ima45dv8 Posted March 28, 2007 Share Posted March 28, 2007 When I got bumped to A, I inquired and got this in response:Dear Bob: The rule of thumb for move-ups due to placement at a tournament or sanctioned match is that you have to take first or second in your class and shoot a score that is in the higher class - in your case, first B with a 77.56 percent in Production. You also have to be shooting against three or more GMs in your division; Dave Sevigny, David Olhasso and Todd Sindelaar placed one-two-three in Production at that match. Therefore, it was felt that you were capable of holding an A ranking in Production. I hope this information is helpful. If you have any other questions, please let me know. Sincerely, Val I think that's just cool as it gets! I'd relish being moved up under those conditions. Good job, Bob. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 Just bringing this up to add another question. Lets say that a shooter wins an area match in say.....L-10 and beats some masters, but no GM's. Then let's say this shooter is a B-class L-10 shooter, what do they do then? Does anyone have any idea? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 B Limited 10 Major No No 1164.4979 100.00% M Limited 10 Major No No 1152.9962 99.01% A Limited 10 Major No No 1074.7721 92.29% M Limited 10 Major No No 1069.3868 91.83% B Limited 10 Major No No 1059.4040 90.98% Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 What are you trying to say Flex? That is the match and the shooter is a good friend of mine. Just to let people know the answer instead of just guessing, we picked up the phone and called(cool idea I forget about sometimes), promotion to A class. It's funny because when the classifiers catch up to him that is what he would have been anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 7, 2007 Share Posted May 7, 2007 What are you trying to say Flex? That is the match and the shooter is a good friend of mine. Just to let people know the answer instead of just guessing, we picked up the phone and called(cool idea I forget about sometimes), promotion to A class. It's funny because when the classifiers catch up to him that is what he would have been anyway. Good for him! I think it would be cool as **** to get moved up for a great "battle proven" performance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jaxshooter Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 The shooter in question is also a friend of mine. I can assure you that he is above reproach when it comes to following the rules and is certainly not a sandbagger. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I wasn't trying to say anything. I just put up some added data. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 Cool, it just kind of confused me. That happens pretty easy these days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I wasn't trying to say anything. I just put up some added data. I didn't see anything inflammatory in your post, either. I hope he moves up and is proud of how it happened. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Fireant Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 I wasn't trying to say anything. I just put up some added data. I didn't see anything inflammatory in your post, either. I hope he moves up and is proud of how it happened. He sure will/is, but just posting scores after some of the sand/hiding threads made me wonder. Actually that shooter uses a double action S&W with a production holster and mag pouch placement. He is mighty proud of that. We just call him the Champ now He's a bad..... well I guess you had to be there Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ima45dv8 Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 ....well I guess you had to be there I was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nemo Posted May 8, 2007 Share Posted May 8, 2007 ....well I guess you had to be there I was! Me 2! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
dirtypool40 Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 (edited) The shooter in question is also a friend of mine. I can assure you that he is above reproach when it comes to following the rules and is certainly not a sandbagger. Sandbagging implies hiding "in the weeds". Contrary to the unkind things people were thinking (and saying) in the other thread, I don't think Kenny's a sand bagger. I think he's a great shooter. HE shot a clean match at an area. I've never done that. Have YOU? I'm GLAD this guy is in L10, I don't want him kicking my ass in Limited with that friggin' B card. Jeezus!!! An area win as a "B"? I'd love to have that on my resume'. Hell I'd love to have one at any classification. Edited May 9, 2007 by dirtypool40 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 There's a difference between a sandbagger, and a shooter who's making improvements by leaps and bounds... The classification system takes some time to catch up w/ the latter... the former hides from the classification system in some sad, pathetic attempt to feel like a winner for beating up on lesser skilled shooters (kind of like the school yard bully). The shooter who hides from competition in a division that's shallow on shooters in his skill level is another type of character - similar to a sandbagger in that his idea of "winning" is warped to only be representative of "conquering" lower skilled shooters, but he's not generally hiding from the classification system... I think many of the folks on this forum would agree that the only true way to win is to strive for the best personal performance, all the time, and to always seek to do so against the best talent you can find. It doesn't mean having "#1" next to your name, or walking away with some kewl prize (though, frequently, true winners do those things). It means heart, and courage, and guts, and character... success under pressure, taking on a great challenge and doing the absolute best you can to succeed. That's what winning's all about... not the pathetic material things that sandbaggers and "hiders" are after.... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nik Habicht Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I think many of the folks on this forum would agree that the only true way to win is to strive for the best personal performance, all the time, and to always seek to do so against the best talent you can find. So --- playing devil's advocate here --- if someone decided to play in Production, because he/she liked it, in an area where all the Masters and Grand Masters were competing in Open, then that person wouldn't be truly winning? They'd be hiding from the competition? How about we all worry a little less about what everybody else is doing, what their motivations are, and we just get back to shooting....... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
jhgtyre Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 How about we all worry a little less about what everybody else is doing, what their motivations are, and we just get back to shooting....... Amen brother Nik! -ld Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Steve Moneypenny Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 I think many of the folks on this forum would agree that the only true way to win is to strive for the best personal performance, all the time, and to always seek to do so against the best talent you can find. So --- playing devil's advocate here --- if someone decided to play in Production, because he/she liked it, in an area where all the Masters and Grand Masters were competing in Open, then that person wouldn't be truly winning? They'd be hiding from the competition? How about we all worry a little less about what everybody else is doing, what their motivations are, and we just get back to shooting....... Haha. good post nick. it's true. I can't tell you how many times i was accused of hiding. Then produciton finally got a bunch of GM's in production. I honestly just love DA/SA guns and that's what i CCW with. As for moving up... the classification system is a work in progress some day i hope there is a good asbolute. but with guys like sevigny and letham that push mere mortals down 10-15% at an area match .... i don't see that whole precentage thing working out too well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
XRe Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 So --- playing devil's advocate here --- if someone decided to play in Production, because he/she liked it, in an area where all the Masters and Grand Masters were competing in Open, then that person wouldn't be truly winning? They'd be hiding from the competition? No no no... wouldn't that pretty much make every revo shooter a "hider", as well??? The hider is one who looks at the makeup of a match, and specifically shoots the division where the competition isn't. If you enjoy shooting Production, shoot Production. Shoot it to the best of your ability. Seek out matches that attract the best Production shooters in the area, so that you have honest competition. When you go to a big match, continue to shoot Production - don't look at the sign up list and decide to shoot L-10, instead, because "Joe Smith, who always beats me, is shooting Production". Shoot Production, and do your damndest to turn in your best performance - and maybe this time you'll beat Joe Smith. Nik, most folks aren't Ms or GMs - and Ms and GMs aren't at a level where the shooter can even consider them to be competition. By "best talent", I wasn't necessarily meaning that we're all hiders unless we're always shooting against Dave Sevigny, or Chris Tilley, or Max Michel, or.... (I can see how it would be interpreted that way, though). True winning is an internal thing - its about not shying away from a true test, and performing your best at all times. My point was that the guy who looks at the list of people signed up, and switches divisions into one where there's less perceived talent, and then "wins" (the match, or his class, or whatever), he didn't really win anything.... And the guy who does anything he can to keep his classification low, and then goes to big matches and "wins" his class didn't really win anything, either. I get the feeling you took my post a little bit personally??? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted May 9, 2007 Share Posted May 9, 2007 (heavy-handed moderation coming...) Since we are no longer talking about the original question. And...this is turning into a sandbagging discussion...I'm, killing it. If you want to beat the sandbagging horse...there are other threads for it (find them and bring them up...so I can close them too ). They usually come up after every major match. Closed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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