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Thoughts after first matches with Prod 15?


rowdyb

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I forgot about it and shot 3 gun this weekend. So I checked the USPSA match results and no one shot it. 

 

So, production is still dead. It's early though so maybe somebody will shoot it. I was considering it and still might but, I am thinking Single stack sounds more fun right now...... (Nobody shoots it either but,at least you get a 1911 lol)

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Shouldn't be a new thing. Most former production shooters had already played with entering as L minor once or twice I expect. Personally, will be entering as L 10 minor instead of production henceforth and forthwith. 

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I went through 4 pages of match results while bored at the airport Sunday night. I saw no resurgence of Prod numbers either. And just doing rough math, it seemed 90% of entrants at the idpa, uspsa, pcsl, steel (centerline pistols)  matches, were all guns w dots.

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Did anyone expect day one for Production to explode? That seems silly. If production participation just manages to hold over the next couple years, that's probably a win. If numbers drop then it either did nothing or made it worse. Most people that left spent a bunch of money on new gear, they're not likely to just drop that stuff and go back. 

 

There are no uspsa matches near me until March and that depends on the weather. First match of the year I'd expect 80% of the shooters wont even know Production is a 15 round division. 

 

I've was thinking about it, but I leaning towards just selling my two production guns to buy another 2011. 

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Well if you mean by explosion of numbers what I was looking for was if matches I'm familiar with went from 2 or 3 prod shooters to 4 or 5. If people were willing to that much of a change as early adopters I'd take it as a good sign the rule was well received. But I didn't see that.

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15 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

I was also curious if the 16 round gun shooting the dreaded  possible 8/8/8/8 arrays happened...

 

Did you shoot it, and if so, what did you think? I know you are a long time production guy so your opinion is interesting 

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1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

Did anyone expect day one for Production to explode?

 

Not at all, I just figured it would piss off the few of us that liked shooting production and had the belts & mags already set up as well as a long term affinity for limited round count and the more challenging accuracy needs & stage planning. 

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36 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

Did you shoot it, and if so, what did you think? I know you are a long time production guy so your opinion is interesting 

Due to my ongoing eye and balance issues from my neuro issue, I no longer shoot competitively. So I have to live that through other's experiences now. While I have shot IPSC Nats a handful of times, their stage design is different so hard to compare. When training for ipsc nats and shooting local uspsa matches in LImited, minor, using only 15 in a mag it did make things feel very different from 'traditional' uspsa Prod.

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A few locals here signed up for our match this coming weekend as Prod.  We'll see how it goes.  I shot a few locals using ipsc prod rules in Limited a few years ago to prep for IPSC Nats.  It's not all that different.  I doubt we'll see any sort of grand resurgence.   Once Prod lost the monopoly as being the only minor only division it's numbers tanked.  Even if all new shooters with iron sight guns go from A fudgecicle nobody but a few crayon chewers and winder likkers want to Prod now I doubt it'll move the needle much.

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54 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said:

 

Not at all, I just figured it would piss off the few of us that liked shooting production and had the belts & mags already set up as well as a long term affinity for limited round count and the more challenging accuracy needs & stage planning. 

 

Yeah, I'm sure a few are upset. Obviously not many since Prod is so small to begin with. While I haven't shot prod 15 I have shot CO 15 a few times.  It'll no doubt change the way production is played, and take some getting used too.

 

I wouldn't be surprised for some people to quit the sport and others to jump to SS. I think that will happen with any rule change to a existing division.

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You get people jumping in thinking maybe it's the one for them, and you get people jumping out because they don't like the change..  Then there are the new shooters that's what they happen to have.

 

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2 minutes ago, robchavous said:

 Once Prod lost the monopoly as being the only minor only division

I hate to admit but I forgot about that.... I think back to when I started in 2012 and yeah, if you wanted a 9, minor division Prod was it effectively. No pcc, no CO, no one really liked 9 minor in SS then, even fewer shot minor in Lim.... I keep forgetting the shift that happened before this shift. But this is me just talking out loud....

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5 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

I hate to admit but I forgot about that.... I think back to when I started in 2012 and yeah, if you wanted a 9, minor division Prod was it effectively. No pcc, no CO, no one really liked 9 minor in SS then, even fewer shot minor in Lim.... I keep forgetting the shift that happened before this shift. But this is me just talking out loud....


Yeah in the peak of Production it was the only place to play if you wanted to shoot 9 without some sort of a disadvantage.  This almost certainly inflated the participation numbers.

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One other thing, going from production to production 15 might be a solid litmus test to see if there's any reason to go from limited to limited min*r

 

Basically, does fairly drastically changing a division do anything to participation? 

 

At this point in USPSA the only one that I would say that did was carry optics when they increased the capacity.

 

But allowing more mods in production, allowing different holster placement in production and single stack, allowing eight rounds in revolver and, anything else that I'm not thinking of hasn't seemed to increase participation in any of those divisions.

 

This one will be an interesting one to watch

Edited by RJH
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4 minutes ago, robchavous said:


Yeah in the peak of Production it was the only place to play if you wanted to shoot 9 without some sort of a disadvantage.  This almost certainly inflated the participation numbers.

Yeah, it was the ugly stepsister to Limited and Open for the first few years, for the poor people that didn't have Pre-Bans, then it grew like crazy when people like Sevigny and Stegger started to specialize in it and there was real competition at the top.

 

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12 minutes ago, rowdyb said:

Well if less than 150 people are in Prod nats this year, I'll start to feel the rule change did nothing for the division.

 

With LO being part of the match from the start I think iron sight shooters better not waist any time signing up. I imagine tons of CO shooters will jump at a chance for another bite at the apple. 

 

I expect all iron sight divisions to be in worse shape this year vs last. 

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2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

I was also curious if the 16 round gun shooting the dreaded  possible 8/8/8/8 arrays happened...

The false hope?  Will still take 2 reloads with 15 round mags and 1 up the pipe at start for a 32 round cof.  

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39 minutes ago, mreed911 said:

I might look at Production here and there again, but other than stage planning I don't see 10 rounds to 15 rounds making a difference.

It doesn't, you'll (not you specifically) just fling more at stuff is my bet. 

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