cheers623 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Hello all. I am in a bit of a quandry right now. I am about to purchase an STI Tactical double stack from Dawson. I was going to get it in .45 but after talking to Dave Dawson a bit about this he strongly suggested the .40 version. The reason behind this was his experience with .45 Hi-cap mag tubes bulging when loaded to capacity. He said because of the depth of the support ribs being shallower on the .45 mag tubes than on the .40 tubes they were not quite as rigid and demanded more attention and maintenance. This gun is going to be a defense gun and get used hard so I thought that was a valid point when considering which caliber. I should say at this point I am not trying to start a .40 vs .45 stopping power debate because I feel that loaded with high quality defense ammo they will both get the job done. So, my question is this: in the STI Hi-cap platform specifically, what is your experience with reliability with regard to magazines and or pistol function. I had an STI Edge in .40 that was great but I long loaded everything for it to 1.185". I did rarely try factory ammo and it worked but I did not shoot much of this. Dave assures me that they set up the tacticals to fire factory .40 all the time and have proven reliability with the shorter ammo. Since I will be shooting factory defense ammo in this gun I want to KNOW that this is a non-issue. I have always been under the impression that the .45 ACP round was inherently more reliable in the 1911 design because it was designed around that cartridge. That was the reason I was originally going to go with .45. However, in the STI double stack mags could the .45 be a finnicky critter? I do know that my tuned mags for my EDGE in .40 worked great and took a lot of abuse. Obviously the number of reliable .40 rounds fired in competition in the 2011 platform is staggering but most of this ammo is long-loaded. The bonus of buying the gun in .40 would be similarity of feel between my limited gun and defense gun. Plus, I envision occasionally using this gun in matches to build my confidence with it under pressure. Having said that, I love the .45 round. Any wisdom on this? I can't afford 1 of each so I am stuck trying to decide, .40 or .45. Any personal experience with the aforementioned issues would be GREATLY appreciated. I also want to point out that I am not taking issue with anything Dave has said but am looking for other opinions and views to back this up or not. Thanks for your patience with a long and rambling post. All the best, Chris Olka TY-54513 DVC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 It is inherently better in a 1911 but not a 2011. Mags are a problem and in general the .40 is an amazing cartridge in the S_I frames. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 I had this same question before I got it. Kingman has it right. You won't be sorry with a .40. I have heard that while the original 1911 was built for the .45 ACP the high caps were mostly massaged more towards the .38 Super, and .40 being closer to that than the bigger pills, you get higher capacity and a cartridge centerline closer to bore center in the mag. Besides, how many .45 high caps do they build vs. .45's? They have 100x+ more experience with the "DO ALL" .40. Buy .40 with confidence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SteveZ Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Chris...if you've got 100 or so rounds of factory 40 and want to run it through my Edge sometime...your more than welcome to give it a try. My Edge has never choked yet (on good ammo) but then I got it from Dawson Precision. You're definately shopping with the right guy with Dave. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Huston in Austin Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 The .40's test fired at Dawson's are fired using factory length ammo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nm3gnr Posted October 19, 2007 Share Posted October 19, 2007 Chris, I have shot thousands of rounds of factory CCI Brass .40 and Winchester White box in my stock Edge. It does not seem to care. I think you can buy with confidence. Good Luck ! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I have an SV 45 hicap that I ended up with in a trade. I had the intention of selling it but took it to the range just to try it. I have used it as a carry gun ever since. I can load 14 +1 with aboslutely no problems. I am using SV mags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheers623 Posted October 20, 2007 Author Share Posted October 20, 2007 Thanks for the feedback so far. Keep it coming. Specifically anyone who has experience using factory ammo in their STI 2011 platforms. Thanks again in advance.............. Cheers!!!!!!!!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Loves2Shoot Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 All of my SVI's run factory ammo fine. Having a 2011 that doesn't is silly IMO. I think it is important to be able to go to the store and get match ammo in a pinch, especially if you ever travel to matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BSeevers Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 S_I .40 has more rd capacity and runs on all factory ammo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kingman Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 all properly built s-i's that I have seen run factory ammo. My open guns even will run white box without a problem Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
srf Posted October 20, 2007 Share Posted October 20, 2007 I started loading my STI 40 long, but changed to standard length so I could use the same ammo in a Glock. That was about 8 or so years ago. I shoot regularly (re: lots) and with two separate STI's I've never had one problem. I load 180gr JHP's with Winchester brass, Winchester small pistol primers, and Winchester spec'd OAL. This load is equivalent to Winchester factory over the chrono. I'd bet my life on an STI/SVI - and don't say that lightly (and I don't shoot my Glock much anymore either). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sniperboy Posted October 23, 2007 Share Posted October 23, 2007 (edited) I wish I read this before I got my double stack SVI in .45 I have only been informed of recently about why you don't see as many double stacks in .45 (correct me if I am wrong). I have had a high maintenance Para that needed new mag springs and a thorough constant cleaning (or I think it did). My SVI in .45 built by Smoking Hole is like a super ultra girlfriend. When she works it is just a dream and I feel like a superhero but when she's cranky OH LORD it takes constant troubleshooting and obsessing to get it to run. My issues range from bullets getting stuck in the tube (not rising up) to SWC rounds getting stuck on the feed ramp, not chambering... Sometimes the hammer not cocking back again (it is not hammer follow I think because it does not drop to half cock) Maybe it's just my gun not inherent design flaws, but the mag and feeding issues have been consistent with both pistols. ...true to form SHE DOES NOT SPEAK BACK TO ME to tell me what is wrong with her. This is great for troubleshooters and problem solvers who like to tinker with spring weights, cleaning and bullet dimensions. HORRIBLE for people who like to run things out of the box. For me, making my SVI be reliable 100% is a hobby in itself it's fun if I don't think about how much I put into the gun. YMMV - my experiences have been consistant.. but then again I bought used both times. Edited October 23, 2007 by Sniperboy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Johann the Horrible Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 I wish I read this before I got my double stack SVI in .45 I have only been informed of recently about why you don't see as many double stacks in .45 (correct me if I am wrong). I have had a high maintenance Para that needed new mag springs and a thorough constant cleaning (or I think it did). My SVI in .45 built by Smoking Hole is like a super ultra girlfriend. When she works it is just a dream and I feel like a superhero but when she's cranky OH LORD it takes constant troubleshooting and obsessing to get it to run. My issues range from bullets getting stuck in the tube (not rising up) to SWC rounds getting stuck on the feed ramp, not chambering... Sometimes the hammer not cocking back again (it is not hammer follow I think because it does not drop to half cock) Maybe it's just my gun not inherent design flaws, but the mag and feeding issues have been consistent with both pistols. ...true to form SHE DOES NOT SPEAK BACK TO ME to tell me what is wrong with her. This is great for troubleshooters and problem solvers who like to tinker with spring weights, cleaning and bullet dimensions. HORRIBLE for people who like to run things out of the box. For me, making my SVI be reliable 100% is a hobby in itself it's fun if I don't think about how much I put into the gun. YMMV - my experiences have been consistant.. but then again I bought used both times. Try 230 RN, no-one on my club shoots a .45 with SWC any more, they just don not feed as good as RN. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
boz1911 Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 As stated before the experience with 40 cal in the 2011 platform is mindboggling. I won't tell you reliable my gun is because it will sound like I'm bragging. 40 is THE way to go! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JFD Posted December 8, 2007 Share Posted December 8, 2007 You'll only regret buying a .45 for Limited. All these perfect feeding SVIs make you wonder why so many people load long.... ....OK, I load long for my Para even though it will feed factory ammo all day long Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cking Posted December 9, 2007 Share Posted December 9, 2007 Buy the Dawson tuned edge in either caliber you will be happy. However for match shooting 40. For self defense 45. Purpose of pistol is to give you time to get to the rifle or shotgun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chizzle Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I bought an STI Edge in .40 from Brazos (for Limited) and an STI Tactical in .45 (for bowling pin shooting). Both run great, but I did have some issues with the double stack .45 magazines when I got the Tactical. I found that I got 4 (yes 4!) STI magazines where the feed lips were too tight, which resulted in some FTF's. After I opened up the magazine lips 0.010 to 0.015", my .45 runs just as well as my .40. The .45 magazines do bulge a little when loaded to capacity. This makes them not drop free (when fully loaded) and makes them load a little slowly when fully loaded. This isn't a big deal to me, as I only load the magazines to 8 rounds for bowling pin shooting, or to 10 rounds for L10. When loaded under maximum capacity, they work just fine. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aircooled6racer Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 Hello: I am making a 45acp top end for my STI right now. It will be used for IDPA and limited to either 8 or 10 rounds depending on the class I shoot so mag bulging should not be an issue. I think the 45 should work as well as the 40 if all is correct. The advantage the 40 has is more used parts out there and you can carry more rounds. They say the same thing for 1911's in 40 vs 45. I never had any problems with the 40 single stack when the mags were correct. Since you already load for 40 I would stick with 40. Hope this helps some. Thanks, Eric Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chirpy Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 I have 2 Para's in .45 (.40 S&W didn't exist when I had them built). My smith tuned the mags when he built the guns and has never had to do anything to them since. I even added Dawson base pads with no problems or retuning. Limited gun has thousands thru it. No problems with good ammo. Richard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted May 13, 2008 Share Posted May 13, 2008 All of my SVI's run factory ammo fine. Having a 2011 that doesn't is silly IMO. I think it is important to be able to go to the store and get match ammo in a pinch, especially if you ever travel to matches. Amen brother ! I have a 6"40 Eagle from Dawsons runs fine with factory tubes American Eagle FMJ's and Magtech Hollowpoints. The only reason I long load is because everyone else does and my home built single stack .40 wont run on less than 1.160 ammo so I load 1.170 ammo and it works in everything. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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