.45acp In Production

[JakeMartens]

Was wondering if anyone had messed around with downloading the .45acp for use in production?

Was thinking that if you took the old NRA Bullseye loads, 185gr bullet at around

680-725 fps (or even some of the fangible 165gr bullets at around 775fps) you would get very soft shooting, big hole making set up.

Of course you would need to make sure it worked in your gun and would have to change to a lighter recoil spring in most cases.

Just wondering if anyone went this route.

[ima45dv8]

Not ACP, but I do know a guy working up some poofy Minor loads for a .45GAP to use in Production. Should be real comfy.

[bufit323]

I worked up some minor loads with bullseye behind a 230 LRN, shot really softly, but felt really slow. Like I could see the slide cycle.

[mike_pinto]

Which gun are you thinking about using? I thought about that too, but finding a good DA .45ACP is sometimes hard until Springfield came out with the XD in 45 ACP. It would just seem so expensive to shoot minor.

[spd522]

Not ACP, but I do know a guy working up some poofy Minor loads for a .45GAP to use in Production. Should be real comfy.

I also know a guy who did that with his 45 Gap Glock. I shot it and thought that the slower clunk-clunk movement of the slide was worse than firing the factory ammo. I didn't like it in that particular gun and actually shot better and faster with the factory ammo.

I have downloaded some 45 ACP before and it was quite soft. In my SIG P220, it was very pleasant to shoot but being a gun with 8 rd mags isn't the best for Production. I also shot some downloads in my Colt Defender and it was like shooting a .380.

With the right gun, it can be done but as mentioned, it still costs more than 9mm.

[JakeMartens]

I was thinking about the XD in .45acp with a 165gr bullet at 760-780fps would get you around 127-128 power factor. put in the heavier guide rod and cut some coils off the recoil spring.

I am already set up for .45acp reloading and not 9mm. If you compare the cost of reloading 9mm with 147gr bullets (which seems to be the favorite combo for the top production guys) the cost is similiar.

With the 165gr at around 800fps I think you would avoid the slow slide action you would get with a heavier bullet, especially with a fast burning powder like Clays and recoil would be similiar to the heavier 147gr loads or downloaded .40s&w loads.

Now I don't think there would be any advantage to this, other than maybe a few C's turned into A's every once in a great while, and maybe a little advantage on steel poppers, but not much. Just something I was thinking about and didn't know if anyone had messed around with it.

Might work good in the CZ 97 also, probably feel like shooting a .22 instead of a .45acp in that gun.

[rubberneck]

Jake any reason why you want the load to be in the 127-128 range? I have a single stack in 9MM that shoots faster using 138 pf ammo than it does with stuff in your range.

[Flexmoney]

I've seen/heard of a few G21 running in Production. I don't know the loads.

JoeD is running a G21 minor in IDPA's SSP, I believe. (and, he would likely share his load data)

I also am of the belief that you really wouldn't need to take the load down as close to the power factor floor as possible. I'd bet it would feel better, run better, and score better at about 135-145pf. ??

[Joe D]

Flex, I have put it on the back burner for a couple of months. I need to focus on my G35. The Al. IDPA State Championship is in April.

There are a couple of issues with the G21 that must be overcome first. The heavy slide prevents really light loads. Just last night I put an 11# spring in it. Have not shot it yet, but the slide action feels better. A 200 gr lead SWC feels pretty good at 650 fps. The slide is not slow. I am able to get .16 splits with it.

My Kimber feels much better. I have some 9 round mags that fit into the box. 10 rounds to start is not bad. Problem is I just don't shoot a 1911 as well as a Glock. Maybe more practice would help.

I think the "perfect" ESP gun would be a Caspian hi-cap in .45ACP. The Caspian grip appears to be smaller than the STI.

I also looked at a XD in .45. I don't care for the somewhat high bore axis. The new Taurus 24/7 Pro with a 5" barrel might work well also.

[JakeMartens]

It really is more of a question, I haven't worked anything up. I am actually going to shoot Production this year with a CZ SP01, but I have been considering getting a backup gun and really liked the feel of the XD, and I really like the .45acp (as the screen name implies) I know it doesn't make a big difference but I feel more comfortable with the bigger holes. I can see my hits, I know if I hit a popper pretty much anywhere it is going down, it is a confidence booster. Plus almost every match I have shot there is at least one or two stages that some 9mm C's are .45 A's!!!

I have been shooting Limited 10 and IDPA CDP using a single stack and loading a 200gr lswc at 830-850 fps for a 166-168pf, I was just thinking that a 185gr swc or 165gr would be a true powder puff load in the right gun.

After thinking about this some I think a 185gr swc at 700-725 in a CZ 97 with a slicked up Angus or Matt trigger job and the CZ Competition Sight might be something to look at. The extra wieght of the gun and lower recoil round with the right recoil spring could be pretty interesting to shoot.

To me the 200gr swc feels a little snappier than a 230gr, might get that same feel with a 185gr at 130pf with very little recoil. UHMMMMMM, something to think about

[mike_pinto]

I tell you, the 230gr over 3.8 of clays is SOFT and makes 169 PF in my 1911 and am sure it would cycle the XD. I have always shot 200gr SWC until recently.

My $.02 is to load for major whether you are shooting production or not. That way if you want to shoot L10 or limited, the recoil impulse won't feel any different. Just my crazy thinking!

Mike

[superdude]

i shoot a Para Ordnance LDA 45 in production. i like the big holes, too. I shoot a 230FMJ bullet with either 4.5 of N320; or 3.6 of N310. velocity is around 650fps (150 pf) in a 5 inch 1911 and its very tame, about like a 9mm load. i've not used lighter bullets mostly because i like the 100% reliability of the FMJ.

good luck

[Chuck D]

I set up a G21 for Production around Christmas time. It's a G21 with factory 3.5 lbs. connector, factory extended magazine release, factory slide stop release and Heinie slant-pro sights. The rest of the gun is bone stock Glock...including the stock recoil spring.

I use a 185g. jacketed bullet over 4.4g of WW Super Target. I get roughly 145-148 p.f.

Slide speed is a tad bit slower than I'd like but the gun functions flawlessly. Accuracy is acceptable at 2.5 inch groups at 25 yards from the factory barrel.

All in all a workable project gun that can be VERY copetitive in the hands of someone that believes in the 45acp/minor p.f. concept for Production Division. I look forward to putting it through its paces this summer.

By the way...the gun was a gift and I have a 55 gal. drum of 45acp brass so cost isn't as much of a concern as it would be for others.

45acp minor in Production..... GO FOR IT !!!

[TonyT]

I have used the 185 gr. Styar LSWCHP with either 3.8 gr. of HS-700S and RLP for ca 720 fps or the same bullet with 3.8 gr. VV N-310 and WLP for ca 780 fps. The first load is a real soft shooter and cycles my 1911 types with a 14 lb recoil spring. With the N-310 load a 15 or 16.5 lb spring seem appropriate.

Hope this helps.

Edited March 5, 2006 by TonyT

[thunderstick]

I find this very interesting the idea of shooting 45 acp in production. I had thought of the idea but never pursued it. A couple production questions (new to production):

The rules say the min. trigger pull is 5 lbs, so I take it my custom-glock trigger of 3.5 lbs is not permitted.

The other one is no max. capacity. So in 45 acp does that mean I can run all 13 rounds in high cap mag, if so doesn't that put you at a disadvantage to the 9mm guys?

thanks.

[eerw]

I find this very interesting the idea of shooting 45 acp in production. I had thought of the idea but never pursued it. A couple production questions (new to production):

The rules say the min. trigger pull is 5 lbs, so I take it my custom-glock trigger of 3.5 lbs is not permitted.

The other one is no max. capacity. So in 45 acp does that mean I can run all 13 rounds in high cap mag, if so doesn't that put you at a disadvantage to the 9mm guys?

thanks.

You are thinking of IPSC production...

In USPSA production..there is no minimum trigger weight...and there is a 10 round limit..so everything would be equal..so a .45acp or .45GAP would be very competitive in production here in USPSA land..

[thunderstick]

Perfect. That is what I had thought but wasn't sure about. Thanks for the info. On the min. trigger I thought I just saw on Vanek's website that his 1.5 lbs trigger wasn't legal in production anymore?

thanks,

since I have having a hard time with the rules I know location is important for magazine pouches but is there any specifics on type. Can I use my limited mags just behind the hip though?

[spook]

Thunderstick, a bone stock Glock with the 3.5lbs. connector installed will have a 5+lbs. trigger most of the times, so chances are it's good to go in Production Division in IPSC and USPSA.

[nheiny13]

Thunderstick, you can use whatever mag pouches you want as long as they are in the right place on you hip. Also Vanek's 1.5 lb trigger job is not legal because he relocate the pivot pin on the itself and fills in the old hole. According to production rule you can not have any external mods (with some exclusions of course, sights, grip tape etc.) and if you look hard enough you can see it is modifed.

Fortyfiveshooter: try 4.0gr WST behind a 230 LRN it is a VERY soft load, I have not yet chronoed it but according to Winchesters manual it goes 750 fps a 172 pf. So you can play around with that and shoot L10 if you want.

[38superman]

I also am of the belief that you really wouldn't need to take the load down as close to the power factor floor as possible. I'd bet it would feel better, run better, and score better at about 135-145pf. ??

+1.

In working up loads for L10, I always back off and work up to major power factor.

I have found many soft, flat, accurate loads along the way that didn't make major but would work just fine in production.

You don't have to load all the way down to 125 PF to have a viable production load.

Go for it.

Tls

Edited March 5, 2006 by tlshores

[JakeMartens]

Thanks for all the replies and loads

I have been shooting 4.2gr of Clays with a 200gr lswc for L10.

The .45acp in production was just a thought since I have 5000 + empty .45acp cases and several pounds of clays right now.

I have Wolf giving me ammo this year for Production, and before we poopoo Wolf they have just introduced a 147gr 9mm brass cased boxer primed round, I have two boxes that I haven't shot yet.

I am wanting to get a back up to my CZ SP01and was kicking around sticking with .45acp. Not sure what I plan on doing yet, but appreciate everyones input.