Combined Match Results

[AikiDale]

Below are the combined division results of a recent local match. Interesting to see how the Divisions and Classifications stack up in a match.

Place Class Division PF Match Pts Match %

1 GM Open Major 523.6973 100.00%

2 A Limited Major 517.8112 98.88%

3 A Open Major 484.1147 92.44%

4 B Open Major 470.4334 89.83%

5 B Open Major 438.0532 83.65%

6 B Limited Major 433.0923 82.70%

7 B Limited 10 Major 413.6844 78.99%

8 U Production Minor 383.3408 73.20%

9 B Limited Major 376.9055 71.97%

10 D Limited 10 Major 350.3729 66.90%

11 B Production Minor 343.3904 65.57%

12 C Production Minor 326.1041 62.27%

13 A Production Minor 324.6675 62.00%

14 B Limited 10 Major 310.5882 59.31%

15 C Single Stack Major 309.7185 59.14%

16 B Limited 10 Major 307.6478 58.75%

17 U Open Major 307.6346 58.74%

18 B Limited Major 303.6054 57.97%

19 B Revolver Major 302.4059 57.74%

20 U Single Stack Major 288.0306 55.00%

21 B Single Stack Major 276.6283 52.82%

22 B Revolver Major 268.9156 51.35%

23 B Open Major 266.947 50.97%

24 C Open Major 262.6099 50.15%

25 C Single Stack Minor 259.1199 49.48%

26 U Limited Major 250.8617 47.90%

27 B Single Stack Major 247.3606 47.23%

28 U Production Minor 218.0443 41.64%

29 D Revolver Major 194.1575 37.07%

30 U Single Stack Major 193.5311 36.96%

31 U Limited 10 Major 187.9966 35.90%

32 U Limited 10 Major 178.1082 34.01%

33 U Limited 10 Major 156.4536 29.88%

34 U Production Minor 145.8658 27.85%

35 U Production Minor 142.6108 27.23%

[Al Capizzo]

I don't pay much attention to combined results because they are based on match points.

The only way to get a true comparison of competitors in different divisions is to compare hit factors.

[AikiDale]

The following comes from EZWS when the combined results are printed. Am I incorrect in assuming one hit factor is used for the combined?

Combined divisions - these are NOT official results. Odd things happen when comparing these Combined results to the By Division results. Sometimes the 'Order of Finsh' changes. Normaly this only occurs when two shooters have very similar scores in the By Division results. This is because a different High Hit factor was set for stages in the Combinded results. This is a normal occurance, but it takes more of a math whiz than me to explain.

[haras]

(chuckle)

Our club regularly publishes a combined results. It's based on hit factor and brings back memories of the way it was "Way back when". Since I'm currently shooting revolver I get a certain satisfaction in seeing how many autoloaders I whooped that day.

http://www.teammagnolia.com/classic/2006/combined_final.txt

edited to add link

Edited May 24, 2006 by haras

[dajarrel]

Combined divisions - these are NOT official results. Odd things happen when comparing these Combined results to the By Division results. Sometimes the 'Order of Finsh' changes. Normaly this only occurs when two shooters have very similar scores in the By Division results. This is because a different High Hit factor was set for stages in the Combinded results. This is a normal occurance, but it takes more of a math whiz than me to explain.

I lost the Alabama section revolver championship a couple of years ago by less than a half a percent, about 5 match points. But in the overall results, I actually had a higher score than the winner.

FWIW

dj

[Airedale]

Aikidale,

I like it.

I'll take 51% of GM Max with my wheelgun against his open blaster.

Dave

[davidball]

I like looking at combined results. No, it is not a valid comparison for scoring purposes, but, as Airedale pointed out, when I beat similar or higher classified Open shooters with my Limited gun, it tells me something about any progress I am making in trying to become a better shooter.

[JakeMartens]

I like looking at it as well on how I stacked up against other shooters in other divisions and classification.

It also reminds me that no matter how fast I shoot a stage, that D's just really suck in Production shooting minor!!!!

But it does give me a certain satisfaction when I finish higher than other shooters in Limited 10 and Limited that are shooting major.

[AikiDale]

I like looking at combined results. No, it is not a valid comparison for scoring purposes, but, as Airedale pointed out, when I beat similar or higher classified Open shooters with my Limited gun, it tells me something about any progress I am making in trying to become a better shooter.

Why is it not a valid comparison? Are these not the results we would see if the match were shot with no divisions? Don't get too mathematical on me, I was an English major....

While this is just a local level I match and only one sample it seems to indicate it's the shooter far more than the platform which determines outcome (as if we didn't already know that), but just how much of a difference with more data is beginning to interest me so I am looking for a valid comparison. If the EZWS combined is not a valid comparison of shooters what would be?

[davidball]

Why is it not a valid comparison? Are these not the results we would see if the match were shot with no divisions?

Because equipment differences do mean results differences. The data supports this. Open shooters will be more prevalent at the top (4 in the top ten of your list, none in the bottom ten) and Production and Revolver shooters will be more prevalent at the bottom (1 in the top ten, 4 in the bottom ten). Perhaps it would be more appropriate to say that the combined data is a less valid comparison than the division data.

Yes, these are the results we would see if the match was shot with no divisions. But if there were no divisions, a lot of the participants in your list would be changing equipment PDQ.

[Rob Boudrie]

But if there were no divisions, a lot of the participants in your list would be changing equipment PDQ.

Or, if they were not willing to spring $3K or so for an open gun they might just defect to IDPA or one of the other shooting sports where you can actually win with an out of the box gun.

[AikiDale]

Ah! Then it is a valid comparison, it is not a level playing field.

You guys had me worried there was something wrong with the math. I had no intention of starting a Division War. I'm okay with cars having Formula 1, Indy, NASCAR, Gran Prix and Drag racing too.

[m.e.t.]

I have to agree with those who enjoy the combined results. You cannot deny David's comment about besting an open shooter of known skill with a limited gun. Besides most of the time I have to find something to hold onto. Cause the same bunch of folks have been kicking me around for years in limited. At least in a combined results format I can say I beat somebody.

[9x21]

I say show both!

if some beat you from a "lesser" division then yours, sobeit

(you sucked)

you may still have done better in your class than the combined overall results ( IF it's helps your ego).

See all, tell all!

personally ,I want to know when someone kicks my buttttttttttttttt

[JFD]

All local results around here only provide combined results. I believe that's what most people want to see around here. Combined results are all I'm really interested in.

I compare my results to the guys that I've targeted for that purpose. Guys I'm currently stalking, getting ready to pounce ahead of in the results; and folks I've pounced ahead of them in the past and I want to make sure they continue to be "victims"; and anyone else with "known ability". I've still got a lot of room for improvement, so there's no excuse for falling back.

As a B class shooter I don't usually have a lot of hope for winning Limited Division right now, so Divisional results are only mildly interesting. Of course I'll check to see who won B class Limited, but it means even less to me.

[ChuckS]

if some beat you from a "lesser" division then yours, sobeit

(you sucked)

Or they sandbagged

[2alpha]

Seems to me those usually interested in combined results are the same people who like to brag that I beat ole so and so with my crappy revolver and he was shooting that new open gun, yuk yuk yuk I'm so good. Yeh but how did you do against YOUR competition?

[Steve J]

Truth hurts humor deleted.

Edited May 25, 2006 by Steve J

[davidball]

All local results around here only provide combined results. I believe that's what most people want to see around here.

I recently shot a club match in Arizona. Not only did they ONLY publish the combined results, but they did not publish results for individual stages (at least not on the internet posted results) - just the combined overall.

[JakeMartens]

I like the combined results, but also want to see the division results and stage results.

Dave-

Just tell Joseph not to change the way he does it, I like that way!!!

[davidball]

Dave-

Just tell Joseph not to change the way he does it, I like that way!!!

You can count on that!

[MikeFoley]

I like the combined, but for a different reason. I shot in this match Aikidale used as the example. I shot Limited. The usual competition in Limited didn't show up that day, and I had the highest HF on every stage in Limited. I had no idea how I actually performed, though it felt pretty good. The combined division results that showed me second overall with 98.88% to the Open GM at least gave me a baseline. It is meaningless because of the variables, but it gives me a comparison to a better shooter. No hiding in the combined results for sure.

[Carl]

When I score Matches, I create files in EzWinScore, by division, by stage (combined), and the ever popular All Divisions (combined). Seems to satisfy

Carl

[wgnoyes]

I like the combined results, but also want to see the division results and stage results.

Dave-

Just tell Joseph not to change the way he does it, I like that way!!!

Actually, I think we're obligated by the rule book and our club charters to provide by-division results as that is how matches are officially scored and awards officially determined. The addition of the "Unofficial Combined Results" is fine and welcome (you'll find no stronger a proponent of combined results than me) but they cannot be the sole published results in a real USPSA match.

[Jim Norman]

I like the combined, but for a different reason. I shot in this match Aikidale used as the example. I shot Limited. The usual competition in Limited didn't show up that day, and I had the highest HF on every stage in Limited. I had no idea how I actually performed, though it felt pretty good. The combined division results that showed me second overall with 98.88% to the Open GM at least gave me a baseline. It is meaningless because of the variables, but it gives me a comparison to a better shooter. No hiding in the combined results for sure.

This is exactly why the Combined Results are liked by so many of us. Often at a local match you find yourself one of a small group in a division where the skill levels are very disparate. You may be an A and the other two shooters could be a C and a D. Sure you "Win" the division, but how did you really do? Over in another division, there may well be a GM and M or two. It may be a division you shoot on occasion, or that you never shoot, but the comparison of how your time and points stack up against them is a much better indicator of your current performance than how you shot against a person two or three classes behind you. You got 100% on every stage compared to their 50%. Not reallly something to write home about. Sort of like going up against Ken Shamrock if you are a white belt. He really didn't prove anything.

Jim Norman