Bad Guys getting what they Deserve

[ExtremeShot]

You guys should read/listen to this report about a guy that shot some burglars at his neighbor's house in Texas. The Radio Factor podcast for 12/05/07 has the story also. You can listen to the podcast through Itunes or do a google search for it.

You should really listen to the podcast.

Darren

"Texan Kills Thieves: Hero or Homicidal?":

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Nov26/0,4...hooting,00.html

"The Deaths of Two Illegal Aliens Near Houston..."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315477,00.html

"Texan Kills Thieves: Hero or Homicidal?"

HOUSTON — The cha-chick of a shell entering a shotgun's chamber rattled through the 911 line just before Joe Horn stepped out his front door.

Horn, 61, had phoned police when he saw two men break into his neighbor's suburban Houston home through a window in broad daylight. Now they were getting away with a bag of loot.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

He did.

Admirers, including several of his neighbors, say Horn is a hero for killing the burglars, protecting his neighborhood and sending a message to would-be criminals. Critics call him a loose cannon. His attorney says Horn just feared for his life.

Prosecuting Horn could prove difficult in Texas, where few people sympathize with criminals and many have an almost religious belief in the right to self-defense. The case could test the state's self-defense laws, which allow people to use deadly force in certain situations to protect themselves, their property and their neighbors' property.

Horn was home in Pasadena, about 15 miles southeast of Houston, on Nov. 14 when he heard glass breaking, said his attorney, Tom Lambright. He looked out the window and saw 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus and 30-year-old Diego Ortiz using a crowbar to break out the rest of the glass.

He grabbed a 12-gauge shotgun and called 911, Lambright said.

"Uh, I've got a shotgun," he told the dispatcher. "Uh, do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that," the dispatcher responded. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn and the dispatcher spoke for several minutes, during which Horn pleaded with the dispatcher to someone to catch the men and vowed not to let them escape. Over and over, the dispatcher told him to stay inside. Horn repeatedly said he couldn't.

When the men crawled back out the window carrying a bag, Horn began to sound increasingly frantic.

"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn said as a shell clicked into the chamber. "You hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going."

A few seconds passed.

"Move," Horn can be heard saying on the tape. "You're dead."

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he'd done.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

Lambright said Horn had intended to take a look around when he left his house and instead came face to face with the burglars, standing 10 to 12 feet from him in his yard.

Horn is heavyset and middle-aged and would have been no match in a physical confrontation with the two men, who were young and strong, Lambright said. So when one or both of them "made lunging movements," Horn fired in self-defense, he said.

Family members of the two shooting victims have made few public statements.

Diamond Morgan, Ortiz's widow, who has an 8-month-old son with him, told Houston television station KTRK that she was stunned by Horn's statements on the 911 tape. "It's horrible," she said. "He was so eager, so eager to shoot."

The Associated Press could not find a telephone listing for Morgan.

The case brought back memories of Bernard Goetz, the New Yorker whom some hailed as a folk hero after he shot four teenagers he said were trying to rob him when they asked for $5 on a subway in 1984.

Goetz was cleared of attempted murder and assault charges but convicted of illegal possession of the gun he used to shoot the youths. He served 8 1/2 months in jail and was ordered by a jury to pay $43 million to one of the teenagers he shot.

Pasadena police were still investigating Monday and planned to present their findings to Harris County prosecutors within the next two weeks, police spokesman Vance Mitchell said. From there, it is expected to be presented to a grand jury. In the meantime, Horn remains uncharged.

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they could otherwise be killed. In some cases, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbors' property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town.

At issue is whether it was reasonable for Horn to fear the men and whether his earlier threats on the 911 call showed he planned to kill them no matter what, said Fred C. Moss, who teaches criminal law at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

[tightloop]

Got what they deserved....Don't Mess with Texas or Texans!!!

[AlamoShooter]

Too much talk

[JThompson]

You guys should read/listen to this report about a guy that shot some burglars at his neighbor's house in Texas. The Radio Factor podcast for 12/05/07 has the story also. You can listen to the podcast through Itunes or do a google search for it.

You should really listen to the podcast.

Darren

"Texan Kills Thieves: Hero or Homicidal?":

http://www.foxnews.com/wires/2007Nov26/0,4...hooting,00.html

"The Deaths of Two Illegal Aliens Near Houston..."

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,315477,00.html

"Texan Kills Thieves: Hero or Homicidal?"

HOUSTON — The cha-chick of a shell entering a shotgun's chamber rattled through the 911 line just before Joe Horn stepped out his front door.

Horn, 61, had phoned police when he saw two men break into his neighbor's suburban Houston home through a window in broad daylight. Now they were getting away with a bag of loot.

"Don't go outside the house," the 911 operator pleaded. "You're going to get yourself shot if you go outside that house with a gun. I don't care what you think."

"You want to make a bet?" Horn answered. "I'm going to kill them."

He did.

Admirers, including several of his neighbors, say Horn is a hero for killing the burglars, protecting his neighborhood and sending a message to would-be criminals. Critics call him a loose cannon. His attorney says Horn just feared for his life.

Prosecuting Horn could prove difficult in Texas, where few people sympathize with criminals and many have an almost religious belief in the right to self-defense. The case could test the state's self-defense laws, which allow people to use deadly force in certain situations to protect themselves, their property and their neighbors' property.

Horn was home in Pasadena, about 15 miles southeast of Houston, on Nov. 14 when he heard glass breaking, said his attorney, Tom Lambright. He looked out the window and saw 38-year-old Miguel Antonio DeJesus and 30-year-old Diego Ortiz using a crowbar to break out the rest of the glass.

He grabbed a 12-gauge shotgun and called 911, Lambright said.

"Uh, I've got a shotgun," he told the dispatcher. "Uh, do you want me to stop them?"

"Nope, don't do that," the dispatcher responded. "Ain't no property worth shooting somebody over, OK?"

Horn and the dispatcher spoke for several minutes, during which Horn pleaded with the dispatcher to someone to catch the men and vowed not to let them escape. Over and over, the dispatcher told him to stay inside. Horn repeatedly said he couldn't.

When the men crawled back out the window carrying a bag, Horn began to sound increasingly frantic.

"Well, here it goes, buddy," Horn said as a shell clicked into the chamber. "You hear the shotgun clicking, and I'm going."

A few seconds passed.

"Move," Horn can be heard saying on the tape. "You're dead."

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Click.

Boom.

Horn redialed 911 and told the dispatcher what he'd done.

"I had no choice," he said, his voice shaking. "They came in the front yard with me, man. I had no choice. Get somebody over here quick."

Lambright said Horn had intended to take a look around when he left his house and instead came face to face with the burglars, standing 10 to 12 feet from him in his yard.

Horn is heavyset and middle-aged and would have been no match in a physical confrontation with the two men, who were young and strong, Lambright said. So when one or both of them "made lunging movements," Horn fired in self-defense, he said.

Family members of the two shooting victims have made few public statements.

Diamond Morgan, Ortiz's widow, who has an 8-month-old son with him, told Houston television station KTRK that she was stunned by Horn's statements on the 911 tape. "It's horrible," she said. "He was so eager, so eager to shoot."

The Associated Press could not find a telephone listing for Morgan.

The case brought back memories of Bernard Goetz, the New Yorker whom some hailed as a folk hero after he shot four teenagers he said were trying to rob him when they asked for $5 on a subway in 1984.

Goetz was cleared of attempted murder and assault charges but convicted of illegal possession of the gun he used to shoot the youths. He served 8 1/2 months in jail and was ordered by a jury to pay $43 million to one of the teenagers he shot.

Pasadena police were still investigating Monday and planned to present their findings to Harris County prosecutors within the next two weeks, police spokesman Vance Mitchell said. From there, it is expected to be presented to a grand jury. In the meantime, Horn remains uncharged.

Texas law allows people to use deadly force to protect themselves if it is reasonable to believe they could otherwise be killed. In some cases, people also can use deadly force to protect their neighbors' property; for example, if a homeowner asks a neighbor to watch over his property while he's out of town.

At issue is whether it was reasonable for Horn to fear the men and whether his earlier threats on the 911 call showed he planned to kill them no matter what, said Fred C. Moss, who teaches criminal law at Southern Methodist University in Dallas.

Copyright 2007 The Associated Press. All rights reserved. This material may not be published, broadcast, rewritten or redistributed.

Those statements might bite him in the ass, but I'll shed no tears for the thieves.

[boz1911]

I don't care if it's a can of beans some theif is trying to steal.......still a theif

Unfurtunately this guy will have many legal issues, but I am glad he's in Texas, he'll have a chance.

Didn't we used to call people risking their lives for other people heros?

I, for one, still do

[ChrisStock]

Those statements might bite him in the ass, but I'll shed no tears for the thieves.

Ditto...the world has definitely moved on

[GentlemanJim]

His own words are his worst enemy.

I couldnt care less about the thieves..they are just as likely to murder you if you happen to be home when they rob you.

Have to hope he gets off even if his actions were not quite right.

Jim

[Flexmoney]

Is this the one where Quannell X (Black Panthers ?) came to town to "speak" and the locals rallied instead...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...85998&hl=en

[tightloop]

Is this the one where Quannell X (Black Panthers ?) came to town to "speak" and the locals rallied instead...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...85998&hl=en

Yes it is...but let's not aggitate this thread by involving Mr. X...could be some of us don't think much of him

[bountyhunter]

If I recall, texas is the last state where it is still legal to use deadly force to defend property. I'm not sure if it's legal to do it defending somebdoy else's property.....

[Alan Meek]

Is this the one where Quannell X (Black Panthers ?) came to town to "speak" and the locals rallied instead...

http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=-2...85998&hl=en

Yes it is...but let's not aggitate this thread by involving Mr. X...could be some of us don't think much of him

I kinda got that idea by watching the video.

Alan

[GentlemanJim]

Giggle ..

Jim

[zhunter]

I believe Florida has similar laws in the use of force.

Mr. Horn, I big well done from me!!!!!

But....

He shoulda just done it, and not talked so much. Call 911 after you're done

[AlamoShooter]

If I recall, texas is the last state where it is still legal to use deadly force to defend property. I'm not sure if it's legal to do it defending somebdoy else's property.....

That would be Texas with a Big T The only necessary point is that he thought he was in danger

I have a lawyer friend that has a -true- story about a reporter asking a Texas judge about still hanging horse thieves and some times a killer will go free. The Judge replied "In Texas we have some people that need killing, But we anint got No horses that need Stealing"

I wasn't born in Texas but I got here as quick as I could. JF

[JFD]

Defending property is legal in SC, and this guy would get away with this stunt with a SC jury, but anywhere except Texas and he'd be screwed.

I've known of at least one instance where he would have shot the neighbor's friends or relatives instead of theives.

[Coach]

Seems like justice was served. How long was Mr. Horn on the phone with dispatch any one have any idea?

[John Dunn]

The 911 call was on the internet somewhere, the one I listened to lasted about 7 minutes.

Society is becoming over-civilized if we spend one minute worrying about the bad guys, I'm glad they're dead.

[vluc]

Article

2 shot in Pasadena here illegally

1 man had been deported in '99; officials looking at possible ties to a burglary ring

By ROBERT CROWE

Copyright 2007 Houston Chronicle

Two burglary suspects shot by a Pasadena homeowner last month were illegal immigrants from Colombia, and one man had been deported nearly 10 years ago, authorities said Thursday.

Authorities also said they are investigating whether Diego Ortiz, 30, and Hernando Riascos Torres, 48, were part of a crime ring linked to burglaries and the use of fake immigration documents.

The two — killed by a Pasadena man Nov. 14 after he said they were trying to steal his neighbor's property — were in the country illegally, according to Leticia Zamarripa, a spokeswoman for the Bureau of Immigration and Customs Enforcement.

Joe Horn, 61, shot Ortiz and Torres, who went by the alias Miguel Antonio DeJesus. Horn called police after hearing breaking glass. He ignored an operator's warning to not go outside with his gun.

Pasadena Police Department Capt. A.H. "Bud" Corbett said Torres was deported to Colombia in 1999 after a 1994 cocaine-related conviction. He was on parole until 2017, Corbett said.

Police found a Puerto Rican identification card on Ortiz. He had two aliases.

Torres had identification cards from Colombia, Puerto Rico and the Dominican Republic. He had three aliases.

State and federal authorities are investigating whether the two men, who lived in southwest Houston, were involved in the crime ring, Corbett said.

Police found almost $2,000 in cash in a white bag the men allegedly took from the home in the 7400 block of Timberline before Horn shot them.

Investigators also are trying to determine whether the men knew about the home or family before burglarizing it.

"I don't believe the victim was a random choice ... but there's no evidence of a relationship either," between the homeowners and suspects, Corbett said.

Horn told the operator that he did not know his neighbors well. Neighbors said the family moved into the home next to Horn's house about four months ago.

"I can't comment," a woman at the home said over the phone Thursday night.

A source told police that Ortiz and Torres burglarized the home, in part, because the homeowners were immigrants.

"They targeted foreign-born people," Corbett said. "They felt they were easier victims."

Little is known about the homeowners, who have Vietnamese surnames.

Neighbors said they own a small business near their Village Grove East subdivision.

Records filed with the Office of the Secretary of State of Texas show that the family owns a dry cleaning business on Fairmont Parkway.

Horn has received an outpouring of support from some neighbors, friends and strangers, but the incident also has outraged activists and other neighbors.

Activists and Horn supporters clashed Sunday when they staged dueling protests outside his home. The homeowners association is trying to prevent more protests from being held in the subdivision.

[Coach]

The 911 call was on the internet somewhere, the one I listened to lasted about 7 minutes.

Society is becoming over-civilized if we spend one minute worrying about the bad guys, I'm glad they're dead.

Thanks. I agree about the worrying being overdone.

Just wondered where the police response was in a surburban area. In rural areas where I live it is a plain and simple fact that we are on our own. Seems the same may be true for the suburbs as well.

[tightloop]

Well, not to throw gasoline on the fire, but read today where the two guys that were shot by the guy in Pasadena were not only thieves, they were also ILLEGALS in the US and both had extensive criminal backgrounds...

Get so tired of reading what the deceased family and friends have to say about their deaths...to paraphrase: "Oh, they were hard working, loving spouses and fathers and the guy was too eager to shoot them, too eager.."...well hell, if you weren't a FREAKING THIEF, but someone who was in the US legally, had a job and was home with family and friends, and not doing a B&E somewhere perhaps they would not have met such an untimely demise....but that is just MHO...

Tightloop

[Gary1911A1]

You know I really don't care about the circumstances as long as the right people were killed. That's the way it was in SE Ky. when I was a kid. We had little crime. I wonder why.

[SiG Lady]

When I was doing the News (and other things radio-related) in Lewis County, WA (you know, the place that just had all the majorly flooding along the Interstate-5 corridor), the east side of the county is pretty rural and sparsely populated. The Sheriff's Office folks kinda just left them all on their own in that end of the county, and cruised out there about once a month "to pick up any bodies." They pretty much let the handful of rural folks in the area settle their own differences on their own terms. It was senseless--and expensive--to try and patrol the area way out in the boonies (and perhaps get hurt in the process), so they let the locals "take care of business" themselves. It was a practical solution.

[mlmiller1]

Can we hold a parade for Mr. Horn? It is unfortunate that he had to do this but if you point a gun at someone doing something illegal & they come toward you, they should get new holes put in various parts of their bodies.

I hope he comes through this ok because you know the anti-gunners are digging fervently & deep to find something to make him look like the bad guy & make those poor immigrants look like clean cut honest hard working people.

Good luck Mr. Horn. MLM

[Chills1994]

DISCLAIMER: I haven't read all the posts all the way through up to this point.

Bill O'Reilly covered this incident on his show the other night. Both victims were illegal alliens. Both had records. At least one of them came from the country of Columbia (ya know where the drug business is very big there). That guy had gotten busted on a drug related offense, served prison time in Texas, and I suppose was deported back down to Columbia.

Then he came back to the US, according to Bill O'Reilly.

If any of those two guys were picked up for spitting on the sidewalks or jaywalking, prior to getting shot by Joe Horn, I have no idea.

What Bill O'Reilly was getting was that if I.C.E. would do their job in the first place these illegals wouldn't be here, to either get shot and killed by legal US citizens or to commit other crimes..

(But that is Bill O'Reilly and I do know to take his "hype" or "furvor" with the proverbial grain of salt too.)

If this thing goes to trial, I wouldn't mind passing the hat and chipping in for his defense. That is if the people in Pasadena haven't already done so themselves.

[xdrocker]

I wish Mr. Horn the best of luck. I know it's wrong to wish bad upon peoplebut, I would some of these (hmm dont wont to get politcal here), well you know, would have a run in with some illegal that has in jail a couple times a keeps coming back illegally, maybe Then we could get something accomlished. I think Mr. Horn will be just fine.