Match Ammo

[Barrettone]

OK Guys:

How about this then. At the next Level III match I produce, I shall include the following verbage in the official match book:

"All ammo entering the official match area (delineated here within <insert map of range facilities>), is deemed to be in "use" by the competitor and shall be subject to chronograph."

Seems to me, that as the MD, it is a "procedural and administrative issue", and well within my rights to enforce in this manner. How would you address that? I am not "making a rule", but rather, making a CLARIFICATION. You have the right to not attend if you don't like the possibility of ALL YOUR AMMO being subject to chrono. Now we have crossed into the rhealm of policy/administration versus what you consider "ambiguous verbage" in the rulebook.

DVC,

Jeff

Edited October 8, 2008 by Barrettone

[Merlin Orr]

.....If you enter the match area with it, then you can potentially USE IT. If we said it was only USED AMMO, then how in the hell are we gonna chrono already fired rounds?!?! Because according to your definition, it is only USED AMMO. This is absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe I'm actually discussing this. It's almost like discussing Clinton's definition of "is". Apparently, common sense has all but disappeared.

QUOTE THE RULE...QUOTE THE RULE!!!

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

So, General Cosgrove, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery and shooting.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

But you're equipping them to become violent killers!

GENERAL COSGROVE:

Well, Ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?

You seem to be using the same type of reasoning as the Female Interviewer....

[Barrettone]

.....If you enter the match area with it, then you can potentially USE IT. If we said it was only USED AMMO, then how in the hell are we gonna chrono already fired rounds?!?! Because according to your definition, it is only USED AMMO. This is absolutely ridiculous. I can't believe I'm actually discussing this. It's almost like discussing Clinton's definition of "is". Apparently, common sense has all but disappeared.

QUOTE THE RULE...QUOTE THE RULE!!!

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

So, General Cosgrove, what things are you going to teach these young boys when they visit your base?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

We're going to teach them climbing, canoeing, archery and shooting.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

Shooting! That's a bit irresponsible, isn't it?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see why, they'll be properly supervised on the rifle range.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

Don't you admit that this is a terribly dangerous activity to be teaching children?

GENERAL COSGROVE:

I don't see how. We will be teaching them proper rifle discipline before they even touch a firearm.

FEMALE INTERVIEWER:

But you're equipping them to become violent killers!

GENERAL COSGROVE:

Well, Ma'am, you're equipped to be a prostitute, but you're not one, are you?

You seem to be using the same type of reasoning as the Female Interviewer....

Negative...I am simply pointing out that, as responsible gun owners, we should all be able to account for our ammo, and bring to the range only what we intend to USE for the match. Are you telling me that you cannot be that responsible? How about going through the airport checkpoint with a few stray rounds rolling around in your bag, and seeing how it goes over? If you can do it when you go on a plane, you can do it when attending a USPSA match. If you bring it, you intend to use it as far as I'm concerned. If you take the squishy middle on this, you open the door to cheating. My first consideration is safety (like helping you (via the rules) make sure you don't have major PF open 9mm rounds rolling around in your bag that can run through your production gun (possibly blowing it up), the second is maintaining a level playing field for all (which can also be accomplished, as the guy next to you can chrono one thing and then shoot another that he brought in his bag). The fact that the competitor DOESN'T KNOW where the rounds will be pulled from really helps to keep people honest. It also helps to keep the match flowing as the liklihood of have to continuously re-chrono people due to suspicion of under-powered ammo goes down exponentially. All the above factors bolster the case for random ammo draw FROM ANY SOURCE that is brought onto the range.

My thoughts,

Jeff

Edited October 9, 2008 by Barrettone

[Nik Habicht]

The fact that the competitor DOESN'T KNOW where the rounds will be pulled from really helps to keep people honest.

I guess that's at the heart of our disagreement --- and you must have encountered a different breed of people from the ones I regularly compete with. Most, if not near all, USPSA competitors of my acquaintance are honest. They would never consider trying to cheat the system. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this....

I'm done, I think.....

[pjb45]

No offense to the great majority of shooters in USPSA but I have seen few guys chrono major and shoot the match with a gun with no muzzle flip. Most recently at this year's National.

It is even worse at local matches. I was shooting at club, not in my home state, where the guy was shooting "major" .45. His gun had no muzzle flip. And it was not because of his awesome grip. I mentioned to one of the club members and he gave me that look of "yeah we know he is shooting minor but he is a senior member of the club."

I would not mind at the Area or National matches if they just sent someone around to pick up the chrono rounds during the match. A2 has employed various and interesting ways of getting chrono rounds. If they can do it, so can everyone else.

[Flexmoney]

OK Guys:

How about this then. At the next Level III match I produce, I shall include the following verbage in the official match book:

"All ammo entering the official match area (delineated here within <insert map of range facilities>), is deemed to be in "use" by the competitor and shall be subject to chronograph."

Seems to me, that as the MD, it is a "procedural and administrative issue", and well within my rights to enforce in this manner. How would you address that? I am not "making a rule", but rather, making a CLARIFICATION. You have the right to not attend if you don't like the possibility of ALL YOUR AMMO being subject to chrono. Now we have crossed into the rhealm of policy/administration versus what you consider "ambiguous verbage" in the rulebook.

DVC,

Jeff

Jeez...you are kidding, right? Who the heck are you...to start "deeming" ??? Trying to get your match UNsanctioned? Come on. You, as a match official, are gonna have to follow the rule book. Why don't you want to??

If you'd like to make an exception to the USPSA rule book, then you will need specific prior approval from the Regional Director/Prez to do so.

3.3 Applicability of Rules:

USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations

may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal

precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not

in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without

the express consent of the President of USPSA.

We got rules for everything, brother.

I don't know if you shoot A5 this year (I didn't). I recall that the match book tried to put their own slant on something (Make Ready or sight pictures?). That was dropped pretty quick.

What is wrong with reading the rules?

[JThompson]

Do a pull of ammo off the belt on a random stage... The RO points to a mag/s and takes them from there.

Done and done.

Seems pretty heated for such a simple thing......

[steel1212]

Do a pull of ammo off the belt on a random stage... The RO points to a mag/s and takes them from there.

Done and done.

Seems pretty heated for such a simple thing......

Seems pretty simple to me as well JT.

[Barrettone]

OK Guys:

How about this then. At the next Level III match I produce, I shall include the following verbage in the official match book:

"All ammo entering the official match area (delineated here within <insert map of range facilities>), is deemed to be in "use" by the competitor and shall be subject to chronograph."

Seems to me, that as the MD, it is a "procedural and administrative issue", and well within my rights to enforce in this manner. How would you address that? I am not "making a rule", but rather, making a CLARIFICATION. You have the right to not attend if you don't like the possibility of ALL YOUR AMMO being subject to chrono. Now we have crossed into the rhealm of policy/administration versus what you consider "ambiguous verbage" in the rulebook.

DVC,

Jeff

Jeez...you are kiiding, right? Who the heck are you...to start "deeming" ??? Trying to get your match UNsanctioned? Come on. You, as a match official, are gonna have to follow the rule book. Why don't you want to??

If you'd like to make an exception to the USPSA rule book, then you will need specific prior approval from the Regional Director/Prez to do so.

3.3 Applicability of Rules:

USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations

may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal

precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not

in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without

the express consent of the President of USPSA.

We got rules for everything, brother.

I don't know if you shoot A5 this year (I didn't). I recall that the match book tried to put their own slant on something (Make Ready or sight pictures?). That was dropped pretty quick.

What is wrong with reading the rules?

I am still within the rules. I just delineated when/where "use" comes into play for the match. You cross the line, and you bought it. That wordplay crap cuts both ways. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, as you and I could dance around on this issue forever.

Peace

[Merlin Orr]

The fact that the competitor DOESN'T KNOW where the rounds will be pulled from really helps to keep people honest.

I guess that's at the heart of our disagreement --- and you must have encountered a different breed of people from the ones I regularly compete with. Most, if not near all, USPSA competitors of my acquaintance are honest. They would never consider trying to cheat the system. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this....

I'm done, I think.....

I think Nik says it here pretty clearly.

And, although it is becoming apparent you have a pretty low opinion of the moral character of the USPA shooter or just people in general, ....I need no help in being honest.

[jhgtyre]

You can't just redefine "use" to suit your needs. It means what it means.

-ld

[Ming the Merciless]

OK Guys:

How about this then. At the next Level III match I produce, I shall include the following verbage in the official match book:

"All ammo entering the official match area (delineated here within <insert map of range facilities>), is deemed to be in "use" by the competitor and shall be subject to chronograph."

Seems to me, that as the MD, it is a "procedural and administrative issue", and well within my rights to enforce in this manner. How would you address that? I am not "making a rule", but rather, making a CLARIFICATION. You have the right to not attend if you don't like the possibility of ALL YOUR AMMO being subject to chrono. Now we have crossed into the rhealm of policy/administration versus what you consider "ambiguous verbage" in the rulebook.

DVC,

Jeff

In that case I wouldn't be coming to your match for 2 reasons.

1. My wife shoots minor 9mm and I shoot major 9mm. Both of our ammo is carried in the same range bag on our cart. It is CLEARLY marked using different color markers and is in CLEARLY marked boxes so unless we are forced to load mags in pitch dark it is not going to be accidently mixed up.

2. If this is your attitude towards your customers (the shooters) then I won't be doing business with you since you clearly believe that we must be forced into honesty. No Thank You!

[HSMITH]

Throw a cheap chrono up on each stage at an arbitrary and previously undisclosed time, say 10am for discussion. Everyone right then and there pulls a mag off their belt and submits it. Three rounds, RO shoots them, make major and you are good to go if declared major. Make minor and declared major you go to the official match chrono RIGHT NOW with the same mag. Same for declared minor and sub minor ammo.

It is SO easy for people without integrity to game the chrono, I am all for identifying them and scoring them appropriately. This is like golf, the overwhelming majority of players play within the rules, it is the very few cheaters that even make this discussion possible.

[rvb]

Negative...I am simply pointing out that, as responsible gun owners, we should all be able to account for our ammo, and bring to the range only what we intend to USE for the match. Are you telling me that you cannot be that responsible? How about going through the airport checkpoint with a few stray rounds rolling around in your bag, and seeing how it goes over? If you can do it when you go on a plane, you can do it when attending a USPSA match.

Wow. So now we are comparing the match staff to the TSA? Not only would I not want to shoot that match, I wouldn't want to work it.

I bet in 2 minutes you could google the TSA rule saying "thou shalt not take ammo to the terminal." *

I bet it will take you longer to find the rule saying "thou shalt not have more than one type of ammo in your posession" in the uspsa book.

If the book meant that, it would have a rule saying "Possession of any ammo other than your intended match ammo is a DQ." But it doesn't.

My backup open gun is my production gun. Damn skippy I'm bringing minor ammo with me.

I agree we are all ABLE to do what you say. I disagree that a "not-intended-for-match-use ammo ban" is the solution to the [almost nonexistent] problem.

-rvb

ps. I'm glad that 99.9% of these types of discussions exist on the internet so match days are 99.9% a real hoot.

* I saw in the news today TSA let some guy on a plane who brought inert grenades with him!

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,434683,00.html

Apparently TSA understands 5.5.4. Since he didn't intend to use it they didn't penalize him!

[Neomet]

Okay, I'm just the FNG here so be gentle with me. :-) Is this really that big of a deal? I'm not being facetious, just asking. I haven't heard rumors of somebody running 130 PF and declaring major at any of the matches I have been to, and specifically not about anyone who is in the running for a division placing. Did someone above me move me down a notch from my mid C class finish? Possibly, but I just compete against myself. (Smart move given my current skill level.)

If this is a big deal then how about this if you really want to keep the cheaters from playing their game. At every stage of a Level III match the RO pulls anywhere from 2 to all of the shooter's names out of can with all the squad names in it. Nobody knows who is being called until they are ready to step into the box. Shooter steps into the box and is given the MR command. If he is the lucky winner he is told to unload and show clear. RO takes the top rounds out of the mag he had loaded and those are 1/2 his chrono rounds. Shooter then goes to the bottom of the shooting order or if he is the last shooter he is given all the time he needs to reload, get his game on and step back into the box. You do this on both days of the match, or if you are shooting through on one day you do it twice, once on the first half, once on the second half. Yeah, once your rounds are taken a cheater can go to his bunnyfart rounds and plink the rest of the day away but no system is completely cheaterproof.

Seems like a lot of work to me for what I don't really see as a problem, and might be contrary to the rules but hey, it's my .02

[scirocco38s]

Throw a cheap chrono up on each stage at an arbitrary and previously undisclosed time, say 10am for discussion. Everyone right then and there pulls a mag off their belt and submits it. Three rounds, RO shoots them, make major and you are good to go if declared major. Make minor and declared major you go to the official match chrono RIGHT NOW with the same mag. Same for declared minor and sub minor ammo.

It is SO easy for people without integrity to game the chrono, I am all for identifying them and scoring them appropriately. This is like golf, the overwhelming majority of players play within the rules, it is the very few cheaters that even make this discussion possible.

Do you guys really see and know that many shooters who are cheating the chrono? I go to a fair number of major matches and shoot at least 3 or 4 local matches a month and I dont see it. I know of 1 guy who I think does because of the way his gun act when shooting, but he cannot get thru a 6 stage match without at least 3 stages of gun/mag/ammo issues, so he is a non issue even if he does cheat. I wont shoot with the guy but I do see him shoot from time to time as you change stages and he is always having problems. I look at this as karma and he is getting what is diserved. As a person who shoots mostly open, and who is usually squaddded with other open shooters, I have not seen any shooter that is shooting submajor, I judge this by the way the gun reacts and the way the poppers fall over when shot. Maybe limited guys can do it with all the different powders being used and the varying loads/lengths, but most of the people I shoot with are constantly checking their load for pf, most of us shoot for 170 but will settle for 168.

I will say again that their are plenty of ways to get ammo for the chrono that is within the rules and willnot create controversythat I dont see the need to enter the shooters bag. If an RO watches a shooter and thinks he is shooting powderpuffs on a stage, remember the shooter and call the MD after the squad is finished and have the MD come and pull bullets off of him right after he shoots a stage at random. If he passes, then its over with and that is completely within the rules.

[shred]

I say "If you pull it out of your bag and load it into a magazine, speedloader or moon-clip (or hand it to the RO for chronoing), you are showing intent-to-use".

At USPSA Nationals, this year, somebody unknown dumped a handful of mystery ammo into my shooting bag. I can only assume it was a case of mistaken-identity-of-bag and a tired, wet shooter. To say that mystery-ammo should, or even has the slightest risk of being fired through my pistol for chrono purposes is absurd.

[driver8M3]

At USPSA Nationals, this year, somebody unknown dumped a handful of mystery ammo into my shooting bag. I can only assume it was a case of mistaken-identity-of-bag and a tired, wet shooter. To say that mystery-ammo should, or even has the slightest risk of being fired through my pistol for chrono purposes is absurd.

you left your bag unattended? that's crazy man. havent you ever heard those announcements saying not to do that?

oh wait, that's at the airport. never mind.

[JKSNIPER]

Relatively new to USPSA shooting also but I agree 100% with Jeff LaFave.

Be real guys.

If you bring the ammo into the range area a reasonable person can infer that you intend to use it in the match and therefore it can be chronoed.

Guys arguing that until they place the ammo in their mags or on their belt it is not in use are being (IMHO) unreasonable.

If you want to be a "Sea lawyer" about it......Technically the ammo is not "used" until it is fired.

If the match calls for a total of 250 rounds for all stages then its reasonable to assume the rounds in your bag that make up that number are those you are going to use in the match.

Do you really want to argue with a range official that the ammo you've been dragging all over the range from stage to stage is not ammo you will use?

Why'd you drag it around then?

Come on...if you believe that then theres a bridge here in NYC I have for sale....real cheap.

If guys insist on this agressive stance toward a R.O. asking for your ammo to be chronoed then its within the rules as quoted earlier here for the same R.O. to at every stage to have you go to the chrono and check your ammo.

Remember 2 can always play at the being an idiot game and the guy that gets the most attention is usually the guy causing the most ruckus. (Methinks thou doth protest too much)

I believe the rule said something to the effect that they can check your ammo at any time during the match.

If you don't want the light loads you use to practice or use in your carry weapon or use to shoot crows or whatever chronoed then leave them in the car or at home.

Have only your match ammo in the bag you're going to carry/wheel around.

Simple solution.

Think of it as a good excuse to spend some time cleaning out the range bag....a task we all should do from time to time.

Lets not get crazy over a rule that, according to those that have been around a while, is rarely used and then ( as reported here) its application has been very reasonable.

I don't think Jeff has inferred that shooters are prone to cheating or that the majority are prone to it.

I saw nothing in his posting to lead me to believe he thinks most of the shooters are cheating or attempting to do so.

That was an unfair accusation.

Enforcement of this rule is designed to catch the few people that do so.

IMHO The small amount of inconvenience of letting the RO pick 8 rounds out of my range bag should be tolerated to remove/identify those that try to get over.

JK

[Singlestack]

At USPSA Nationals, this year, somebody unknown dumped a handful of mystery ammo into my shooting bag. I can only assume it was a case of mistaken-identity-of-bag and a tired, wet shooter. To say that mystery-ammo should, or even has the slightest risk of being fired through my pistol for chrono purposes is absurd.

you left your bag unattended? that's crazy man. havent you ever heard those announcements saying not to do that?

oh wait, that's at the airport. never mind.

I guess it needs to be announced at our matches now too.

[Barrettone]

This is exactly my point guys...we are arguing about a non-existent problem. I have NEVER asked for ammo from someones bag, and have never even HEARD of it happening. Most every RO just asks for 8 rounds and lets the competitor provide them, or asks for them from a particular mag off the belt. You are all also right that 99.99% of all USPSA shooters are honest. HOWEVER, the mere POSSIBILITY that it COULD be requested from your bag is enough to deter the "gamers". I only posed my hypothetical matchbook wording to illustrate how being petty and arguing over the EXACT WORDING is RIDICULOUS. Any RM/MD can play that game too. So, if you want to throw common sense out the window by saying only "used" ammo can be chrono'd, then I can be equally ridiculous and create a situation where the competitor is MANDATED to comply utilizing another vehicle such as "defined boundries" under the guise of match management. I hope you all see how truly ridiculous it is that we are arguing about a non-existent problem!!! Everybody needs to take a breath and step back a bit. Our rulebook is a living, breathing document that is ever-evolving. However, we cannot account for EVERY POSSIBILITY without having a rulebook that requires a sherpa to cart it from stage to stage. Damn...you'd think it was February and everybody had cabin fever from not shooting for the last 4 months!!!

DVC,

Jeff

Edited October 9, 2008 by Barrettone

[Barrettone]

The fact that the competitor DOESN'T KNOW where the rounds will be pulled from really helps to keep people honest.

I guess that's at the heart of our disagreement --- and you must have encountered a different breed of people from the ones I regularly compete with. Most, if not near all, USPSA competitors of my acquaintance are honest. They would never consider trying to cheat the system. Looks like we'll have to agree to disagree on this....

I'm done, I think.....

Nik,

I share your frustration. However, sometimes the mere fact we have to have some rules, is because, unfortunately, we cannot believe the best in people. There are always those that wish to circumvent. Not many, but enough that it requires a rulebook. I like to always believe the best in people, but sometimes competition can bring out the worst. Don't be discouraged by it. Just understand that it is necessary.

Cheers my Friend,

Jeff

[shred]

This is exactly my point guys...we are arguing about a non-existent problem.

If the problem is non-existant, then let's just go with what's written in the rulebook. Yeah, you might theoretically lose one never-used 'tool', but there are plenty of other, better, tools in the toolbox.

How can taking rounds from the current shooter catch innocent shooters? Lots of people have posted reasons and actual examples of different types of ammo being innocently the same bag.

If we don't like a rule, change it, don't go all activist-judge 'reinterpreting' it. We know how that turns out.

[Flexmoney]

OK Guys:

How about this then. At the next Level III match I produce, I shall include the following verbage in the official match book:

"All ammo entering the official match area (delineated here within <insert map of range facilities>), is deemed to be in "use" by the competitor and shall be subject to chronograph."

Seems to me, that as the MD, it is a "procedural and administrative issue", and well within my rights to enforce in this manner. How would you address that? I am not "making a rule", but rather, making a CLARIFICATION. You have the right to not attend if you don't like the possibility of ALL YOUR AMMO being subject to chrono. Now we have crossed into the rhealm of policy/administration versus what you consider "ambiguous verbage" in the rulebook.

DVC,

Jeff

Jeez...you are kiiding, right? Who the heck are you...to start "deeming" ??? Trying to get your match UNsanctioned? Come on. You, as a match official, are gonna have to follow the rule book. Why don't you want to??

If you'd like to make an exception to the USPSA rule book, then you will need specific prior approval from the Regional Director/Prez to do so.

3.3 Applicability of Rules:

USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations

may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal

precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not

in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without

the express consent of the President of USPSA.

We got rules for everything, brother.

I don't know if you shoot A5 this year (I didn't). I recall that the match book tried to put their own slant on something (Make Ready or sight pictures?). That was dropped pretty quick.

What is wrong with reading the rules?

I am still within the rules. I just delineated when/where "use" comes into play for the match. You cross the line, and you bought it. That wordplay crap cuts both ways. I guess we'll just have to agree to disagree, as you and I could dance around on this issue forever.

Peace

Well Jeff, I thought you were done and I was going to let you fade away, but you came back for another bite or two. So, I'll keep giving you a hard time.

You can't say the word play goes both ways....when you aren't willing to respect the words.

How on Earth do you come off with thinking that YOU get to "delineate" the rules? Match officials aren't the rule makers. That isn't our game. That isn't USPSA. We have a rule book.

What make one person think that they trump the rule book? How do they know better than the rule book?

[AikiDale]

How on Earth do you come off with thinking that YOU get to "delineate" the rules? Match officials aren't the rule makers. That isn't our game. That isn't USPSA. We have a rule book.

What make one person think that they trump the rule book? How do they know better than the rule book?

Might I suggest match officials are required to implement the rules in the rule book? I think we agree on this. If so, the range official must read the rules. Then, and here's the catch, the range official must interpret what he reads. The range official's comprehension of those rules are what he enforces.

It is just possible a range official might think a shooter is using the ammunition in the range bag for the match. After all, he is carrying it at a match. If that ammo is a mixture of major and minor and the eight rounds selected by the range official happens to be minor and the shooter says, "That minor ammo is my wife's ammo. Mine is the major ammo right next to it." we have yet another situation calling for the range officials judgment. He can make the judgment the shooter is honest and accept the shooters explanation. If that is the correct call, and the shooter does indeed have ammo for two shooters in his bag then all is well. If the shooter is dishonest, then the range official has just been complicit in the cheating of the shooter in question and has possibly harmed the other shooters who are obeying the rules.

Is there a way to avoid this judgment call and to always be fair? How about having a rule that lets match officials have rounds for testing? Okay, if that sounds good how about during this random testing we let the person to be tested decide which rounds he turns in for testing? Oh, wait, that gets us back to trusting the shooter again. If we are going to trust the shooter to tell the truth why don't we just ask him if he meets power factor and not have the freaking chrono to begin with?

We do the Reagan thing; "Trust and verify."

For this to work, match officials may ask for rounds being used by the competitor. Being used has to mean those being carried by the competitor. Any other definition of the term use requires us to either only use those rounds actually being fired by the shooter which would mean stopping a competitor during the course of fire and taking rounds from him or brings us back to having absolute trust in the shooter which negates the need for the chrono.

If you have it in your possession you are using it. You may be using it to be a gentleman or just for weight training but you do have the use of it and it is available for the chrono.