07 OPEN / L10 Nationals after-match reviews

[Loves2Shoot]

I liked the shooting, wasn't keen on the "hokey" stuff that went along with it.

We had a great squad and it was as good as it gets as far as that went, the folks were great and the weather was fabulous.

Oh yea, the buzzer stage (big fat zero because I didn't press it after a malf on the draw), a toe over the fault line on the prone stage, and forgetting to take my safety off on the coin stage kept me out the top 16 in L10. 1 D and 2 mikes (stage 10) for the match and think I shot about 95% of the points, which I should have at the snails pace I was running.

[geezer-lock]

At the awards Rob Leatham asked " How many of you missed the bucket!" His next question was, did you chase it?

Guess what his answer was to each question?

Another Nationals Moment.

David C

Edited June 26, 2007 by geezer-lock

[mike cyrwus]

The spiderman, pirates of the caribbean, and shrek tablecloths draped all over that one stage were very cheesy.

[Still Praying]

My 2 cents may be a little hard on this match but, keep in mind that I'm only posting this in hopes that next years match will be better. I know that a lot off poeple worked very hard to put on this match for us and I am very thankful.

The staff, RO's, my squad 31 and Missoula were great . Oh and I thought the match moved very well.

The rest of the match? Tell me if I'm wrong.

Very few vendors and goodys to look at or buy. I guess gas prices kept the other ones at home. Thanks to the ones that did show up.

1 mile hike from stage 9 to 10 because your blocked in and can't get your car out, or you did car pool like they said and the car was on the other side of the range.

180 lines at a 45 degree angle because, not enough bays = to many DQ's.

I can't say I saw any eye candy. I thought the 07 USPSA NATIONALS would look better than it did. It didn't look like a professional sport at all. I don't think we'll see much of this match on TV.

This buzzer stage should have been thrown out, or never put in. What's wrong with holding a beer mug without spilling it?

The life jacket thing was asking for a DQ or worse on the draw.

Dark Palace should have had forward falt lines. I wouldn't say this stage was shooter friendly. The frist day shooters got the shaft on this one.

I think I've said to much already so I'll stop here. Don't take this stuff wrong, I mean well for the sport and all who work to put on these matches. It just don't look like their was enough planing for this match. The only problem I saw last year in Tulsa was the forward falling poppers. It looks like they fixed that this year, so maybe they will fix these problems too.

Ronnie

[Mr Glack]

I got a tidbit I just remembered - Henning told me he didn't go prone on stage 12, he knelt !!

He's taller than I am by 2", and apparently qualified as a Barnum & Bailey contortionist. I think my back would slip a disc if I tried that.

I watched one competitor go left first... then take a knee for the right hand shots (i.e., half way heading to prone) ... then go to his right shoulder for the center low port. Thought that was a pretty clever way to economize the body travel to prone position.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Mr Glack

[mike cyrwus]

Dark Palace should have had forward falt lines. I wouldn't say this stage was shooter friendly. The frist day shooters got the shaft on this one.

This was my first stage of the match; what was the deal with it? Did others find a trick to it?

(looking at my time relative to others, Im sure they did)

[Schutzenmeister]

7 DQs out of 163 L10 shooters and 7 DQs out of 227 Open shooters. Is this typical?

"Typical" DQ's in a major match are usually in the 2-3% range of all shooters ... 14 shooters out of 390 works out to about 3.6% ... A little high, but not terribly unexpected (unfortunately!)

[Bret Heidkamp]

Dark Palace should have had forward falt lines. I wouldn't say this stage was shooter friendly. The frist day shooters got the shaft on this one.

This was my first stage of the match; what was the deal with it? Did others find a trick to it?

(looking at my time relative to others, Im sure they did)

Draw, shoot the plate, shoot T1 on the way to the middle aisle. run up middle aisle, shooting T6-T9 as you get closer and continue angle shots into T11, T10, T12 as you come to a screeching halt in front of T6. Then finish up on angle shots at T5-T2. Took me high 13's but I had a slow makeup shot on T3 after I noted a miss. So, likely would be low 13's for me. Could have gone faster on the run and my reaction to downing the plate P1.

[bgary]

14 shooters out of 390 works out to about 3.6% ... A little high, but not terribly unexpected

Yup. And no real pattern to them, unless you count the 180's on stage 7, where the stage design tempted right-handed shooters to reload while moving to the left.

I noticed that there were 3 or 4 "oh crap!" DQs in the mix, too. 3 people got the sequence wrong on "turn, then draw...", and one person apparently didn't drop the mag before showing clear, resulting in a "bang" on "if clear, hammer down..."

ymmv

B

[Sharyn]

This was my first stage of the match; what was the deal with it? Did others find a trick to it?

(looking at my time relative to others, Im sure they did)

There's a video of Lisa Munson shooting that stage in my montage thingy.

I, too, have quite a few gripes about the match... but I'm going to bite my e-tongue for the most part. Hokey factor was extremely high. Why were we wearing a life vest anyhow??? Where was the kayak??? And the river wasn't nearly close enough for any of us to drown in while shooting the stage...

The hard working staff was awesome. A huge THANK YOU to all that worked the match!

[TRNinTX]

Very few vendors and goodys to look at or buy. I guess gas prices kept the other ones at home. Thanks to the ones that did show up.

Most vendors had to have their goods shipped ahead of time due to the location.

Dark Palace should have had forward falt lines. I wouldn't say this stage was shooter friendly. The frist day shooters got the shaft on this one.

I don't think you can say you got the shaft just because no one on your squad thought about shooting the stage that way. Besides, KC shot it straight up without running and finished 3rd at 95% and Todd did the same and finished 4th.

[Bret Heidkamp]

Besides, KC shot it straight up without running and finished 3rd at 95% and Todd did the same and finished 4th.

Actually I could swear KC ran forward and shot it in 11 secs, and I know I then watched Todd shoot it straight up in 12 secs. I remember being amazed at how fast KC can move. He's like a darn gazelle. I also remember being amazed at how fast the time was by shooting it without running up, given how precise the long shots needed to be.

We had another M on our squad shoot it in 12 also without running, he finished 7th on that stage! So, running was not necessarily a huge speed advantage, just a lot of fun to hose. Our squad was shooting with pretty mixed results at this time, so several of us were "I don't care anymore, I just want to smoke some targets!" and took out our frustrations on this stage.

Edited June 26, 2007 by Bret Heidkamp

[Athena]

I opted to run up for several reasons: 1) I can't transition at partial targets from further back as fast as the guys, which translates to slower splits=slower overall time, 2) I can't hit AS accurately if I tried to shoot fast from further back and 3) I just want to run and shoot really fast I ended up with 14 sec dropping 3 points, I think. This was more of strategy on our (the ladies) part to kinda see how we can turn weaknesses into strengths.

And besides, KC and Todd are not human anyways

[XRe]

Finally back in computer range, after a week in Yellowstone after the match

Actually, the only really big detractor for me in the whole thing was the construction at the match hotel. When I arrived, there was no carpet in the hallway on the 4th floor... That got partially rectified during the course of the week, but... Someone needs to slap the folks at that hotel. There were trip hazards all over the place, and it just looked hokey. Doing construction of that sort during the busy season??? Not so smart... Obviously, not a ding on the match at all... just on the Holiday Inn Parkside

Stage 16 was set up to be gameable - the ROs apparently didn't appreciate it, based on their comments of "let the bullets do the running for you"... I can't say I really blame them I ended up in mid-14s on it, with a "stay back" strategy, cause I had to take two shots at the plate (1.14 split between them), and make up two shots down range. After looking at the timer, if I'd simply executed well, it would have been a mid-12 time with decent points. I saw a bunch of Ds and a few misses from folks who ran up and tried to hose angled targets (A-zones got smaller than the long direct shots when you ran down the hall). I also saw Mike Voigt about come through the hallway as he tried to scoot down the hall, so... Plus, I was using one of my strengths, here - lately, I seem to be setting up very well, even on long shots (I shot the first two poppers on Stage 5 on the move as I settled into position, so...).

Overall, I think the match was the high quality Nationals level match that we have come to expect. Like most big matches, there were a few hitches, mostly logistical in nature at this match. Hindsight gives great clarity, in this case - planning a match with a 1/2 mile "switch" in the middle of at least one day's shooting for the vast majority of the squads (on a range with a known shortage of parking) maybe wasn't the best decision for squad schedule arrangements. I think this range could work much better with a different squadding arrangement in this regard - but for the most part, I think everyone dealt with it pretty well. I'll also say that, if parking needs to be as far from the ranges as it was on the upper range bays (1-9) and if squads have to switch sides like they did this time, arranging for a shuttle of some form between the parking area and shooting bays, as well as between halves of the range, would be a big time saver for everyone involved. If you had to park at the end of the 300 yard rifle range that was doubling as a parking area, you had basically a 600-700 yard walk (that's almost half a mile) to bay 1 from there - and with no ability to have a golf cart or a 4-wheeler or anything, that's a long way to go when trying to switch sides of the range.

I felt like the stage construction was mostly on par with last year's Open Nats in Tulsa. Stage 8 did have cheesy theme stuff on it, as has been said - I actually used that to my advantage, though, as it gave great visual aid to where targets were going to appear as I moved I like the look of these "black mesh" (window screen??) walls - very understated and professional looking. I think they would have looked a bit better if the wood had been painted black as was done in Tulsa last year, but other than that, they looked fine.

Stage design was pretty well done. They were challenging, unforgiving stages. Yes, there was perhaps an abundance of prop-tossing (literally) and monkey-motions - things that challenge more than pure shooting skills. In the end, I don't think they detracted from the shooting in a heinous fashion. However, I'll agree with some of the others that stage 17 was over the top with it (BTW - someone on our squad determined the best way to press the button seemed to be to use your thumb with your hand wrapped around the handle of the box - and then use the handle to force your thumb down onto the button... Bob Londrigan pointed that out to me, but I don't know if he innovated it or not...). I didn't run into issues with 17, so no sour grapes on my part, there. Some of the things, like the life jacket, and such, maybe ought to be considered carefully before using them again, due to higher safety risk in using those sorts of props. And, I'd consider finding ways to design stages that didn't require the 180 to be canted to the side when putting two stages in a bay - it was possible for a competitor breaking the 180 to point a muzzle back into the crowd on some stages, and that's just not a comfortable thing...

I felt like the prize table was actually a bit deeper than last year. I finished 20th last year, and the wide body frames were long gone before I got there. This time, I placed 25th, and the last wide body frame was picked up by James Ong, who placed 23rd. I would've gotten a frame last year off of this prize table (there were single stack frames left last year, but I have no need to build a single stack). I picked up a C-More gift certificate again this year.

I agree that awards went well, the match staff were generally cheery and fun to hang out with. Squad 20 was a total hoot - this was the "second super squad", mostly comprised of GMs, with a couple of Ms and an A. Everyone worked hard, and no one seemed to be taking things too seriously. I'd gladly shoot with any of those guys again.

My match was something of a roller coaster. I shot well the first and last days (so, 7 stages... including a GM run on Madness). The middle two days, I managed to hang out 7 penalties on 6 stages, and have a couple of somewhat serious brain farts, as well. I figured out my problem on the last stage on Friday, and turned it around for my last 5 stages. In the end - a near miss on Stage 5 (that I called in the A-zone, but had crept just over into the hardcover, and inch or so to the left of where I called the hit) drove me into "trying" mode, and I was over doing my stage prep, and really trying to control things. When I finally noted that, and lightened up on it, my focus returned, and I started shooting well again. Important lesson. Also, even though I finished 5 places lower this year, I finished a percent higher in the match standings than my performance last year (thanks, BryanW for pointing that out ). I think that demonstrates the difficulty of the match, in the end.

In the end, I enjoyed the heck out of the match. The range is a beautiful facility, sited near a nice little town that was fun to explore when we weren't at the range. If we have a big match there again (which I think is totally do-able), some improvements in the squad schedule planning (and maybe if we can use more of the range - or investigate building a couple of more berms for them, or....) would make it run a little bit more smoothly, and fix most everyone's gripes.

Oh, so as to not be a "griper without solutions", my fix for the squad schedule would be this.... There are 18 squad schedule slots per rotation (with 2 rotations), with 18 "bays". 9 of the "bays" are at the east end of the range, and 9 are at the west end. Each squad shoots a schedule like: 3 bays on Wednesday, 6 bays on Thursday, 6 bays on Friday, 3 bays on Saturday. It seems easy to separate that into two "nines" with sort of a mini-rotation on each half of the range. This avoids having to swap sides mid-day. For squads 1, 10, 19, and 28, nothing changes. For the rest, though, instead of swapping sides of the range when they reach the end of the half they're on, they rotate back to stage 1 or 10. So, squad 9, starting in bay 9 (and using the match layout from this Nationals), would shoot the stages like so: 9, 1, and 2 on Weds, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7, and 8 on Thurs, 17/18, 10, 11, 12, 13, and Chrono on Friday, and 14, 15, and 16 on Saturday. Squad 27 would follow the same schedule, but on the opposite rotation, etc. That reduces the road traffic mid-match by quite a bit, and eliminates concerns about finding parking on the other end of the range, and rushing to get to the next stage when you have to switch.

[zhunter]

Geez Dave, I felt like I was reading War and Peace

[XRe]

Geez Dave, I felt like I was reading War and Peace

I had a lot of time to think about it before posting...

Besides, haven't you read my other stuff??

[dfwmiket]

Welcome back........... enough of the shooting stuff, where are the Yellowstone pics?

-Mike

[XRe]

Welcome back........... enough of the shooting stuff, where are the Yellowstone pics?

-Mike

Being burned to DVD as I type... Then I can start the editing process, etc I'd hate to lose anything right off the bat... I'll link to them when I get some up... Should have some pics from the match, too

[Chuck Anderson]

That squad schedule was the way they did it for the Area 1 match there in 2005. I have no idea why they didn't use it this year. That was the worst part was trying to haul butt between ranges and the lousy parking.

[HI5-O]

I'll add a couple of items:

1) Wish there were safety areas in each bay since there was a lot of "drive by" dust clouds.

2) Wish the "function check range" was a little bigger and more like the one at Tulsa.

Overall, I had a lot of fun at this match even if I messed up the simple stages by doing stupid things. Should have read Steve Anderson's book before shooting the match instead of on the plane ride home.

The people in Montana were fantastic. Genuinely friendly and service oriented (dare I say, better than where I live ). I would go back there again for a big match.

Thanks,

Barry

[Bret Heidkamp]

I have to say the RO staff was great. Even on the last day, they were super. I don't remember running into any attitudes, and the match ran smooth from that perspective. I can't imagine RO-ing for 4 days straight.

[shred]

The people in Montana were fantastic. Genuinely friendly and service oriented (dare I say, better than where I live ). I would go back there again for a big match.

+1 on that. Even in the whole-grains-and-birkenstocks-type places, shooting (and even hunting) didn't carry a big stigma with it. Pretty cool. We even used the Big Sky brewery (mmmm... Moose Drool...) sponsorship coupon..

Coffee and espresso were also everywhere, and that's a good thing.

[n2ipsc]

...Even in the whole-grains-and-Birkenstock's-type places, shooting (and even hunting) didn't carry a big stigma with it...

It is indeed a unique environment where Starbucks baristas openly and socially query USPSA-badged patrons in depth, take business cards and weblinks to our site, don't turn pale or get the vapors about - eek - guns, and come out to the range to spectate.

In the tofu and granola nirvana of my home town, they might, just might, take your money, but any conversation would be most abrupt, and disapproving glances would be - and are - abundant...

Yes, I could live in Missoula, thanks...

[vrmn1]

I opted to run up for several reasons: 1) I can't transition at partial targets from further back as fast as the guys, which translates to slower splits=slower overall time, 2) I can't hit AS accurately if I tried to shoot fast from further back and 3) I just want to run and shoot really fast I ended up with 14 sec dropping 3 points, I think. This was more of strategy on our (the ladies) part to kinda see how we can turn weaknesses into strengths.

And besides, KC and Todd are not human anyways

Congratulations on your win.

[cardiacjack]

Greetings from Missoula, Montana via Malad, Idaho. My first nationals ( open / L-10 ) is complete. If you really want proof of what our sport is , attend one. The hours put into setting up a nationals match is beyond count. The setup crew took a beautiful facility ( deer creek shooting range) and made it spectacular. The logistics in not only getting the match to be in missoula is amzing, but setting up 18 stages that would try anyone's shooting abilty. The weather was as cooperating as it could ever be. The only minor glitches were the deer that liked to frequently step into a live course of fire. Now for details, I would like to personally thank Smith and Wesson for donating a M and P pistol that was given away at the match staff appreciation dinner. I was the fortunate one to recieve the pistol. Thanks Julie, Jerry,and Doug. The professionalism of both shooters and staff was unbelievable and their gratitude was truly felt. The stats shack does a job that would probably drive most people to drink, so my hats off to them. It was unbelievable to watch and RO the super squads, but the most fun I had was RO'ng Rich Redovian with a fantastic run in my 24 round count stage. Running Rich was like sitting directly behind John Force in his dragster. Rich, you definitely are a prop killer . I also got to shoot after the match Saul Kisrch's open gun ( cal 9 X 23 ). An observation I have made is i need to invest in a good set of baseball cleats. more than 2/3 of the shooters wore them. watching Todd Jarrett, he had shot the stage he was on at a minimum of five times before the buzzer goes off. Julie Golowski shot in L-10, 45 acp and factory 230 g fmj, she is definitely an Iron woman. If you haven't already, take an RO course. And carry a rule book with you ( and a decent overlay). Spend the 3 bucks and have an extra copy of the rules too. The match was hard work which I am glad is over ( imagine running a COF 260 times over 3 days) but I would not say no if asked to RO again. I never would have thought that this sport would be fun even if you are not shooting. One more thing , we are the safest sport that involves firearms. To the best of my knowledge, no one recieved any gun injuries, possibly only injuring themselves by not staying hydrated. and to finish out my rant, the super squads do0 their share to tape and paint between shooters and it does not seem to bother their shooting. It's kind of a given that if you are on deck, you shouldn't tape or paste but prepare yourself for the stage. well, to all shooters,

ALL A'S,

SCOTT J CLARK JR

TY48526 (RO)