Limited optics half a year later

[RJH]

Well, we're a touch over a half a year in The limited optics provisional division and I thought it'd be a good time to discuss it.

 

I still believe limited optics is basically the perfect division for today in USPSA. It has tons of upside and I can't really see any downsides. But I was an early believer and one of the guys who had a limited optics gun before limited optics was a thing. Very interesting to see the growth in limited optics in my area and how many people are shooting Sao guns and not just slapping a magwell on a carry-ops gun. Although I have seen a couple of people do the mag well on the carryops but, they're definitely in the minority 

 

So after 6 months, what do y'all think about limited optics? 

 

One caveat though, since the major minor thing has been hashed out about a million times in a million threads, let's skip that one for this thread and not get drug off in those weeds

 

 

[LDRIDER]

For me it could not have come around at a better time. I had just given in

to the fact that my eyesight would not allow me to continue with iron

sights. I dearly love shooting an older STI Edge and now with a SRO life is good

again. As for minor/major, well managed to download .40 to minor PF. How long

before the division is recognized.

[motosapiens]

it looks like it will be a very popular division for lazy people who like to spend money on fancy guns. 9mm 2011's seem to be much less finicky with feeding and magazine issues than 40.

 

Nonetheless, after shooting a free (but light) LO gun the last month or so, I got my old limited gat set up for LO and shot it yesterday (atlas titan 40 with dovetail dot mount and 140pf ammo). It was pretty darned fun to shoot. I like it quite a bit better than the 9mm I was shooting. Literally took me no time at all to adapt, but I have shot many tens of thousands of rounds through that gun with iron sights.

 

I think I am going to focus on LO this year since I still have 6-8k 40 bullets and I like the gun. My wife wants to shoot open nats, so I think I'll probably just load major and shoot it in open for a few weeks also. I'm sure I will do better (and spend a ton less $$) than if I buy another open gun and try to learn how to use it between now and then, lol.

Edited December 18, 2023 by motosapiens

[whan]

I think as a standalone division, it's great. USPSA divisions should take into account what's popular in the broader gun community (to a reasonable extent). Obviously 9mm 2011s have become very popular, but even outside of that you have lots of striker guns with magwells and a large variety of aftermarket parts bolted on. LO is the right place to allow any non-compensated 9mm gun to play IMO, instead of what's happened to CO.

 

I think eventually having LO provides the opportunity to narrow CO to be a less racy division and one more aligned with the original intent of being factory-type guns with minimal mods. Ideally no need to buy aftermarket basepads to be competitive (personally want 15 round cap), no thumb rests, no ultra heavy brass grips (45oz weight limit maybe). It should be one where you can just buy a glock 34, holosun, some mags, and a holster from a local gun store and go be competitive. 

 

Finally, I am lazy and do like to spend money on fancy guns. Love custom guns, and chose to shoot SS minor instead of production for my first 3 years of USPSA just so I could shoot a custom 1911 instead of a Tanfo or Shadow2. Don't reload, still shoot factory ammo as I really just want to buy gear that works and go shoot instead of having to tweak/tune stuff on my own.

 

Hoping to make M class in CO on my next classifier (84.3% now) but will jump to LO afterwards / once my gun from Venom arrives

Edited December 18, 2023 by whan

[MHicks]

I'm shooting LO with a CZ tac sport I already had. I bought it with a 40 upper for Limited but it came with a complete 9mm upper that I hadn't really used. Put an SRO on a dovetail mount and it's working well for me.

 

This is the first optic I've used and I'm starting to get more comfortable with it. It's a fun change from shooting SS and Limited and I did enjoy shooting major.

[RJH]

11 minutes ago, MHicks said:

I'm shooting LO with a CZ tac sport I already had. I bought it with a 40 upper for Limited but it came with a complete 9mm upper that I hadn't really used. Put an SRO on a dovetail mount and it's working well for me.

 

This is the first optic I've used and I'm starting to get more comfortable with it. It's a fun change from shooting SS and Limited and I did enjoy shooting major.

 

Same for me on the just getting used to the optic. I had dabbled in carry-ops and never really liked it and had stuck with limited and single stack as well. Then I started tinkering with limited optics and I'm really enjoying the optic now that I've used it more. Also when I was  shooting carry optics and such in the past I was using a smaller optic but, when I started in limited optics I bit the bullet and bought an SRO and I think that makes a huge difference on its own. 

[Dr Mitch]

It’s very cool, but still think it should have been rolled into Carry Optics.  Super fun.  Getting used to dot is a learning curve.

 

Probably going to set up a carry gun the same as match gun, but without magwell.  Match gun is a Prodigy 4.5” that I bought the day after they came out last year since it was close to my birthday, as all the 5” guns were sold out the first day.

[MHicks]

1 hour ago, RJH said:

 

Same for me on the just getting used to the optic. I had dabbled in carry-ops and never really liked it and had stuck with limited and single stack as well. Then I started tinkering with limited optics and I'm really enjoying the optic now that I've used it more. Also when I was  shooting carry optics and such in the past I was using a smaller optic but, when I started in limited optics I bit the bullet and bought an SRO and I think that makes a huge difference on its own. 

 

Yesterday a stage had an opening between walls with a barrel stack in the middle that made you move a bit to see all the targets. Best 3 per target. Then you moved left and right to the ends to shoot the remaining targets.  I was able to transition between targets faster then I ever have before while using an optic. Felt like a good step forward.

[deerslayer]

Around here, LO participation has been meh.  Several people are slapping a magwell on their CO gun and sandbagging in LO.  Everywhere else I have been, LO seems to be a viable separate division.  I have a Prodigy with a bunch of EGW parts that I plan to use in LO in 2024.  I also put a dovetail mount on my .40 Edge, but haven’t yet figured out a minor load with consistent velocity.  
 

I hope LO becomes a stand alone division and CO changes to a lower weight limit or 15 rounds or something to differentiate it from LO.

[davsco]

i'm going to stick with my open gun (2011 and frame mounted optic and comp), just a little funner.  but i can def see the allure of LO and in fact some of the local multigun (non uspsa) matches have divisions for co/lo guns without being put in Open so there is some crossover.

[Racinready300ex]

I hate it....it makes it to hard to decide what to shoot. IF LO didn't exist, next year I'd shoot my Canik in CO. But, now I can shoot that same canik in CO or add a magwell and shoot LO. Or I can bust out one of my 2011's which I shoot just a tiny bit better anyway and shoot LO.

 

The struggle is real. 

[motosapiens]

4 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

I hate it....it makes it to hard to decide what to shoot. IF LO didn't exist, next year I'd shoot my Canik in CO. But, now I can shoot that same canik in CO or add a magwell and shoot LO. Or I can bust out one of my 2011's which I shoot just a tiny bit better anyway and shoot LO.

 

The struggle is real. 

haha, i was having that same struggle until I shot my limited gun in a match with a dovetail optic plate. Most fun (and best shooting) I've done in a while. I am now committed to LO for 2024.

[zzt]

LO started out slowly in my area.  Later this season it started to pick up.  Surprisingly, some "I'll never leave Limited" shooters have switched to LO.

 

I've been shooting an LO gun for years.  When my eyes said no more irons, I put a dovetail mounted dot on my CZ TS and shot it for SCSA Open.  140 PF and it ran like a top.  I have plenty of 40 brass on hand and about 2000+ 40sw bullets.  I'll load them up over the Winter and dabble with LO in fun shoots.  Maybe dabble in SCSA if LO becomes a thing.  Don't know though.  I already have trouble deciding what two guns I'm going to shoot now.

 

When I exhaust my very large supply of 9mm major components, I may decide to convert one of the Open guns to LO.  That would be easy.  Reloading has become such a boring chore it would be great to only shoot factory 9mm and be done with it.  I've already fitted a non-comp'd barrel.

[shred]

The biggest danger for LO is turning into another $5K+ custom gun division.

 

Yeah, Nils could win it with a stock Canik, but he won Limited with one too.

 

It is not as popular as CO, around here but getting close.

[Racinready300ex]

21 minutes ago, shred said:

The biggest danger for LO is turning into another $5K+ custom gun division.

 

Yeah, Nils could win it with a stock Canik, but he won Limited with one too.

 

It is not as popular as CO, around here but getting close.

 

The plus is now with the prodigy at 1.2-1.4k and the Girsan at 1k, and I hear Tisas might make one. The Apollo 11 is just under 1k. Then there are a few more better options in the 2k range. This really isn't much more than shooting a Shadow 2 in CO.

 

It gets someone in the game with a gun they can build up the way they want. People will line up to spend 1k in upgrades to a 1,200 dollar gun faster then they will to buy a 2,200 dollar gun for some reason. 

 

But I agree, i hope it doesn't get the reputation of being like open and needing $$$ to play. 

[RJH]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

The plus is now with the prodigy at 1.2-1.4k and the Girsan at 1k, and I hear Tisas might make one. The Apollo 11 is just under 1k. Then there are a few more better options in the 2k range. This really isn't much more than shooting a Shadow 2 in CO.

 

It gets someone in the game with a gun they can build up the way they want. People will line up to spend 1k in upgrades to a 1,200 dollar gun faster then they will to buy a 2,200 dollar gun for some reason. 

 

But I agree, i hope it doesn't get the reputation of being like open and needing $$$ to play. 

 

 

At a local match the other day I won limited optics with a basically stock prodigy. It has a trigger job on the factory components, a MAG well, and a tlr1. I know I beat three people shooting local custom 2011s, another guy shooting an alchemy custom 2011, there were a few other guys shooting limited optics but I'm not sure what their guns were. And I got beat in the overalls by guy shooting carryops lol. It was almost like the guns didn't matter near as much as who was pulling the trigger. 

 

I believe limited optics is a lot like  single stack. No gun regardless of price is going to outshine any other like gun. It will come down to the shooter. In other words if you're shooting a "cheap" 2011 and another guy shooting an expensive 2011 and he beat you, it probably wasn't because he was using an expensive blaster

 

I think that's one of the nicest parts of limited optics now that y'all mention it

[motosapiens]

3 hours ago, shred said:

The biggest danger for LO is turning into another $5K+ custom gun division.

 

Yeah, Nils could win it with a stock Canik, but he won Limited with one too.

it is actually inescapable. Every division that allows 2011's immediately becomes a $5k+ custom gun division. That's why its important to not let 2011's into CO.

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

The plus is now with the prodigy at 1.2-1.4k and the Girsan at 1k, and I hear Tisas might make one. The Apollo 11 is just under 1k. Then there are a few more better options in the 2k range. 

Yep, and just like Limited, 11 or 12 people will shoot those cheap guns for a year or two, and then they also will buy $5000+ custom guns.

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, RJH said:

 

 

At a local match the other day I won limited optics with a basically stock prodigy. It has a trigger job on the factory components, a MAG well, and a tlr1. I know I beat three people shooting local custom 2011s, another guy shooting an alchemy custom 2011, there were a few other guys shooting limited optics but I'm not sure what their guns were. 

And all of those guys will react to getting beat by spending more money on their guns..... lol....

[konkapot]

I've noticed the 2011/1911 houses coming out with LO specific guns. The prices, in my opinion, are silly. 

 

Not a conspiracy theorist, but I've heard/read that the impetus for LO was the rejuvenation of the 2011 gunsmith community. 

[deerslayer]

3 minutes ago, konkapot said:

Not a conspiracy theorist, but I've heard/read that the impetus for LO was the rejuvenation of the 2011 gunsmith community. 

I wouldn’t be surprised.  The funny part is a $5000 2011 is completely unnecessary to be competitive in LO or Limited.  

[truespode]

I was happy in CO but do have an MPA LOC on order but only because of my experience with them. 

 

I wanted to upgrade and was looking at CZ's mostly but decided on an MPA. I have met and shot with a few of their shooters and they are good people. 

 

I know the gun won't improve my results but I also feel good about spending money with them knowing the people and the way they have sponsored a lot of things in my area.

[RJH]

7 minutes ago, konkapot said:

I've noticed the 2011/1911 houses coming out with LO specific guns. The prices, in my opinion, are silly. 

 

Not a conspiracy theorist, but I've heard/read that the impetus for LO was the rejuvenation of the 2011 gunsmith community. 

 

If so, that's good for America and the economy.

 

But, I think it has way more to do with the commercial availability of Sao guns in minor calibers and the membership wanting to shoot them. Being a boon for custom builders is just an added bonus

 

 

[motosapiens]

5 minutes ago, deerslayer said:

I wouldn’t be surprised.  The funny part is a $5000 2011 is completely unnecessary to be competitive in LO or Limited.  

it's unnecessary in any division, but better guns definitely shoot better, and better costs money. You may feel that you're not giving up enough performance to make a difference to *you* by shooting a cheaper gun, but you are definitely giving up some performance.  And most people would rather not leave any stone unturned when it comes to seeking performance through spending money. OTOH, spending time, on practicing or dry-firing..... ain't nobody got time for that, lolz.

[deerslayer]

2 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

it's unnecessary in any division, but better guns definitely shoot better, and better costs money. You may feel that you're not giving up enough performance to make a difference to *you* by shooting a cheaper gun, but you are definitely giving up some performance.  And most people would rather not leave any stone unturned when it comes to seeking performance through spending money. OTOH, spending time, on practicing or dry-firing..... ain't nobody got time for that, lolz.

I’m not convinced they all shoot better, but I’ll get it figured out if you loan me a quick $5k.  But hey, I’m the guy who made Master with a G24.  

Edited December 19, 2023 by deerslayer