First-time Shooter Incident

[davidball]

I will typically put a first-time shooter in my squad so I can keep an eye on him and tutor him through the match. So I have such a shooter in my squad last Sunday. We are on our first stage, I have read the stage briefing and everyone is looking over the stage. Our new shooter asks, "Where is the safe table," which is a good question. But then I notice he already has his gun in his holster.

"Where were you when you put your gun on?" I ask.

"In the clubhouse."

First, I am a little disappointed that no one in the clubhouse either noticed this or, they noticed, but didn't correct the action. I, and most of the veteran shooters in our club, were out doing what we are supposed to do before the match - finishing setup (the first-time shooter also came early to help with setup). We do have a LOT of relatively new shooters, so it is possible that someone noticed but wasn't sure what to do.

But what should my response be? I did not witness the event. Immediate DQ based on the "confession" before the match has even begun?

Because of this incident and the number of rookie shooters our club is attracting we are in the process of re-evaluating our fairly informal method of orienting first-time and newer shooters. For a long time our club was made up almost exclusively of veteran shooters. So this is a new challlenge for us. Clearly we need to tighten things up a bit. But, like most problems clubs have, it will probably mean allocating more human resources (which are already in short supply) to yet another task, albeit an important one.

[ChuckS]

I guess that I would first have to ask how a shooter new to your club would know where gun handling is OK?

Later,

Chuck

[davidball]

I guess that I would first have to ask how a shooter new to your club would know where gun handling is OK?

Typically, "someone" would tell him. I, or another of the experienced shooters, would take him under our wing. Some how, this poor guy slipped through the cracks. I guess that exemplifies the problem. In the past, the ratio of veteran to rookie shooters was so great that "someone" ALWAYS grabbed the newbie and took him through the paces. But this time, suddenly, at our first match of the year, BAM, I'm looking around after spending two hours setting up and over half of our competitors are not the old guard. Sure, lots of faces I've seen at our matches before, but most of them relatively new and still learning the sport themselves. I guess the bottom line is that the paradigm of our club changed and I was behind the curve in adjusting.

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I am a Drivers Ed instructor for high speed drivers events. What I try to do is have the new students pair up with another instructor who drives a similar car. It is kind of a mentor program. You could do the same and have someone greet the new shooters in the parking lot and tell them where they need to meet for a beginer class. Hope this helps. Thanks Eric

[Chris Keen]

It's true .... new shooters are blind to the rules, so ignorance abounds. Not really their fault.

I once saw a new shooter pull his gun out of his range bag and holster it at his car, so I said "Hey, you can't do that here."

So he immediately un-holstered it, and quickly put it back in his range bag. [sigh]

Edited March 24, 2007 by CHRIS KEEN

[dajarrel]

We have recently seen an influx of new shooters as well with all the associated problems. Invariably, we will look up and see a new shooter with his gun holstered and get the same reply that David got. Sometimes they even have a magazine in their gun. Fortunately, I have never seen one loaded. I usually try to gather the new guy in right off the bat to keep with me or try to assign him to one of the guys who shoot regularly. If the newbie isn't hard to get along with (some are ) there are a couple of guys who really enjoy working with them.

Gee, New folks wanting to shoot our sport.

That's a terrible problem to have isn't it

Bring 'em on

dj

[Jaxshooter]

If it's a new shooter he probably just didn't know any better. If he got there early for setup somebody should have told him the basics regarding safety while you were setting up. I would not DQ him for that. I would explain the cold range etc and you can only handle gun in safe area and point them out. Be sure to include no ammo in safe area also.

You may want to post the information where it will be seen by everyone coming to the range.

Edited March 24, 2007 by Jaxshooter

[GentlemanJim]

Maybe post bacic rules on a sign

Its hard to play by the rules ..if you dont know them.

First time shooters require special instruction...and with LOTS of new people, it would be real hard to give them all, personal attention from the time they show up.

Its nice to have your club grow!!

Good luck

Jim

[BritinUSA]

May I suggest that you document the rules of your club and have them available at the sign-up location so that new shooters can pick them up. Also having it available softcopy so that if someone emails you about attending the match you can attach the rules to the email response. This way they'll know the rules before they turn up.

I'm not talking about the USPSA rules but rather those club rules that vary from one club to another. We all know what they are as we face them every week, and as a result we ASSUME that everyone knows them.

I did a similar document about how the matches are run, scoring, patching, brassing etc... it's here on the BE forums somewhere, that kind of thing is so useful for new shooters and will help them to enjoy their first match.

[davidball]

It's true .... new shooters are blind to the rules, so ignorance abounds. Not really their fault.

I agree. As match director I must assume primary responsibility. Its a matter of getting a good procedure to pre-empt these kind of problems.

I usually try to gather the new guy in right off the bat to keep with me or try to assign him to one of the guys who shoot regularly.

I think doing this is a good piece to the puzzle. "Right off the bat".

Gee, New folks wanting to shoot our sport.

That's a terrible problem to have isn't it

Bring 'em on

You may want to post the information where it will be seen by everyone coming to the range.

Maybe post bacic rules on a sign

Its hard to play by the rules ..if you dont know them.

Yeah, we have concluded some charts / posters are also a part of the solution.

May I suggest that you document the rules of your club and have them available at the sign-up location so that new shooters can pick them up. Also having it available softcopy so that if someone emails you about attending the match you can attach the rules to the email response. This way they'll know the rules before they turn up.

Also a good idea.

Edited March 24, 2007 by davidball

[BigDave]

Is it possible that the gun was in the holster when it was in the bag? Then he just threaded the gun & holster?

[ima45dv8]

About 2 years ago we had a new shooter ride with us to a match. With a Suburban FULL of experienced shooters, we somehow didn't take the opportunity to explain how things work at the matches.

New shooter gets called to the line on the first stage, takes his jacket off, and has a small semi-auto in a holster behind his back. From about 20' away, I swooped in and draped my arm across his shoulder (so my jacket would cover the offending appendage) and asked him to come with me to the parking lot. Once we got there (and before I turned lose of him) I explained what I was about to do, then took his carry piece and cleared it, and stuck it in my truck for safe keeping. After a quick explanation, he apologized. I apologized to him even more.

Short answer -- no DQ. Ignorance sounds like a justifiable defense in this case.

[Shawn Knight]

Is it possible that the gun was in the holster when it was in the bag? Then he just threaded the gun & holster?

I have done that and got called on it pretty much as soon as the holster/gun combo came out. Our club is small and you guys showed up there, some of you may have a coronary! I have been handed loaded guns in the break-room/clubhouse area, I have seen more muzzles pointed at me(and shouted about it) than I see on TV! There are signs everywhere and I have told several people(including the ROs) that they should handle guns at the safety area. I am trying my darnedest not to develop bad habits.

[AikiDale]

New shooters have no idea about our rules. And we should not expect them to have any idea how to behave on our ranges.

People were horrified, but friendly and helpful, when I first graced a USPSA match with my presence. I was under the silly impression the P in USPSA actually stood for practical. All my shooting before had been under the watchfull eye of Gun Sight type folks who taught 'All guns are always loaded," and they meant it. Before ever hearing of USPSA I shot a monthly match on a Hot Range. We're talking 40 to 60 shooters with loaded guns all the time and being quite safe.

If we want to encourage new shooters we need to make sure they feel welcome and that there is someone to take them through our very strange and impractical gun handling practices before we turn them loose.

[Trooper]

I have a great amount of interest in this problem..... as I only started IPSC 6 months ago and was guilty of EXACTLY the same thing as that other "new guy"..

How was I to know any different? Everyone just "assumed" certain knowledge...

NOT fun.

Signage is a REAL good idea.... having another shooter take ANY newcomer (or visitor?) aside immediately for a quick "this is how we do it here" chat is even better.

I have already done that myself.... didn't want anyone else to go through that experience!

It IS a problem that needs thoughtful attention......

[Flexmoney]

I guess the bottom line is that the paradigm of our club changed and I was behind the curve in adjusting.

It sneaks up on ya...real quick. (me too)

But, like most problems clubs have, it will probably mean allocating more human resources (which are already in short supply) to yet another task, albeit an important one.

[my perspective]

The new shooters need to be the supply line for fresh human resources. After we have been in this thing for a handful of years, we tend to lean on the "new guys" from a few years ago. Well heck, they've been around for a few years now...they aren't really the new guys any more.

Us old guys...need to make sure our old new guys...are training the next wave of really new guys (guys being generic for guys and gals ).

We usually spin somebody off to give a "new shooter briefing". We have guys that are experienced and perfect for this role...and may be better suited to it than they are at humping steel and walls.

[ChuckS]

Us old guys...need to make sure our old new guys...are training the next wave of really new guys (guys being generic for guys and gals ).

shouldn't that be "new old guys"?

[Nik Habicht]

We try to ask our new shooters about carry guns first --- and use that as the way to a short conversation about gunhandling on the range.....

Works most of the time....

[chuckbradley]

Chances are the first guy was seen holstering his gun and somebody told him he can only handle his firearm at a safety area. You dont DQ a newbee for this offense, in fact its hard to DQ a newbee period unless the club has given a proper orientation. If we just throw them out there what do we expect. When I ran a club I always gathered the new shooters and either sent them off for an orientation or gave them one myself before we went to shoot the match.

Their first match was with a qualified RO who was holding their hand through the match. I only ever turned one shooter away, It was a young girl whose dad brought her to shoot. I felt bad but she obviously didnt even know how a gun worked and didnt have the hand strength to hold the gun with one hand much less shoot it. I told the Father who wasnt even a shooter himself to take her shooting and teach her some basics about shooting first then we would be glad to have her back.

Bottom line we cant expect newbees to know what we expect unless we teach them first.

[KentG]

Interesting subject.

The ironic part is I have seen numerous shooters I know to be regular participants and safe shooters do the parkinglot shuffle. I have been to major matches and seen the same actions by higher ranked shooters that would get new shooters read the riot act.

I do notice I seem to see lots of shooters geared up at the shooters meeting and dont recall seeing them at the safe area.

I really do my best to holster and unholster downrange or at safe areas before and at the end of matches.

NOW having said that I will also admit to having done the car holster drill. That is my bag is in the car still but reach in with the gun in the bag, cycle the slide at least twice for safe and hammer down then slip in my holster. I know its safe,, I have stood next to safe shooters and seen them do the same. Doesnt make it right. I cant say I have done this in the last couple years though. I HAVE taken my rig back to the truck and taken off my holster with the pistol still in it from the last stage and put it directly in the range bag till I get home.

I remember a major match a couple years ago walking thru the parking area it sounded like a Miami Vice episode with all of sounds of actions being racked.

That included some national names I do believe.

[JFD]

Basic safety rules and club rules on a club website and on signage as they enter the property is the only thing I can think of until the new shooter makes contact with someone at the match.

This could be why some clubs mandate a safety orientation prior to shooting a match.

I've held a couple of sessions in our restricted access practice bays that are basically "an introduction to USPSA". I'll cover our safety rules, answer a ton of questions about guns and divisions, then let them shoot a stage I've set up. That gives them the chance to hear a timer for maybe the first time, hear the range commands, then finally see what pasting is all about, and maybe a chance to score as well.

Since we no longer have USPSA at our club, this has kind of died off

[FranDoc]

My intro to handgun shooting was paper targets on a cord between trees back out yonder & tin cans on fence posts, not a whole lot of formal safety stuff beyond the obvious.

When I got to the IDPA club, I had no idea what 'cold range' meant. Signs don't help the newbie if s/he doesn't know what the phrase means. I showed up to the first practice night with the 1911 latched into the (borrowed) thigh holster, magazine in place, nothing chambered. That's the way it had been done before, no big deal.

I will forever thank the RO for not having a meltdown.

He gave me a quiet, brief, private overview of 'cold range', 'safe area' (and exactly what's done there), 'show clear, slide forward, hammer down'. Probably took 2 minutes. I'd walked into foreign turf and didn't speak the language. I wasn't trying to be a hot shot, I just didn't know the local customs.

Fortunately the RO understood that instantly and his quick explanation of specifics was sufficient and greatly appreciated.

New folks WANT to do this right, generally appreciate the guidance and are motivated to learn quickly.

[fryeg7]

is it considered handling your firearm if you put on a paddle holster with the pistol already in it, never touching/handling the gun? i tend to do this and have never had anyone question it.

frye

[38superman]

When I came to my first IPSC match it was at GPSL in Georgia.

As I signed in as a new shooter I was given a brief orientation by one of the club officers.

It didn't take long and covered the safety rules such as cold range, safe areas, ammo handling, 180 violations, trigger finger, etc.

Once that was understood, I was placed on a squad with veteran shooters and RO's that guided me through my first stage.

If the gentleman in question asked where the safe area was he must have know what it was for, unless someone mentioned it to him after he had already unbagged his gun illegally.

How harshly you react to something like that has to be weighed fairly against when, if, and how the rules were communicated to the shooter.

DQ seems too harsh under the circumstances.

Tls

Edited March 25, 2007 by tlshores

[davidball]

I appreciate all of the stories, comments and advice. It seems we can summarize some common threads as follows:

1. Boy, this type of thing happens way to much.

2. Can't really blame the newbie offender for stuff he doesn't know.

3. We need to make sure the newbie knows stuff he should know.

4. We need to get more people involved so that the newbie knows stuff he should know.

5. And yes, Flex, this (and many other things) "sneak up on ya real quick".