Reliable Self-defense Gun

[sam sanfilippo]

A couple of years ago, I bought a Glock because everyone I talked to said that it would be a reliable self defense gun. Unfortunately, my Glock jammed whenever I tried to use hollowpoints in it. After 27000 rounds of trying everthing I could think of to make it work (including sending it back to Glock for repairs) I finally sold it. I am now trying to find another gun. I've been renting some 1911s, but so far the results have not been encourageing. Many of the rental guns jammed even with round nosed full metal jacket bullets. I want a full sized steel frame gun, preferably in .45 ACP. It may as well be a single stack, since I live in California. What would you recommend?

[flycaster]

name='sam sanfilippo' date='Apr 17 2007, 03:37 PM' post='542830']

A couple of years ago, I bought a Glock because everyone I talked to said that it would be a reliable self defense gun. Unfortunately, my Glock jammed whenever I tried to use hollowpoints in it. After 27000 rounds of trying everthing I could think of to make it work (including sending it back to Glock for repairs) I finally sold it. I am now trying to find another gun. I've been renting some 1911s, but so far the results have not been encourageing. Many of the rental guns jammed even with round nosed full metal jacket bullets. I want a full sized steel frame gun, preferably in .45 ACP. It may as well be a single stack, since I live in California. What would you recommend?

Sam- since you've had problems with some autoloaders, why not consider a revolver? A .357 wheelie would give you plenty of self-defense firepower, and would be my odds-on fave for SHTF reliability. I'd pick a 3" Smith k frame, given my druthers. If not to be carried, a 4" in either a K or L or, my personal pick, a Ruger GP. Sorry about that California thing- but I'm in Ill-annoys, where all the politicians have armed guards, so we common folk don't need to carry a gun!

BTW- I just sold my Glock 19- it occasionally had a mind of its own, and that ain't good!

Chuck

[SiG Lady]

" I want a full sized steel frame gun, preferably in .45 ACP."

Well, just about everyone knows what I would recommend... a 1911. And you could even choose the Commander styled 1911 with the slightly shorter barrel if you wish. But a full-size 1911 is a winner. (Those rental blasters may be worn, used, abused, ill-kept... who knows.)

The Sig Sauer line of semi-autos are superbly reliable, too, as duty or defense guns but have an alloy frame (if you're being fussy about the all-steel aspect). Neither the 1911 nor the Sig will be cheap, but you want a good gun, right...?

[gringop]

I would recommend one of the base Kimber models and use Wilson 8 round mags with 7 rounds in the mags. I have had 3 Kimbers and they ran great with every kind of ammo that I fed them.

Keep the gun and the mags reasonably clean, shoot em at matches to make sure they run under all conditions and don't worry about it.

Thanks, Gringop

[BR]

Sam-

I don't intend to be an @$$, but:

Intent

This Forum is for firearm, technique, and conceptual discussions pertaining to training and competition. (And various unrelated topics.) While the occasional defensive shooting post is not prohibited, in general, defensive shooting discussions or debates are discouraged.

As you consistently suffer jams with both glocks and 1911s, perhaps you could benefit from some adjustment in your technique. Just a thought, and not a criticism.

Cheers,

-br

[AikiDale]

Welcome to the forums Sam.

Almost all production guns could use an examination and perhaps tweaking, by a gunsmith to insure reliability. We like to think we pay enough for the darn things they should work and generally they do but we are talking mass produced, lawyer proof machines here.

As you read through the forums you will note several gunsmiths who work on 1911 or Glock or whatever pistols. Pick the caliber and gun you like best, purchase it from or send it to one of these fellows for a looksee and tune up and you should be good to go.

[Azone41]

I have a few guns. That said, I keep a little 5 shot Rossi 38 special (my only revolver) on the bedside table because I know it will work when I pull the trigger. I really think my 120 lb Akita (Cosmo) wouldn't let them get to the bedroom anyway.

Edited April 17, 2007 by Azone41

[sslav]

I do not mean to sound lika a Glock groupie but I have run about 15K of Zero JHPs through my Glocks without an issue. I had some problems with truncated cone bullets, but reducing OAL seems to take care of that. (I load JHPs to 1.135, but for TC I go down to 1.125). Never had any issues at all with factory loads of any kind.

Do you reload?

What kind of jam is it?

Slav

A couple of years ago, I bought a Glock because everyone I talked to said that it would be a reliable self defense gun. Unfortunately, my Glock jammed whenever I tried to use hollowpoints in it. After 27000 rounds of trying everthing I could think of to make it work (including sending it back to Glock for repairs) I finally sold it. I am now trying to find another gun. I've been renting some 1911s, but so far the results have not been encourageing. Many of the rental guns jammed even with round nosed full metal jacket bullets. I want a full sized steel frame gun, preferably in .45 ACP. It may as well be a single stack, since I live in California. What would you recommend?

[racerba]

... my Glock jammed whenever I tried to use hollowpoints in it. After 27000 rounds ... I've been renting some 1911s, but so far the results have not been encourageing. Many of the rental guns jammed even with round nosed full metal jacket bullets...

Of the 27,000 rounds, what was the percentage of jams were you getting? Since you are experiencing jams with all types of gun (especially a Glock), have you ever thought that it might be your technique? I would have somebody experienced look at your technique while you are shooting. It might be that you are limp wristing, or riding the slide, or, whatever.

[Hallmatt]

I have an HK USP compact in .45 for defense. It shoots great and I haven't had any failures.

[Wakal]

STI's make nice carry guns

[dirtypool40]

1. It's technique. My dad is bigger than I am and can dot an "i" like nobody's business, but can jam / malf ANY auto loader I put in his hands.

Almost any MODERN, brand name auto is reliable enough for self defense, Various 1911's, Sig, Berreta, XD, M&P, yes, even a Glock. As mentioned ad nauseum, Glocks run, but they are also benfactors of a GREAT marketing campeign and good timing, convincing the world that they are the only gun that runs, and 1911's never do.

My personal experience is "somewhat" contrary to this.

[Chuck Merriam]

Wilson ADP

Don't laugh or respond until you have shot one!

You can hear the round rattle in the chamber

but it shoots one ragged hole, holds ten rounds,

comes with night sights, and is pretty small.

It will also fit in smaller hands...like the wife's.

It is a 9mm but we all know that is enough.

Not sure on the Cal. thing.

[G-ManBart]

A couple of years ago, I bought a Glock because everyone I talked to said that it would be a reliable self defense gun. Unfortunately, my Glock jammed whenever I tried to use hollowpoints in it. After 27000 rounds of trying everthing I could think of to make it work (including sending it back to Glock for repairs) I finally sold it. I am now trying to find another gun. I've been renting some 1911s, but so far the results have not been encourageing. Many of the rental guns jammed even with round nosed full metal jacket bullets. I want a full sized steel frame gun, preferably in .45 ACP. It may as well be a single stack, since I live in California. What would you recommend?

I'm limited to carrying Glocks or Sigs (only a couple of models) and that's what we're issued. I own four of them and can't recall a single failure because of the gun. I had an issue with the slightly oversized slide release where my left hand would cause it to engage sometimes, but once it was replaced with the standard release, no problems at all...as in zero malfunctions for two model 22s a 23 and a 27 and maybe a combined 10,000 rounds.

With that said, I'm a 1911 guy and had a few issues with my Gold Cup when I first got it, but a little polishing on the feed ramp area fixed it for good. My race 1911 went something like 50K rounds before a failure and that was ammo related (old case with a torn up rim). I'm a bit overboard with my ammo QC and that's probably why it always ran perfectly. My STI, which is still pretty new, had one failure to feed in the first two hundred rounds and has been 100% in about 2300 rounds since then.

A quality 1911 from Springfield, Kimber, Les Baer, Wilson etc should run 100% with decent ammo and mags. There's no telling what range guns have been subjected to.

Of the more modern style autos, I really like the feel of the new S&W M&P but haven't been able to shoot one yet.

[waxman]

I have a taurus 454 casull, a smith 357, a xd 9mm, a kimber45, a browning 22, a ruger 22, a glock 40, and a north american arms 22, and over 20 other long guns, including a few very high dollar ar type rifles, and various other assault rifles. Having said that there is only 1 that I would trust with my life. This pistol is kept in a quick access safe beside my bed. more on that in a minute. I had the oportunity to attend 2 combat pistol schools while in the marines. During these 2, 2 week courses there was only one handgun used. A total of 25 students attended each class and all fired a minimum of 1500 rounds. Do the math. Well my point here is not once in any of these classes, or in the 5 years I carried this particular pistol did I ever see a stoppage. What is this amazing firearm you ask? It is the beretta m9, also know as the model 92. I honestly believe this to be the most reliable pistol in the world. I know you asked for a 45, but a 9mm that always works, is way better then a 45, that most of the time does. My advise, get a beretta 92, load it with +p+ winchester rangers, and of course practice with it.

[dsb45acp]

Hey Sam, and welcome to the BE forums. Before you drop big money on a custom or semi-custom 1911, I reccomend getting with someone you know who shoots frequently and well and ask them to evaluate your techinque (grip, stance, etc.). If you were having malfunction problems with both Glocks, and 1911's, it may be something in your technique causing a higher then average number of malfunctions. That said, my reccomendation for a carry 1911 is my own pistol! Kimber Classic Stainless with CMC 8 round mags. I had a trigger and reliability job done by Wilson Combat as well as tritium night sights. I ran 1000 rounds of UMC 230 gr. ball through this in one day with Frank Garcia at USA; didn't have one malfunction. I figure this is reliable enough for self defense carry. My 0.2 cents for what its worth.

[George]

I own several Glocks, a couple gubmint models and a single SIG P-226. The only one of these that hasn't occasionally burped, even with QC'd ammo has been the SIG. It will feed empty cases from the mag.

My Glocks are pretty darned reliable, but my SIG is dead azz reliable. My other guns go to the range, but my SIG goes anywhere it needs to go!

[revchuck]

Sam - A lot of good advice above. Competition shooters put a LOT of rounds through their guns, but even their "production" guns are rarely stock.

Current 1911s are reliable - they should be, after 96 years of trying to get it right. Pick a quality brand, only use good magazines (cheap mags cause about 90% of problems in autoloaders, if not more), use quality ammo, and you shouldn't have any problems.

Having said that, IMO the 9x19s that have come out in the last 30 years or so - Beretta 92s, SIG-Sauers, H&Ks, S&Ws, Glocks, etc. - tend to be more reliable out of the box than 1911s.

The autos I own that I feel comfortable carrying are a Beretta 92, CZ-75B, Colt Gov't Model (.45 ACP version), and a Steyr M40. Each of them is in the caliber it was originally designed around. I use factory magazines for all except the Colt, for which I use Metalform or Chip McCormick mags. I run good ammo in them. I trust them, but then I take care of them and know them.

Buying a new gun is like buying a new appliance - usually they work fine, but some need a little tweaking. If you buy a new gun, the factory is the one who should tweak it if it doesn't work. If, for instance, it has a heavier trigger than you like, but it runs all the time, then you send it to a gunsmith.

Welcome to the Forum!

[IPSCDRL]

(Snip) What is this amazing firearm you ask? It is the beretta m9, also know as the model 92. I honestly believe this to be the most reliable pistol in the world. I know you asked for a 45, but a 9mm that always works, is way better then a 45, that most of the time does. My advise, get a beretta 92, load it with +p+ winchester rangers, and of course practice with it.

Thanks for reminding me, I need to call Taurus and see if they have a replacement for the broken locking block from my model 92 I sent them over a month ago.

I realize you specified the Beretta, but I understand that they are prone to the same breakage of the locking block.

If this is to be a house gun, I whole-heartedly agree with the suggestion of a .357 revolver in 3-4" barrel. Nothing to go wrong with it.

Smith & Wesson, the original point and click interface.

[oddjob]

Hi Sam.........& Welcome

I live in California as well and we are restricted by law what we can buy here. My advice is to get a 4" .38 special revolver (S&W M-10 is fine) or better yet one of the police trade in used Sig 226's 9mm floating about. They may look beat up, but really don't have that many rounds through them. Its also a good gun to play in Production class with us!!! Use the Sig for home & play.

[Viggen]

Just pick your preference - what you personally like, buy it and shoot it.

Some folks like Glocks, like I do. Some like 1911's, like I do. Some swear by Sigs, and I have seen them needing to be pounded apart after jamming so tight they couldn't be cleared without a mallet.

Some like Barettas or CZ's or whatever. There is no magic, only individual reliable mechanical devices. Pick one and run it. If it doesn't run for you, even with the help of a gunsmith, sell it and get something else. You want something "custom" or special for cheap - it ain't gonna happen.

Production stuff will run within a few hundred of $500. Specialty stuff will run upwards of $3000. Some of the $500 stuff will run just as reliable as the high priced spread. They are just tools. Buy one(of whatever) and find out if that one runs for you.

And there is a lot of merit in a revolver. But be warned, they are the easiest to learn to use. They are also the most difficult sidearm to master. If you get good with a revolver, you truly are good.

[Flexmoney]

1. It's technique. My dad is bigger than I am and can dot an "i" like nobody's business, but can jam / malf ANY auto loader I put in his hands.

+1

It really does sound like a technique (grip and stance) issue since you cna't get a variety of auto guns to run for you.

[AustinMike]

I wasn't a fan of Glocks until I started shooting competitively and have made lots of improvements to my technique. Now, they shoot just fine for me and that's what I'm shooting the majority of the time. I sometimes carry a Glock 23 and it eats Speer Gold Dot hollowpoints just fine. For what it's worth, I'm usually carrying a little S&W scandium J-frame. The little sucker is light and easy to hide. While jamming may not be much of an issue with a revo, it does take practice to shoot accurately with them.

Find a gun that fits your hands well. Seek out a qualified instructor who can guide you toward the right selection and help with any technique issues.

[BBoyd]

S&W Airweight in .38

its light, fits in your jean pocket, and will go bang when you need it to.

[FrancisB]

S&W Airweight in .38

its light, fits in your jean pocket, and will go bang when you need it to.

I don't want to thread-jack this, but you bring up something I was thinking about recently. I normally carry a 1911 in a IWB for daily carry. About a year ago I picked up an airweight for the days when I didn't want to carry my TRS.

However, it creeps me out to have the gun in my front pocket (in a kramer pocket holster), because when I sit down (e.g. at a restaurant), the muzzle is pointing at whoever is sitting across from me, such as my wife or son. I know it's in a holster tha protects the trigger, but I don't feel comfortable carrying it that way. And if I'm going to get a belt holster for it, I might as well carry my 1911.

Anyone else feel this way, or am I being dumb?