Attainable PCC For New Competitor

[kerneldrop]

Other than JP or MPX, what's an attainable "can't go wrong" out-of-the-box PCC option for a new competitor that will solely shoot local small-time matches and be ok with not dominating. 

I saw the CZ, CMMG Resolute, Banshee, Springfield Saint, Lead Star Arms Barrage, Foxtrot Mike, etc...

I have the tools to assemble an AR9 if that's the recommended route.  I was hesitant in putting one together because I don't have time to try different parts until it's reliable.

 

Thank you 

 

 

 

 

[42ATK]

Brekke Customs build is pretty great

[kerneldrop]

Thank you. Coincidently, I see there is one in stock. 

I should have specified cheaper than an MPX PCC, too. 

 

 

[jrdoran]

Ruger pc carbine 

 

taccom and tandemkross upgrades galore as needed 

 

 

[bigdawgbeav]

depending on budget....  I started with the Ruger PC Carbine, upgraded it with Tandemkross chassis and parts.  This is now my dedicated PCCI for Steel Challenge.  If this is for USPSA then I highly recommend upgrading the mag release. This rifle has been 100% for me and eaten everything I've thrown at it.

 

For PCCO I run a PSA AR-V that I built light-weight.  It uses the CZ Scorpion double-stacked mags and Has been very reliable for me.

[Maximis228]

I built 2 brekke PPCs using their barrels/comps and buying the parts myself for around $1500 all in for each. Easy adult Lego build if you want to go that route. (ETA this was 2-3 years ago for pricing). 

Edited December 12, 2023 by Maximis228

[GrumpyOne]

Out of the box, a CZ scorpion Evo3 will work, at around $1k. Change the trigger spring to get a lighter trigger, delete one side of the safety, and Bob's your uncle. And, mags are very cheap and reliable.

[kerneldrop]

1 hour ago, GrumpyOne said:

Out of the box, a CZ scorpion Evo3 will work, at around $1k. Change the trigger spring to get a lighter trigger, delete one side of the safety, and Bob's your uncle. And, mags are very cheap and reliable.

 

Will the recoil on the CZ Scorpion be similar to the JP GMR-15 ?  I read they are both blowback....so I wasn't sure if they are comparable.  I can make those changes you recommended.  I watched the MCARBO tutorial. 

[kerneldrop]

@jrdoran and @bigdawgbeav - Thank you. It's nice to know I don't need a JP-5 to play the game. lol.  

 

@Maximis228 - I'd have fun building one, especially when I have everything to do it...but it looks like quite a bit of the popular options are out of stock.  What's required to dampen the recoil when you build 'em yourself? I'm assuming we can't replicate the JP-5 or MPX recoil. 

 

 

Edited December 12, 2023 by kerneldrop

[bladewurk]

My vote is for a Foxtrot Mike Glock based carbine but buy the rear charger that uses standard charging handles and has the brake.

put in a Kynshot buffer and upgrade trigger if you get some $.

also Sportsmans.com has Odin Superlight barrels for $51 on clearance you can swap in or roll your own upper 

[bladewurk]

Oh the rear charger carbine is $652 at Buds with free shipping..so about the same price as a Ruger

[kerneldrop]

51 minutes ago, bladewurk said:

My vote is for a Foxtrot Mike Glock based carbine but buy the rear charger that uses standard charging handles and has the brake.

put in a Kynshot buffer and upgrade trigger if you get some $.

also Sportsmans.com has Odin Superlight barrels for $51 on clearance you can swap in or roll your own upper 

 

Thank you. I guess my dilemma is that I can buy quality, even a JP-5, but just because I can doesn't mean I should. If I can get something that's a fun experience for $1k or around there....then why spend the $3,400 on the JP-5. I'm older and my peak shooting years are behind me.  Really though, is where the JP-5 is appealing is for when my young kids shoot with me. I keep looking at the MPX PCC for the soft recoil thinking they would enjoy it.    

[tt350z]

Take a look at the MEAN Arms bearing delayed upper. It’s $1500 but, 90-95% as soft as the MPX with the default lifter. Works on 5.56 AR lowers with 0 modifications.

 

I picked one up recently and it’s been a blast.

[kerneldrop]

I found the Aero Precision EPC-9 receiver set in stock....so of course now I'm looking into that rabbit hole. 

[bladewurk]

40 minutes ago, kerneldrop said:

 

Thank you. I guess my dilemma is that I can buy quality, even a JP-5, but just because I can doesn't mean I should. If I can get something that's a fun experience for $1k or around there....then why spend the $3,400 on the JP-5. I'm older and my peak shooting years are behind me.  Really though, is where the JP-5 is appealing is for when my young kids shoot with me. I keep looking at the MPX PCC for the soft recoil thinking they would enjoy it.    

Oh okay I thought you wanted something inexpensive that could be upgraded later.

MPX is awesome, Taran was using one last time I saw him.

I haven’t been going to matches for a while, maybe things have changed??

I thought he’s building Foxtrot Mikes tricked with hydraulic buffer and better trigger etc.. TR-9?

[bladewurk]

1 minute ago, kerneldrop said:

I found the Aero Precision EPC-9 receiver set in stock....so of course now I'm looking into that rabbit hole. 

The Foxtrot has best Mag position for feeding of any aluminum AR9 Glock lower in my limited experience 

[bladewurk]

https://tarantacticalinnovations.com/tti-tr-9/

[Maximis228]

14 hours ago, kerneldrop said:

@Maximis228 - I'd have fun building one, especially when I have everything to do it...but it looks like quite a bit of the popular options are out of stock.  What's required to dampen the recoil when you build 'em yourself? I'm assuming we can't replicate the JP-5 or MPX recoil. 

 

 

MBX sells a recoil kit that they use in their builds. the JP5 system is unique to that specific gun. There are some roller delay systems out there but IDK anyone personally who has tried one yet. 

 

Brekke uses the short stroke buffer system with a 308 flatwire spring. They have all the parts listed on their website and you could try to buy them elsewhere. 

[Texaspaul]

Go read blowback9 information -it is a wealth of information on what works! I have built a dozen 9mm and wished I had read his info before I started.  Now it just trying all the different accessories companies come out with to find the holy grail  - LOL I am about to try his gentle recoil system which is supposed to lower recoil. We will see! 

 

It is too much fun tinkering with these!

Edited December 13, 2023 by Texaspaul

[GrumpyOne]

18 hours ago, kerneldrop said:

 

Will the recoil on the CZ Scorpion be similar to the JP GMR-15 ?  I read they are both blowback....so I wasn't sure if they are comparable.  I can make those changes you recommended.  I watched the MCARBO tutorial. 

The recoil is minimal, with the correct ammo. Put it this way, and I don't recommend doing this, but I like to see how dirty a gun can get and still run. I have about 3k rounds of my 134PF ammo through my Scorpion...and I have never cleaned it...and have had absolutley ZERO malfunctions. None. Zip. Nothing. It just runs and runs. And, is accurate as any out there. This is a pic of the test target at 25 yards, after sighting in, using a 15 year old BSA $30 red dot and my minor PF production ammo...off hand, no rest.

[old558]

Maybe check for a used JP GMR, great guns that just run.

[zzt]

On 12/12/2023 at 6:55 PM, kerneldrop said:

What's required to dampen the recoil when you build 'em yourself? I'm assuming we can't replicate the JP-5 or MPX recoil. 

 

Maxim Defense roller delayed buffer.  It will get you very close to JP-5 level recoil with typical loads.  Very little recoil with light steel challenge loads.  I use it in a 5 lb. PCC with 100 and 132 PF loads.

[ColoradoNick]

You can build a clone TR9 for pretty cheap.

 

i just put one together-

Aero receivers, kynshot buffer with 2.5oz weight, tubbs flat wire spring, JP bolt, barrel, comp, trigger of your choice. It runs flawless. Just realize the JP barrel doesn’t like flat nosed bullets. 

[copterdrvr]

I’ve built 308, 6.5 CM, 300BO, 224 Valkyrie, 223/556 and 9mm in the AR format and I installed KYNSHOT hydraulic buffers in ALL of them.  The other important mod is the trigger.  I do use Geissele triggers in my precision AR’s and CMC triggers in my duty type AR’s.

 

Ive helped friends take very inexpensive AR 9’s and turn them into reliable and enjoyable to shoot platforms and it doesn’t break the bank.  The two things you’ll find in a “cheap” AR9 is a one piece, solid buffer and too strong a recoil spring and a milspec AR trigger.  Replacing the buffer with a KYNSHOT hydraulic 9mm buffer and a Wilson Combat flatwire AR15 carbine spring and replacing the milspec trigger with a CMC AR9 trigger which comes to less than 300 bucks total and turns a 400 dollar gun into a very enjoyable shooter.  The difference in recoil is dramatic and a milspec AR trigger in a 9mm AR is usually horrible.  It’s not just trigger pull because I’ve fired some “stock” AR9’s with milspec triggers that had such a severe case of trigger slap that I was done after twenty rounds…. A 3.5 lb trigger beats an 8lb trigger any day.

 

 last friend that I did this for said “where’s My 9” after he fired it.

 

 

[kerneldrop]

Thank you everyone, for your replies.

I wanted to circle back around.  

I ended up buying an Aero EPC-9 set from B. King's Firearms. 

 

Now to order everything else to complete it.