]

Michigan has some crazy sign postings and no carry zones as well.

There is a large mall in my part of the state which is a classic example fo signage that can't be enforced.

The main doors that open directly into the mall common spaces are all marked with no firearms signs. However, none of the stores have signs on their outside entrances or the exits from the stores into the mall common areas... so how can that be enforced???

Another is that a public a arena or facility that has a capicity of 2,500 or more people is a no carry zone. On several occasions I have called locations (which have no signs) and they can't or won't tell me their capacity... plus the largest gun shows in the state are all caught in this trap and have become no carry zones (even though there are thousands of guns in the buliding and ammunition is openly for sale.

None of "our" no carry zones make sense... but the law is still the law.... and convicted felons in this state can not own ANY firearms... so I don't want to be the guy that becomes a test case.

[Coach]

This is a problem for me everyday. I teach at a high school. More people have been killed by shootings at school than fires, tornados and the like in the last ten years but I cannot carry a gun to school to protect myself and others. Our official school policy in case of a shooting is lock the door and hide. How many have to die needlessly before things change?

[ChrisStock]

I know of 2 gunshops here locally that have signage such as this posted at the door. Not that I have ever obeyed it, mind you. I understand their logic (firearms safety or complete lack thereof), but it still irritates the beshizzle out of me to see it. I feel your pain.

[gunsablazin]

I rant with you, rant on brother!

[Carl]

or my favorite: termination due to a round of ammo found in the vehicle that was inadvertently dropped under the seat during the hunting trip the weekend before.

Where did they work that it was OK to search the car? That is illegal in most places without consent, probably criminal even.

Concealed is concealed if it is legal, I could care less what they post.

One way they get around it is that since Georgia is a "Right to Work State", they ask to search you vehicle. If you refuse, they terminate your right to work there..

Kinda walking the line, but the other way is that since you are on their property they have a right to search your vehicle, again if you refuse, you are terminated.

I know Georgia Carry is working to overturn those provisions, Let's hope we can.

Carl

[el pres]

Ok, mabey I posted this in the wrong one but the same topic is

in things I like ???

Excellent read!! I feel like I'm leaving feedback A+++++++++++++

I live in Salt Lake where the Trolley Square shootings took place.

Its a terrible part of society that tragic events like this even occure.

These people are failed cowards who are going to take their sociatol

failure out on the weak (gun free zones), schools, women shopping etc..

Everyone needs to ck there state laws but from what I'm getting

from my local CCW instructors in the area, in our state anyway, a

business can display any anti weapons sign they want but that does

not override state law which validates my permit unless they register

that request with the crimal investigation dept. or the permit issueing

dept. of the state...

Therefore, law abiding citizens who turn around at the door and go back

to the car may not need to jerpordize their safety like that...

[cpty1]

Therefore, law abiding citizens who turn around at the door and go back

to the car may not need to jerpordize their safety like that...

That's good, and may cover the retail environments in Utah, but what about the corporations that prohibit CCW licensed weapons in vehicles on company property? There was an article in the American Hunter a while back about several terminations of employees of various companies in midwest locations. The examples I mentioned in the earlier post. This prohibition is specifically written into the code of conduct of most large corporations.

[chp5]

It's a very hard issue - break the "rules" or not. When it has to do with your livelihood, it's very dicey.

[el pres]

Sadly, one of those national companies fired some

people here in Utah for that reason. I think it was

a credit card service center if I'm not mistaking.

If it is a private company then they can make any

rule they want to. Easier said then done, all we can

do is not be employed by them and make an effort

to not use their products and let them know about it...

Let them know that they have violated the bill of rights

for us...

[chuckbradley]

The big corporations tried that here in Kentucky, mostly the Toyota plant here in Georgetown. Our legislature stopped that and protected a CCW's right to have a firearm in their car, wherever. Even on School property. I was sitting in my truck watching my son play baseball and one of the local officers was hanging in my window talking , watching also. He said you probably got a pistol in here dont you. I said yep. He said you got a CCW , so your good. Some officers dont know that but the key is it cant be brandished. Some say that means be seen. Dont dare step out of the vehicle carrying on school property though, you instantly become a felon.

Funny thing I was talking to the sheriff about what he thought the law said about OPEN carry in the Sheriffs office. We have open carry as well as CCW. You cant carry concealed in a police station. So I wandered what if I open carried, what would happen. He said if there is a sign you cant carry either way but I dont have a sign so come on in. I didnt think he was right but no sense in arguing with the man.

[Rob Boudrie]

It used to be as you describe it...now changed so that even if no signage is posted and someone notices you are packing, they do not have to say a word or ask you to leave..they call the cops and you are arrested for trespass As always, the operative part of CCW, is CONCEALED..if they don't know, how can they ask you to leave or call the police?

Are you saying they changed TX law 30.06, or is this something they "just did" by deciding the law did not mean what is says?

[mlmiller1]

Rob,

I'm speaking kind of out of turn but I think he is talking about if they just have a no guns sign of some kind & someone sees you carrying. (Read the post he quoted & maybe that will help you understand what he's saying) Then he says they can call the pd & have you arrested for trespassing or something like that. I personally am not so sure he's completely right but I assume a property owner can have someone arrested for trespassing under certain circumstances but there are lots of "depends" in those circumstances.

However, I'm sort of like Alamo Shooter & I probably don't know nuttin'.

MLM

[Flatland Shooter]

It used to be as you describe it...now changed so that even if no signage is posted and someone notices you are packing, they do not have to say a word or ask you to leave..they call the cops and you are arrested for trespass As always, the operative part of CCW, is CONCEALED..if they don't know, how can they ask you to leave or call the police?

I guess I'm naive. I don't get out much and do not know anyone that has been "caught" carrying concealed. I just assumed that the store or the cops need to advise you that you are trespassing and be allowed to leave before an arrest takes place.

Bill

Did a little follow up research on the Texas Penal Code. If I understand it correctly, to be guilty of trespass I need to be somewhere its posted I should not be or advised that I am somewhere I should not be. The owner may decide to have the local law advise that I need to leave, but it appears that if asked to leave and I do, no harm no foul. They can't just walk up and decide you are trespassing and haul you off. Of course if some sleeze is going to call the law, he would probably be willing to lie to the law and tell them he asked you to leave and you refused.

§ 30.05. CRIMINAL TRESPASS[0]. (a) A person commits an offense if he enters or remains on or in property, including an

aircraft or other vehicle, of another without effective consent or he enters or remains in a building of another without effective consent and he:

(1) had notice that the entry was forbidden; or

(2) received notice to depart but failed to do so.

[JohnRodriguez]

I work for a large mining company that has a no firearms allowed on the property rule that will have you fired on the spot. they just recently started to bring in drug/bomb sniffing dogs to walk the employee parking lot, and shop/locker areas and to date have found several vehicles with loose ammo in them. The policy is to have the employees in question DNA'ed on the spot. I'm fortunate that I live 2 streets away from my parking lot and can leave my 1911 in my car at home while I drive my jeep to work. After having rubbed vitavouri 310 on my tires at least twice for the inspections I don't think that the dogs can actually smell powder or gun powder residue as my spare tire is saturated with it when I crony off the back of the jeep and use it as a support for aiming. I also have a powder actuated anchor tool in my locker and the dogs have never been able to dected it. The officer who handles the dogs wont say, but I suspect that the factory ammo manufatures are having finished bullets sprayed with a marker that the dogs are trained to dected, as these are the only things that are being found by the dogs. The one reason that the company uses this tactic is that if a employee was wasted on crack or some other drug, nothing would stop him/her if they decided to take 360 ton haul truck on a rampage. This happed last year in albuquerque when a 18 wheeler driver on crack went nuts and took out a neighberhood of cars before the police could stop him.

[Ted Murphy]

I worked for a company that had the new employee sign they read and understood the employee handbook and that they agreed to follow the rules or be fired.

One of those rules was that they consented to a search of their vehicle at any time.

Sucked.

I work in a place that has a no guns rule. I don't know what to say about that beyond you need to balance what you consider are your needs, consider the comsequences of your actions or lack therof, and act accordingly.

[chp5]

Do these companies' handbook provide them with the ablity to search your person? Just thinking out loud . . .

[chuckbradley]

Do these companies' handbook provide them with the ablity to search your person? Just thinking out loud . . .

That would be a choice you would make as a condition of employment there. IF you dont like it then work somewhere else. Maybe one day enough people will decide not to work there that they will have to change their policy to get good employees. Not likely though.

[Ted Murphy]

Better one than that, my company hit a manager's house with a search warrant to look for stolen property.

They have in house sworn investigators who served the warrant.

Edited December 15, 2007 by Ted Murphy

[dirty whiteboy]

GUN FREE ZONE STRIKES AGAIN by Ted Nugent

Here we go again. Someone tell me why, with nearly 3000 articles written worldwide within 48 hours following the tragic slaughter at the Omaha, Nebraska Westroads Mall this week, that not a single one of them mentioned the most important fact of all. Thousands of “professional” writers converging on such an event, sharing their sleuthing in the world’s most respected publications and electronic media, yet not a single one of them saw it meaningful in their “reporting” of the crime to mention all the “no guns allowed” signs throughout the mall? Got agenda? Sig heil!

Even though Nebraska recently got a small piece of their Second Amendment back by finally allowing law abiding citizens their “God given right” to keep and bear arms, it is truly anti-American and downright bizzarro that private property and business owners can deny (as in “infringe”) this “inalienable” right bestowed upon free men by our Creator. This of course is the liberal dream known as “gun free zones.” As in Columbine, VA Tech, Luby’s cafeteria in Killeen, Texas, and at every other location where the wanton slaughter of unarmed, helpless victims is a virtual guarantee.

Except of course at the Salt Lake City mall last year where an armed off duty cop properly defied that mall’s “gun free” policy, who, virtually indistinguishable for all practical purposes from an armed law abiding citizen, was able to thwart a mass shooting about to unfold, were it not for a good guy with a gun. How dense must someone be to hide from this information and fact? Denial runs deep in a growing population of “we the sheeple.” For shame.

When did a nation of rugged individuals turn into helpless whiners, crying and running in fear from danger and evil? When did we abandon our natural instinct to counterpunch and attack evil, overpowering it and neutralizing it into submission? When were we forced to dial 9-1-1, losing and wasting precious, decisive time, instead of doing the right thing and stopping bad guys ourselves? When did we trade in independence for dependency? When did we decide that we can’t handle tough situations ourselves, and we need to call big brother while we cower and hide like little, helpless children? Pathetic.

Everyday in this country, according to the Department of Justice and every study ever conducted, armed, law abiding citizens stop dangerous, violent confrontations from escalating into death and tragedy, simply by having a gun handy to provide real “equality” on the mean streets of America. Dedicated cops across America will be the first ones to tell you that they not only can’t possibly be there to protect us, but that they also have no legal requirement to do so. By the time the police show up, many innocents will likely perish at the hands of evil while good people hang around hoping and praying. Does anyone still not know this reality? Is it possible to still hide from this life and death truth? If you have no soul, apparently so.

I would highly recommend that we finally learn from all these senseless tragedies. Get real. Get rid of politicians who support gunfree slaughter zones. Get rid of Gunfree zones. Get a gun, learn to use it, and do the right thing. Bad guys should be shot dead, not Christmas shoppers.