n2299 Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Is it bad on my pistol's trigger job to use my thumb to cock the hammer when my dry firing? I had always racked my slide before. But recently I started using full mags of snap caps when I dry fire. And I found it easier to cock the hammer with my thumb because then I don't have to keep bending over to pick up the ejected caps. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bountyhunter Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 No, it doesn't hurt the trigger job to cock the hammer with your thumb. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 It's not bad for the hammer, but it's bad for your thumb when you miss the hammer and slice it open on your razor sharp Bomars - as I discovered yesterday when I looked down and saw the back of my gun dripping in blood. Those damn sights are so sharp I never felt a thing. Now, where did I leave my files...? Seriously, they put serrations on hammers for a reason. It's not a problem. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
n2299 Posted March 25, 2003 Author Share Posted March 25, 2003 Wow, that was quick! Thanks for the replies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Garrett Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Eric, you need to do something about those Bomars. Just be sure to paint over them if you file the corners. Nothing worse than glare from your bright shiny rear sight : ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ron Ankeny Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I pull the trigger and rack the slide because that's what a couple of big dawgs told me to do. Don't know why though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Racking the slide operates the disconnector, which changes the trigger feel of a good trigger job a tiny amount. Poor trigger jobs may vary.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
2alpha Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I beg to differ, a good trigger job will feel the same always. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ErikW Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 I do both, mostly thumb-cocking. I'll sometimes rack the slide with trigger held back so I can feel the reset. That reset is very important to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted March 25, 2003 Share Posted March 25, 2003 Well, here is one tidbit of information... Kuhnhausen Vol. 1 Sear Protection p. 161 "Remember that a finely tuned sear has an engagement surface that is only about .009 to .010 wide, and, being this thin, is very easily damaged. It's both practical and wise to hold the trigger back [holding the sear out of the way] whenever the slide is cycled for any reason. You automatically do this when firing the pistol." Those Kuhnhausen book are handy! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
glockster96 Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 What's this hammer thing you guys are talking about, and where can I find it on my Glock? J/K. Like Ron, I had heard that you should cycle the slide when dry firing. Don't know why, though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Detlef Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 yeah, I have those 2 books, too, and hold the trigger back while cocking with the thumb. Not sure whether this is engraining a bad habit, though.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EricW Posted March 26, 2003 Share Posted March 26, 2003 OK, I can buy the notion of *possibly* damaging my hammer or sear if I was using chintzy case-hardened parts. I find it pretty far-fetched that the typical S-7 toolsteel that most of us are using in racegun parts will be affected to any meaningful degree. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kevin Kline Posted March 30, 2003 Share Posted March 30, 2003 I know the Army's Markmanship Unit Shooting Team does (or used to do this) this when they are loading up. If you watch them on the line after "Load and make ready", they insert a mag, pull the trigger and rack the slide. I know they do so because it disconnects the sear and is the proper "military" way of loading a 1911 (or so I've been told), but I'm a little unsure of pulling the trigger and racking the slide. My luck, I'd do so at the Nationals and the gun would AD and I'd be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ong45 Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 The thing to do is to hold the trigger, rack the slide and then insert a loaded mag. No more RO worries. P.S. Don't forget to rack the slide again after inserting mag James Ong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nolan Posted March 31, 2003 Share Posted March 31, 2003 During dry fire practice hand cycling the slide shouldn't damage the trigger job unless you're letting the slide go forward entirely by recoil spring pressure. I hand cycle the slide most of the time to cock the trigger and thumb cock only if I'm not going to reholster the gun. I never let the slide go forward under spring power and generally only move the slide far enough to just cock the hammer. That's pretty easy to do on a race gun with a light recoil spring and a non-functional slide stop! A 16-18 pound recoil spring and I probably would be thumb cocking 100% of the time. I don't hold the trigger back or try to hold the hammer with my thumb when loading the gun. I see both as a way to earn an early trip home. Nolan Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IPSCDRL Posted January 6, 2004 Share Posted January 6, 2004 I know the Army's Markmanship Unit Shooting Team does (or used to do this) this when they are loading up. If you watch them on the line after "Load and make ready", they insert a mag, pull the trigger and rack the slide. I know they do so because it disconnects the sear and is the proper "military" way of loading a 1911 (or so I've been told), but I'm a little unsure of pulling the trigger and racking the slide. My luck, I'd do so at the Nationals and the gun would AD and I'd be done. And just how the heck do they do that without being DQ'd under 10.3.11? You wouldn't have to AD in this situation to warrant a DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 At LAMR, I see a lot of people thumb cock (w/o holding back the trigger) prior to racking in their first round. Does this do anything other than make the slide a tad easier to rack? About a month ago I got my 40S&W Para LDA Limited, which came with a burred Commander spur on the hammer. The manual says, though, that thumb cocking the LDA will damage it. Different lockwork, I know, but interesting, especially because: A new shooter at our club just bought an identical LDA, but says his model has a spurless hammer, which, I presume, was done to make thumbcocking impossible. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gmshtr Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 You know, if you just keep a 3-4 lb trigger on your gun, none of this becomes an issue! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JasonK Posted January 7, 2004 Share Posted January 7, 2004 About a month ago I got my 40S&W Para LDA Limited, which came with a burred Commander spur on the hammer. The manual says, though, that thumb cocking the LDA will damage it. The potential for damage is because the grip safety locks the hammer down. Now using just one hand, like most do, try to hold the grip safety down completely and thumb cock your hammer. Then touch your elbow to your nose! That is why they don't want you to thumb cock your pistol. You can hold down the grip safety and cock the gun with your weak hand. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted January 8, 2004 Share Posted January 8, 2004 You can hold down the grip safety and cock the gun with your weak hand. Which is what I do any way when dryfiring my other (SA) Paras. Thanks for the clarification Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Well, here is one tidbit of information...Kuhnhausen Vol. 1 Sear Protection p. 161 "Remember that a finely tuned sear has an engagement surface that is only about .009 to .010 wide, and, being this thin, is very easily damaged. It's both practical and wise to hold the trigger back [holding the sear out of the way] whenever the slide is cycled for any reason. You automatically do this when firing the pistol." Those Kuhnhausen book are handy! This is old information, from a time when the only way to get a decently light trigger pull on a 1911 was to seriously lessen the hammer/sear engagement. By contrast, with the extreme smoothness that comes from today's top quality, EDM cut hammers and sears, you can't get a trigger pull over about 3-1/2 pounds without doing things like bending the sear spring. And that's from a hammer where the hooks are still full size. Holding the trigger to the rear is simply a crutch for a crappy trigger job. It's also, in my opinion, dangerous. What happens if you ever get confused and change, "Hold the trigger to the rear, cycle the action" into "Cycle the action, hold the trigger to the rear"? BOOM!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Duane Thomas Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 Now using just one hand, like most do, try to hold the grip safety down completely and thumb cock your hammer. Then touch your elbow to your nose! That is why they don't want you to thumb cock your pistol.You can hold down the grip safety and cock the gun with your weak hand. I was taught from the beginning that, unless there's some pressing reason to do so, you should never break your master grip once acquired. IOW, why thumb cock with the master hand thumb? It's not terribly ergonomically efficient as far as getting the hammer cocked easily, and requires breaking and reacquiring the master grip every time you thumb cock. Just hold the gun in your master hand and thumb cock with the support hand thumb. Much more efficient. My dry fire is of two types: (1) Draw, reload, transitions, during all of which I thumb cock before reholstering simply because it's faster and easier than cycling the action. (2) Just focusing on trigger control, with a two-hand grip, SHO and WHO, during which I cycle the action while holding the trigger to the rear so I can then practice hitting the trigger reset. So I do it both ways, for different reasons, in different types of practice. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevin c Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 thread drift... So, Duane, do you have to break your master grip to drop the mag on a reload? I see a lot of people do that - shifting the gun in the hand in order to get the thumb on the release, even if it is a light, extended one. Then, of course, they have to reacquire their firing grip. I have small hands, and the move for my thumb is way too much. I do what Merle Edington does: I use my middle finger of my strong hand. I can get onto the release w/o shifting my grip at all. drift off... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TDean Posted January 11, 2004 Share Posted January 11, 2004 You guys are awesome, I never would have thought about this.... It seems the do's and don't of this subject both have valid points. Cocking the hammer without holding the trigger back keeps the top half of the sear riding against the hammer's surface. With a 14oz, thinly faced sear this could eventually wear or deform enough material to noticeably impact performance. Holding the trigger rotates the sear's business end away from the hammer's surface when the hammer cocks (just like when firing). As Phil said, with a conservatively stoned sear, the theoretical wearing of material becomes a non-issue because it's a very small percentage of the total sear face (unless you want to baby your equipment ) If you choose to save-the-sear, it seems that the only legal way to do this is to perform the step before you’ve inserted a loaded magazine. If you load your mag, hold the trigger and chamber a round, you've just had your finger inside the guard when loading. As IPSCDRL said, Rule 10.3.11 reads: "Failure to keep finger outside triggerguard during loading or unloading" Did I get that all right? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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