Sean Gaines Posted December 3, 2006 Share Posted December 3, 2006 I was looking at the rule book, and on page 21 its states that winning an area match will promote you to GM status. Is this true? I was under the impression that there had to be a certain amount of GM's to make that rule apply, but can't find out were its states that. My friend Chad Folger just won HOA at area 4 in limited class, and is currently a Master Class shooter. At the match there was 1 GM in attendance shooting limited. I know at other major matches if there is 3 GM's than your percentage of thier score becomes like a classifier towards your current percenage. I just wanted to get everyone's take on this. Thanks PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GeneralChang Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Good question. Would that make Dave Sevigny a GM? There were only 2 Open GM's at the match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan W Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Good question. Would that make Dave Sevigny a GM? There were only 2 Open GM's at the match. Not sure about the ruling here for this Area match, but I do know that Dave Sevigny is most certainly a GM Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Classification for DAVID S - TY42164 OPEN Class: M Current Pct: 93.730 High Percent: 93.730 LIMITED Class: GM Current Pct: 98.942 High Percent: 98.942 LIMITED10 Class: U Current Pct: 0.000 High Percent: 0.000 PRODUCTION Class: GM Current Pct: 100.000 High Percent: 100.000 REVOLVER Class: U Current Pct: 0.000 High Percent: 0.000 SINGLESTACK Class: GM Current Pct: 0.000 High Percent: 0.000 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Micah Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Classification for DAVID S - TY42164PRODUCTION Class: GM Current Pct: 100.000 High Percent: 100.000 Now THAT'S something to work towards! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bryan W Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Classification for DAVID S - TY42164OPEN Class: M Current Pct: 93.730 High Percent: 93.730 LIMITED Class: GM Current Pct: 98.942 High Percent: 98.942 LIMITED10 Class: U Current Pct: 0.000 High Percent: 0.000 PRODUCTION Class: GM Current Pct: 100.000 High Percent: 100.000 REVOLVER Class: U Current Pct: 0.000 High Percent: 0.000 SINGLESTACK Class: GM Current Pct: 0.000 High Percent: 0.000 Yeah, I knew he had a M classification in Open, but my point was that he's already a proven top level shooter - GM card or not Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Matt Cheely Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Yeah, I knew he had a M classification in Open, but my point was that he's already a proven top level shooter - GM card or not Ok, just checking Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 Good thing Johnny Brister already had his GM card.. he was the only revo shooter. I think they have to take into account who shoots the match before handing out GM cards left and right.. We gave Dave a sufficient ration of carp for sandbagging us 'real' M-shooters at A4 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mick Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I was looking at the rule book, and on page 21 its states that winning an area match will promote you to GM status. Is this true? I was under the impression that there had to be a certain amount of GM's to make that rule apply, but can't find out were its states that. My friend Chad Folger just won HOA at area 4 in limited class, and is currently a Master Class shooter. At the match there was 1 GM in attendance shooting limited. I know at other major matches if there is 3 GM's than your percentage of thier score becomes like a classifier towards your current percenage. I just wanted to get everyone's take on this. Thanks PK I don't think Area 4 will qualify for bumping Chad up although he certainly deserves it. I don't remember what number of "real GMs" have to be there but it is more than was there this weekend. I say "real GMs" because I don't count anymore as do alot of other "older shooters"....I got my M card in '97 winning A class where Brian Enos, Frank Garcia, and several "real GMs" were in attendance and I shot 90%... Mick A27257 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted December 4, 2006 Author Share Posted December 4, 2006 Good thing Johnny Brister already had his GM card.. he was the only revo shooter. I think they have to take into account who shoots the match before handing out GM cards left and right.. We gave Dave a sufficient ration of carp for sandbagging us 'real' M-shooters at A4 After thinking about it, I guess there would be alot more revolver GM's if winning area matches was all it took to get your GM Card. I am sure That Jerry did not attend every single area match when he was the only GM revolver shooter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AZ38super Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 I don't have my rulebook handy but I believe you get bumped on a win with a percentage from the class above in all cases except to GM. You have to earn that one by classifiers if I am remembering right. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sean Gaines Posted December 4, 2006 Author Share Posted December 4, 2006 I don't have my rulebook handy but I believe you get bumped on a win with a percentage from the class above in all cases except to GM.You have to earn that one by classifiers if I am remembering right. I have the green book hand and this is what it states on page 21,3rd paragraph down, towards the end of the paragraph. "Winning first or second in class at an Area Championship or Major Tournament AND shooting into the next higher class will result in promotion (except to Grand Master); winning High Overall in an Area Championship will promote you to Grand Master class" So with that being stated Chad should move up to GM, but like my previous post stated earlier, I doubt they even really do this. And maybe they should be doing a more active job in this especially to keep sandbaggers from sandbagging, and moving them up into the appropriate class. Dont get me wrong, Chad is definately not sandbagging at all, because I know him. But there are other people out there that I can't say that about. PK Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Carmoney Posted December 4, 2006 Share Posted December 4, 2006 "Winning first or second in class at an Area Championship or Major Tournament AND shooting into the next higher class will result in promotion (except to Grand Master); winning High Overall in an Area Championship will promote you to Grand Master class" Just an FYI, since it was raised above: They generally haven't applied this rule in Revolver Division. Nobody has reached GM in Revo by any sort of "automatic bump." Everybody in GM class in Revo Division is there on classifiers, except for Jerry Miculek, who's there on match performances. (In reality, nobody has ever shot 95% or greater than Jerry at a major USPSA match. As far as I know, the two closest are Nils Jonasson at 92% and me at 88%.) I'm not aware of any Revo shooter ever automatically moving up in class because of an area championship win. The shooters' overall match percentages at Nationals (and occasionally area matches, apparently depending on how many Revos are there and whether Jerry's shooting it) are listed as single classifers that get factored in with the shooters' other classifiers. This year after Nationals, my son Sam got a card from USPSA congratulating him on being bumped into B class because he had won C and shot a B-class percentage. By coincidence, his classifier percentage increased the same month, and he would have moved up to B on classifiers anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlamoShooter Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 So with the area 4 shoot I have a good chance that they will move me up to M and I wont have to keep paying for reshoots on classifyers to get my average UP. Jamie Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mactiger Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I addressed this issue with Dave Thomas a couple of years ago. He stated then that the rule book should say "may" instead of will, and that it was a misprint that was not caught. He also stated that the current USPSA policy was to change people's classes based on performance at a major match comparative to past performance. In other words, you may get lucky and win HOA or your class at Area X, but if you hadn't been shooting up to those standards prior to that match, the one win won't result in an automatic bump to the next class or higher. I believe that this is still the method used by Dave to determine class changes based on match performance instead of classifier scores, but I could be wrong. You can, and should, contact him for any questions about this sort of thing. Hope this helps. Troy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted December 5, 2006 Share Posted December 5, 2006 I wont have to keep paying for reshoots on classifyers to get my average UP. Grandbagger.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadepanther Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I don't have my rulebook handy but I believe you get bumped on a win with a percentage from the class above in all cases except to GM. You have to earn that one by classifiers if I am remembering right. I have the green book hand and this is what it states on page 21,3rd paragraph down, towards the end of the paragraph. "Winning first or second in class at an Area Championship or Major Tournament AND shooting into the next higher class will result in promotion (except to Grand Master); winning High Overall in an Area Championship will promote you to Grand Master class" I have a question about High Overall? Does High Overall mean High Overall for the entire match and all Divsions, or for the Division you shoot in? Seems to me it should be High Overall for your Division, forcing production shooters to have to beat all Open shooters in a Major sounds a bit harsh. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 It's by division...as all "official" scores are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS_A18138 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 WOW that would make me a GM after Area 4 since I was HOA Single Stack. I don't think SO!!!!! hheheheheheheh!!!! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
hopalong Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 Mark, That sounds good, If USPSA doesn't promote you just go ahead and put it down on all your entry forms this upcoming shooting season! As far as winning HOA and getting promoted.........I have managed to win a few area matches in Revolver division (with competition too) and have stayed in the same class (shooting wise) one of these days I'll get a little class......... Hopalong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MarkS_A18138 Posted December 30, 2006 Share Posted December 30, 2006 I just want to put C-class down and be happy! I remember those days! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jadepanther Posted December 31, 2006 Share Posted December 31, 2006 It's by division...as all "official" scores are. Thank you Flexmoney Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Interceptor Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 (edited) Sorry to bring up an Old thread, however, I just won Production division at Double Tap Championship. There were two GM's in attendance (on shot 99% of me and one 92%) and I am currently classified as an M in Production and GM in Limited. My question is whether or not this match will be used as a Classifier for me (100%). I have heard that there has to be three GM's in your division for that to happen, however I have not found a rule or policy anywhere that specifically lays out what the standards are for inclusion of matches as classifiers. Thanks in advance for any info. Edited March 28, 2007 by Interceptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
lynn jones Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 Sorry to bring up an Old thread, however, I just won Production division at Double Tap Championship. There were two GM's in attendance (on shot 99% of me and one 92%) and I am currently classified as an M in Production and GM in Limited. My question is whether or not this match will be used as a Classifier for me (100%). I have heard that there has to be three GM's in your division for that to happen, however I have not found a rule or policy anywhere that specifically lays out what the standards are for inclusion of matches as classifiers. Thanks in advance for any info. there has to be 3 GMs per divison to count as a classifier per division. yes, you will receive a 100%. good job! lynn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
racerba Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 When I got bumped to A, I inquired and got this in response: Dear Bob: The rule of thumb for move-ups due to placement at a tournament or sanctioned match is that you have to take first or second in your class and shoot a score that is in the higher class - in your case, first B with a 77.56 percent in Production. You also have to be shooting against three or more GMs in your division; Dave Sevigny, David Olhasso and Todd Sindelaar placed one-two-three in Production at that match. Therefore, it was felt that you were capable of holding an A ranking in Production. I hope this information is helpful. If you have any other questions, please let me know. Sincerely, Val Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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