Jadepanther

lol good stuff, I call shenanigans!

Cliffs of Dover is on one of the Guitar Hero games, I think that game is helping with a bit of a resurgence of popularity of some of the guitar gods.

Yes that was awesome, its crazy how high he goes.

worst for me was buying something used off Ebay and it was trashed in shipping, and i needed it fast, guy wouldn't refund my money until the UPS insurance claim was done which took weeks

I emailed STI the other day about running 9mm major in this and hear is the reply. "The SteelMaster is tuned to function with 9mm minor (factory ammo). The components will work and function with major loads, however particular care would be needed with the recoil and extraction systems. This would have to be done outside the factory and would most likely negate the warranty. Jay"

um is that a joke like "KISS Keep it simple stupid" and your pullin our legs of is there literally a special plate your using for these. why wouldn't just shortenging your OAL a bit work? this question has been answered, My ignorace to this has been cleared up. Apparently there is a special plate for these if your using a bullet feeder on a Dillon 1050

Apparently the Steel Challenge website has just recently been Overhauled. Now you can go the www.steelchallenge.com and click on the rules link, and see all the rules. Major improvement to the steel challenge website right after USPSA buys it?

I see the steelchallenge website has been vastly overhauled and improved since this thread was started, I'm guessing soon after USPSA bought it. Excellent job, and thank you to all that worked on that. Clarificiation on this is now clearly listed under a rules link on the newly overhauld Steel Challenge website. www.steelchallenge.com I'm glad to to the major improvement to the website so soon. I do not think that the movement rule (leaving the box) should by any different than USPSA, its says for ease of scoring, how is steel challenge any harder to score when it comes to movement than USPSA? I'm a level 1 RO and run shooters at both local uspsa, and steel matches, I'm not seeing any reason for the that one specific difference on movement rules when the leaving the box between the two sports. http://steelchallenge.com/scsa-rules/ MOVEMENT USPSA rules will apply for shots fired while moving into the second shooting box in Outer Limits. If the contestant fires and leaves Box A and then realizes they missed and/or hit the targets out of sequence and returns to Box A and continues to shoot, there will be no procedural penalty (Keep the muzzle down range while returning to Box A). Any target(s) struck in the incorrect order [A vs. B] WILL be judged as a miss. If any shots are fired after having begun to move forward out of the box, there WILL be a procedural penalty. (For ease of judging, both feet must be touching down while firing in Box A in the Weak Side Box in the Outer Limits.) Upon reaching Box B, the contestant may begin to fire when one foot is in the box and the trailing foot is either in the box or in the air. Remember, if targets are engaged out of order without corrective shots being taken, there will be a procedural penalty, plus a miss scored on each target struck out of turn. The shooter may not leave the initial box until AFTER the first two targets are engaged. Upon entering the second box, the competitor may begin to engage the targets when the trailing foot is off the runway. It is the shooter’s choice as to whether they should have the trailing foot down or in the air before firing.

+1... Trying to shoot OL on the move is a sure way to end up with a 10 second run , so i say let em try it I did it all 5 runs at the last local steel match I shot. I was just putting my 2nd foot down about the time I hit the stop plate. missed #3 once, got it on the way back to the stop plate that was my throw away run. I shoot it 1,2,3,4,S as per BE's wisdom

Does there really have to be a "Big Wall" between uspsa and steel challenge? I love to shoot both. I would like to see the Steel challenge rules offically clarified and easily available. I would like to see the movement and saftey rules the same as USPSA, why would there be any reason for it to not be this way? I would like to compete in area, and state steel challenge matches with Divisions that welcome Steel, USPSA, IDPA, Cowboy shooters. like USPSA Production, or IDPA SSP and the finishers in that division win accordingly, there hard earned money they paid to compete in the match should not just pad the prize tabel for the top xx limeted/open shooters, AND/OR have the the match fee's lowered conciderably. I currently only shoot local steel matches for fun because the Kalifornia match is to $$$ for me your average B USPSA Production shooter to travel to California and shoot with a production rig (since thats all have) would only pad the prize table for the High over all sponsored open and limited shooters. It shouldn't have to be this way. The US Steel Nationals that just started last year looks encouraging. I'm glad to see USPSA buy SCSA and save the sport, and hopefully Improve it. I don't want to see alot of things changed in SCSA but I do think some think a few things need to be improved. Divsions that welcome all shooting disicplines and prizes are awarded per division not just high over all. Standard saftey and movement rules, no reason for them to be differnet in USPSA and Steel IMO. State and Area Matches with Divisions, and prize tables per Division not just a prize tabel for High Over All. State, and Area matches in Steel would be awesome with the 2 simple things I just listed, I'm sure the sport would explode with popularity. *Idea* Keep the Big annual California match the same and call it the "Steel Challenge Classic" This would make alot of people happy on both sides of the fence.

I don't think the movement rules on OL matter enough to worry about. It's not like you're going to hit 3 plates at 25-35 yards on the move anyway. Where they really mattered was on Flying M, which isn't shot in the "official" SC anymore. It would be nice to be consistent though. There is still Outer Limits, that has move from one box to another. Doing hundreds of drills shooting while leaving the box for USPSA then at steel challenge you get a procederal for it, kinda sucks. Although I can't find any current documentation for steel challenge currently that states this. The only current steel challenge rules available anywhere seems to be on the US Steel Nationals website and they do not specify there movemnet rules are any different than USPSA so, when one migh consider actually paying the several hundreds of dollars to compete in this match and wants to practice alot for it, you really need to know if your practicing it the right or wrong way before you get to the match. I'm considering taking the $$$ plung to compete in the US steel nationals this year since its on my side of the country, its still a big $$ cost to compete. I would be competing in USPSA production divsion. I guess I should direct my question directly with the people that is going to be running the match. Kalifornia it to far away and $$ for me.

It is held in Kalifonia, the PC crowd there is pretty tough Cowboy outfits are encouraged but not actually required for Single-Action competitors. In reality, all you get for an IDPA or Revolver entry is a letter next to your name on the overall order of finish results, and maybe a special prize from a sponsor if they want to recognize that division, there's no 'scores separated by division' concept. Prize table trips are strictly in order of overall finish. Like all such things, policing is pretty light-- if the RO notices something really wrong like irons listed and you've got a scope, they'll note it, but otherwise it's up to the competitors to police themselves and each other. That seems to work pretty well. Locally we recognize both IDPA and Production, even though they are very similar.. it just doesn't matter. wow so if someone finished 1st amongst "USPSA Production" division shooters at the steel challenge they would only be padding the top open/limited shooters prize table, since there the ones that always finish top 10 with very few exceptions, and win nothing but braggin rights. Thats very disapointing, actually that's beyond disapointing, it reprehensable, might as well just through all divisions away. I don't shoot to win money or prizes, but don't charge me a huge entry fee to pad the top (almost always already sponsered) open/limited shooters prizes when I have no chance of winning anything in USPSA production division.

The Score keeper is supposed to help with this call. The big time it hurts is a missed shot and you have to step back into the box to make the hit. Both feet down is just from the (First) box. To be competitive You have to be able to call the shot Before the bullet hits the plate. I have ran a sub 4 with a rim fire in practice - just to boost my confidence level. or not Now that USPSA has bought out SCSA hopefully they will at least clarify the movement rule, and all SCSA rules soon and clearly and easily make that information available. I can't find any rule book on the SCSA website, the link someone put for 2003 rules is a dead link. The US steel nationals website it says they use USPSA rules and does not specify any difference in the movement rule. so on paper currenty you can shoot plate #2 with one foot out of the box before it touches the ground as per USPSA rules, someone prove me wrong if I am. People need to know the rules of a sport before they sign up for a major national match.

I voted yes, but I don't think it shouldn't be inside the USPSA/IPSC Shooting subforum, that would only convolute people looking for USPSA specific information, at this point we don't know what if any of the SCSA rule will be changed(although you can't find the SCSA rule book by browsing the SCSA website, and new steel shooters don't know the rules and can't find them there)it should have its own subforum under "Shooting Sports Discussion Subforums" instead of a subforum, of a subforum like it currently is under (other shooting sports) like this Match Announcements - Pistol only USPSA/IPSC Shooting USPSA/IPSC Rules IDPA Shooting & Rules Steel Challenge Shooting & Rules (or something like that) .... ... ... Hopefully now that USPSA owns SCSA they will make information easily available like, what are the rules, and make that info easy to find on the website. I just hope they don't change anything except to make the movement rules in SCSA the exact same as USPSA, NO minimum powerfactors, bullet weights, classifications. Just simplifiy the divisions, into all USPSA divisions, and add rimfire.

interesting... thanks for the info

Almost ...as far as safty yes , but in USPSA one foot can be lifted off the ground during the shot - so long as it is not touch out side the box. In SC bouth feet must be touch down in the box for the first two shots/targets. A few years back one of the Ro's on Flying M asked me to move slower so that he could tell if my feet were still on the gound durring the first two shots I never did find out if he was just messing with me. I have been looking for clarification on this very thing, I found no rule book on the official Steel challenge website, until I found the 'secret' link only know by someon hear on the BE forum. The 'new' US National Steel Challenge website for the Floridia match they say USPSA rules on movement and do not stipulate both feet have to be in the box while shots fired before leaving. So whats the deal, are there 2 different Steel Challenge factions happening with slightly different rules or what? From what I have found the movement rule at these two major steel matches are in fact different, someone correct me if I'm wrong. I'm considering going to the US national steel match in florida this year. SCSA http://www.steelchallenge.com/ http://www.steelchallenge.com/ARCHIVE/2003/rules.htm MOVEMENT USPSA rules will apply for shots fired while moving into the second shooting box in WINCHESTER’S Outer Limits and the PRO-EARS by RIDGELINE Flying M 2000. If the contestant fires and leaves Box A and then realizes they missed and/or hit the targets out of sequence and returns to Box A and continues to shoot, there will be no procedural penalty (Keep the muzzle down range while returning to Box A). Any target(s) struck in the incorrect order (A vs. WILL be judged as a miss. If any shots are fired after having begun to move forward out of the box, there WILL be a procedural penalty US National Steel Championship http://www.ussteelshoot.com/ http://www.ussteelshoot.com/MatchRules.htm MATCH RULES Note: The SCSA uses safety rules as outlined by USPSA. For anything not specifically covered below refer to the current USPSA safety rules. So according to the website for the US National Steel Champtionship, that says SCSA follows USPSA rules unless stipluated below, and they do not stipulate any difference in movement, then shooting while leaving the box is IN as long as nothing touches the ground on the outside of the box before/while the shot is fired. If I overlooked something, someone please correct me So are there 2 different movement rules depending on if you go to the original official SCSA in California, or if you go to the 'new' US national Steel match in Florida?

Flex is correct, I thought the 773's and 771's were one size fits all, then ajdust as needed, but apparently I was wrong. Brian Enos store has the M&P listed under the Safariland 773's as (83) The ones I have that they won't fit in are for Sig 226 773(76). So I have been bumming out and trying to find a substitute for my favorite Mag pouch the Safariland 773's because I didn't go to Brain's store as a first choice. He is the only one that has the M&P listed that I have seen. If I would have just went to BE store first I would have saved my self hours of grief and surfing the web.

Must be the 771's I have the 773's and no front slot, and no way to make them work with M&P mag's Interestin,g I thought the 771's for for single stack mags

I have been looking for Mag pouch options for the Smith and Wesson M&P. Hear is what I have found. If I do an advanced search on be.com forum for M&P or M&P* I get Unfortunately your search didn't return any results. Try broadening the search parameters by searching by different keywords or altering the format of your search. Remember to use the wildcard '*' to increase the number of matches. Apple* will match 'apple' and 'apples'. Uncle Mikes kydex Paddle Double Mag pouches: (works, affordable, not the best for ipsc/uspsa competition, not legal for IDPA due to not belt loop design) Safariland 773: does NOT work no matter how you adjust it. If you take the screws and rollers out completley you can force them in, and there reaaaally hard to get them back out. Blad-tech: http://www.blade-tech.com/Single-Magazine-...VED-pr-833.html listed as being compatible with the M&P, but very expensive, listed at $39.95 a set of 5 of these would cost $199.75 before tax and shipping. CR Speed: Versa Pouch, listed at $39.95 each on the CRspeed website and not sure if they would fit, there website says All popular 9mm Box style Mags including Beretta, Browning HP, CZ 75/85 Springfield XD etc. anyone know for sure? i-SHOT: http://www.mp-store.com/product_info.php?c...437e79b56ae3a3a non adjustable, not sure about performance compared to blade-tech or cr speed $18.95 each comp-tac: http://www.comp-tac.com/catalog/product_in...5fca37e17a5f3af $25.00 and IDPA legal

Hi, I'm right handed, and right eye dominant, I shoot with both eyes open and see double targets when I focus on the front site. with your test: I see the dot, with an X over it, both lines are about equal, and inadvertantly one line gains dominance over the other with the other momentarily fading a bit. when I close my left eye, I see one line, whith the closest to my face seems to start at the left edge of my nose, the end of the line is directly in front of my right eye. when I close my right eye the line is noticably more crossed, with the closed part to my face seeming starting from directly in the center of my nose and ending in front of my left eye. I did this several times and where the lines start seems to vary from side of nose, to center to other side

anyone know about recoil, and hammer springs in IPSC?

I was comparing this very rule with IPSC, my interpretation of IPSC rules means no. I'f I'm wrong someone please correct me. This also sounds like you can't even use aftermarket recoil, or hammer springs? that seems harsh. I copied this from the IPSC website, under the production division info Aftermarket parts, components and accessories are prohibited, except as follows: Aftermarket magazines which match the external dimensions of standard magazines offered by the OFM for the approved handgun are permitted. Aftermarket sights of the same type and kind offered by the OFM for the approved handgun are permitted, provided their installation and/or adjustment requires no alteration to the handgun. Aftermarket grips which match the profile of the OFM standard for the approved handgun and/or the application of tape on grips is permitted, however, rubber sleeves are prohibited.

Last years equipment poll had Sig as the 2nd most used gun in USPSA production.

Apparently I only took into consideration Level III and above matches. Yeah I remember sandbaggers in Bowling and golf, they sandbagged to get a higher handycap The way I see it is this. I will wave at the sandbaggers as I level past them.

Thank you Flexmoney