Smm3g 2007

[AZ Stats Chic]

2007 Superstition Mountain Mystery 3-Gun Lottery

We are instituting a lottery system for registration this year. This will reduce the cost of registration to the entrants (overnight shipping) and make the registration process fair and equitable. We are opening up the registration window from now through January 15th, 2007. All applications received after January 15th, 2007 will be returned. Applications received without the appropriate entry fee enclosed will also be returned.

All applications will be assigned a number and we will assign slots by random draw. A waiting list will also be drawn at the same time – limited to 50 additional applications. You will be notified on or after January 18th, 2007.

10/30/2006 SMM3G Executive Staff

Applications will be available soon...

For more information - visit our web site: SMM3G Web site

A2Chic

[George]

I have finally discovered something that Sux and Blowz at the same time ;-)

Match entry lottery! Whats next. prize table and order of actual finish by drawing too ;-)

Seriously, this is not a good development. Actually finding a way to handle more folks, or using the Ft. Benning order of receipt time/date method that disallows using express mail would have been a better choice here IMHO.

Ah well! I guess this is one match bank account that won't be garnering interest on my match fee's in the forseeable future.

Good luck with the new entry format, hopefully it will do for the match what you intended for it to do.

[D.Hayden]

If you get in, what's the arrangements on getting your fees back, in case you decide not to go?

If there's a group of people getting down there and only 2 of 5 make it, probably the whole group will cancel.

[shred]

I think I'd rather have the match staff do the random draw than the US mail, but there ought to be some way to split the difference.

[George]

If there's a group of people getting down there and only 2 of 5 make it, probably the whole group will cancel.

And therin lies the rub!

Dave has put his finger exactly on it.

[apriav]

If you get in, what's the arrangements on getting your fees back, in case you decide not to go?

If there's a group of people getting down there and only 2 of 5 make it, probably the whole group will cancel.

1+ think about it.

[George]

Shred, the Ft. Benning method was not based on Post Office delivery time, but on the timestamp on the postmark. Not the same thing at all and much fairer that the FedEx Priority 1 nightmare SMMG entry was using in the past. Besides, when 300+ P1 ON delivered entries got delivered on one morning, who was deciding what fair order they were opened in anyway ;-)

I hope the way the entrance lottery kills planning on going with friends doesn't kill the match in the long run.

[Religious Shooter]

Sounds allright. But I don't think it will take the US Mail over two months (early November to Jan 15) to deliver an app from say Alaska, Hawaii or Maine.

I'd prefer that you close the registration on December something instead of January 15. You have from early November to December something to get the app in via snail mail. Plenty of time for the applicants and the US Mail to do their thing.

Having the December something deadline will give people more time to cancel (if Berkim's scenario happens), plan, etc.

Also for groups... how about giving them the option of treating them as one entry? If their entry wins the whole group goes.

Edited October 31, 2006 by Religious Shooter

[bigbrowndog]

i'd rather see the DPMS method, than this. but i'll play the game at least this year and see how it goes

hopefully the match won't suffer

trapr

[D.Hayden]

Having the December something deadline will give people more time to cancel , plan, etc.

Also for groups... how about giving them the option of treating them as one entry? If their entry wins the whole group goes.

Both, great suggestions..

[outerlimits]

i hated the old way, the lottery idea is cool-except having to wait till 1.5 months before the match to see if you get in...not much worse than the old way. i'm thinking the match probably ain't worth it anymore. ft benning starting to look even better, and rpm a must. dpms supposed to be really good too. with the 3gun nats in tulsa, i think i'll try ft. benning next yr.

[uscbigdawg]

I'm planning on shooting the 2008 match when I come back from Afghanistan. However the format is, I'm sure that I'll be e-mailing my entry along with some form of wire transfer to the match staff as we won't be back before the bidding for 2008 starts.

So, resolve how this is going to get done 'cause I'm planning on it as my post-deployment leave and flying the fiance from CA to PHX, to join me.

Rich

[jhgtyre]

The application has been posted.

-ld

[IanLock]

Hello all.

If i put anyones back up or nose out of joint, then i appoligise in advance....Prepare for a rant....!!!!!!!!

This is by far the dumbest thing i have ever heard off, lottery entry for a match...WTF!!??!!

I am a big fan of this match, i think probably the best 3 gun match of the year, but a number of this are wrong with the lottery idea.

1) What about groups, if only half my group of guys get in then the whole lot will probably wont bother.

2) What about international shooters??? i am am one of about 8 or 9 Shooters from the UK that love to attend this match, we have to book flights, hotels, vaction time, and things quite a while in advance. Not finding out till mid january is asking a bit much.

What about all the big names and pro shooters, if say Burkett, Butler, and Miller dont get in. This can only do the comp harm, as i think i helps draw in the crowds, and the sponsers.

Here is my solution, if it is so over subscribed, put the price up, to Help pay for more range crew to run the comp over a longer period of time, say 5 days. and to cover the cost or hiring the range itself.

Or split the comp run it over 2 week ends instead of one.......

There are so many better ideas, i could go on for ages, than doing a lottery draw. It probably is the fairest, but still sucks.!?!?!?

I think the match will only suffer in the long run. But i bet it will still fill up.

This comps problem is that it is to good!!!! The people in charge need to recognise this and instead of limiting it and having alot of disapointed shooters, EXPAND make it even bigger and better. THINK BIG!! If that is the way this comp seems to naturally want to go then let it. Make it the PREMIER Match of the year, that no one can afford to miss...

Lottery = Dumb

More slots, bigger prise table, more people....= Good

Just my 2 cents.

Feel free to slate me if you want, but thats the way i seen it.

Ian

London,UK

And yes my spelling is crap.lol

[Scout454]

+1 to Ian.

I'm retired and I'm not in a financial position to tie up $235 for two and a half months on a lottery.

[StealthyBlagga]

What about local shooters ? I am fortunate in being able to afford travel to other matches, but many locals cannot... this is their one chance to shoot a match of this stature. It sucks to miss out on a match like this that is right in your back yard.

[George]

I am going to stick my neck out here and make a prediction on the what the final competitor list will show via this lottery system. My guess is that you will find every single regular super squad member present and the lottery driven attendance holes starting to appear further down the food chain. No matter the intention, my guess is this will be the result.

I am with Ian here, if this match sells out at $235 bux, it will still sell out at $335 bux and probably even at $400. Raise the fee then take the extra money and make the match fit the crowd. Don't try to make the crowd fit the match!

[AZ38super]

Wow!, there is no way we can even attempt to keep everyone happy but yet so many are quick to throw out the comments.

The problem lies in the fact that the shooters involved with this match and the Desert Classic put on to good of a match and everyone wants to shoot them. You make many good points but here is the problem to many of them.

1. Nobody gets paid here it is all donated time including taking time off of real work to setup and help work the match.

2. The range is only so big and we can only handle so many shooters in the timeframe.

3. There is only so much time available to take over the whole range as is done with a match like this as there are lots of other events going on using the range as well, So more days or weekends causes problems. (see also 1 and 2.)

4. No preference is given to one application over another based on a name written on them.

5. Raising the entry makes the match for the elite who can afford the higher entry and that is not fair to the rest who cannot afford the higher fees or to travel long distances.

Maybe if we can get 70 to 100 of you fellow shooters to take time off and come help out we can find a way to make it work as you suggested.

I myself worked this match for the first time last year and I don’t even shoot the match as I can’t afford all the toys to play. But I stood in the rain/snow on Saturday for over twelve hours running shooters on a stage so they could have fun and enjoy a great match. So yes I take some of the comments a bit as a personal attack on those that put in all the FREE time and effort to work on a match of this level. I see the amount of work they have put forward and people seem to overlook that as being easy.

Many of those involved work on the match from before last years ended to get this one ready, so it is a revolving circle that never ends.

Sorry for the rant but I can see this getting out of control fast.

[SinistralRifleman]

So when will sponsorship registrations be available?

If you're going to use any system to trim down entries, it should be as follows:

1) Rio Salado Practical Division members get 1st preference

2) Rio Salado Range Members get 2nd preference

3) Any Arizona Residents get 3rd preference

...anyone can become a range member or Practical Division member.

Edited October 31, 2006 by SinistralRifleman

[mike_pinto]

AZ38super,

I think that is what they are saying. If we kicked another $100 into the entry it might do two things. 1, Limit the number of entries, and 2, compensate all you good folks who do work the match and maybe get more help.

I have already forcasted my vacation in hopes to get into the match, and am already starting to practice for that one match. It is my super bowl, world series, and US Open all wrapped up into one match. (wonder if that will score points with the lottery pickers? )

My app and entry fee is already on it's way. Wondering if they are going to cash the check when received, or when/if you are drawn?

Mike

[kellyn]

So when will sponsorship registrations be available?

If you're going to use any system to trim down entries, it should be as follows:

1) Rio Salado Practical Division members get 1st preference

2) Rio Salado Range Members get 2nd preference

3) Any Arizona Residents get 3rd preference

...anyone can become a range member or Practical Division member.

+1 on that!

[uscbigdawg]

I'll say this. I love this match, but at $400, it's a tough call. I'd probably still do it, but it definitely raises the bar for the elite getting in.

I'm for a first come first served system. Just the way it goes. Period. The top shooters are going to get in regardless due to sponsorship slots, so no harm/loss there. As for the rest of us, you're either in or your out, it's that simple.

Here's a solution, how about another range take notes on what Rio Solado does right and try to replicate it somewhere else. Hint: we just got a new highspeed range in Tulsa that has proven to fit our needs quite well and has easy routes in from two airports (OKC and Tulsa).

Another option is the folks in Arizona considering holding a second match but know that due to the level of effort that's put on for the SMM3G it's a year long effort, but something to consider.

I'm not to keen on raising the match fees, but there's gotta be some kind of medium between a lottery and a first come first served on the applications.

Rich

P.S. I'm completely against a longer match and multiple weekends doesn't work either 'cause the crew is just getting beat up at that point.

[George]

$100 extra for 250 competitors is $25,000.00. That's enough scratch to add a whole lotta' worker amenities and do a decent amount of compensation to boot. Lotsa' folks would jump on 4-5 days solid work at $125-$175/day depending on the job they have to do. Use the volunteers for supervision and worker training and the hired help for the actual labor.

I would easily pay $100 extra to go if that is what it took to make it no lotto and/or handle a bigger crowd.

If the gas prices go up by .50/gallon between now and then, you could easily pay more than $100 extra to drive to this match from out of state. Considering what this sport actually costs, a hunnert extra bux ain't no biggie to most, if not all of us when it comes right down to it ;-)

[ERIC]

I think the lottery system is a very bad idea. I hope they change their minds.

[uscbigdawg]

The last time I shot this match, I drove. Just made for a fun 5 day weekend. Plus I got to see my brother at Luke AFB. I got a good rental car, great gas mileage and a pleasure to drive. However, I wouldn't do it again.

Flying is it for me, especially since Southwest doesn't charge you for "recreational" baggage. Ammo? Ship it. Match staff is more than happy to have your packages waiting for you at match registration. Hell for that matter, I'd almost ship my guns (to my brother's or friends') just to fly with only the clothes for the weekend.

The convenience is of this match makes it very attractive. Again, why someone in say the midwest needs to pay attention and follow the recipe. Good stages that aren't gimicky AT ALL. Multi-gun stages for all if not most of them. Long range shots mixed in with CQ shots. Runnin' and gunnin' mixed in with accuracy (see the stages that always make you run down the wash or up into that damn bunker on the hill ), they spend money on the targets (Larue's, MGM flashers, etc.). They are VERY organized and unapologetically enforce rules THAT MAKE SENSE and are great folks to work with.

The last match I shot was the last match for Furbee as match director. Unquestionably the best 3-Gun match I've ever participated in (second best match period I've been in).

I'm going in 2008. A question for lottery staff, can we send in multiple entries and then E-Bay them bad boys off? I'm totally kidding, but it's something to consider if envelopes just get put into a sack. If it's a lottery I guess it's alright. Better for all though if it's first come.

Rich