Gun handling rules steel challenge

[cheech]

I have a new Smith & Wesson 9mm fpc folding stock carbine. Are there any new rules concerning this gun? I shot in a match today and the RO was concerned with the way I unfolded the gun. It is a 180 degree side fold and he said I would be "spraying the barrel". Which is true. However, the gun is made so you cannot have a round in the breech and be able to fold or unfold it. He also wanted me to have a flag. When the gun is folded the breech is fully exposed. The flag would fall out while handling.

[Nathanb]

Why are you folding it after every stage?

[Sarge]

Sounds like you were breaking rules. Chamber flags are required. Sweeping is DQ even if it's folded. Just leave it unfolded all day with a flag in it like everybody else

[cheech]

It has to be folded to fit in the bag. The bag was well designed with pockets to hold everything I need including ammo and a uplulu. It has velcro straps to hold the gun.

[DavidSeavey]

just pick up a cheap carbine rifle bag and swap it unfolded at a safe table for the duration to the match. no question of issue unless you unfold it backwards (normal?) at safe table.

[Matt1911]

Unfortunately that cool case isn’t going to fly at matches. 
As has been said, get a cheap carbine bag and leave it unfolded with a chamber flag. 

[shred]

I've only fooled with one for a customer, but IIRC you can set the bag up so only one end is open on the zippers.  I think if you then shove the un-folded carbine barrel-first in there it would provide enough coverage to be portable within the rules, but you'll want to check to be sure first.

 

I don't think anybody is going to be happy with 'folded = unloaded' with that one as the chamber seems to be fully exposed to drop a round right into if you wanted,

 

 

 

[Joe4d]

Why not just keep the barrel down range ? fold the stock forward put it in the bag ? pull it out same way, barrel down range  unfold stock back,,,, what am I missing ?

 

[Hoops]

18 hours ago, Joe4d said:

Why not just keep the barrel down range ? fold the stock forward put it in the bag ? pull it out same way, barrel down range  unfold stock back,,,, what am I missing ?

 

I’ve RO’d numerous types of guns.  My approach is simple.  At the make ready command, the muzzle will be pointed down range; pistol or carbine.  If up range, DQ.  If the carbine doesn’t have a flag, I’ll caution the shooter and make sure it is flagged after the hammer down and flag command.  If it comes out unflagged on another stage, DQ.

 

If a shooter can’t control the muzzle while unfolding the stock then get a case or cart to remove the risk of DQ.

 

Keep it simple….and safe…and have fun.  It’s really not that complicated.

[cheech]

Instead of dry firing, I've been practicing unfolding and folding keeping the barrel pointed down range and use of a flag. I am glad to see you agree with my approach.

[Hoops]

No RO wants to DQ a shooter.  All good RO’s put safety first, combined with gun handling rules.  You meet that, you’re fine.  It’s not my place to tell a shooter what gear to have….as long as it is safe and meets the rules.

 

For me personally, I prefer a folding stock carbine to be unfolded inside a case or secured in a cart…flagged.  It just removes all the other safety issues.  A cheap and easy thing to consider.
 

[Joe4d]

I dont get how it can be so hard to grab the barrel about midway up the handguard, then grab the stock from somewhere below the end of the barrel and pull the stock back to the locked position,,,
But as Hoops stated,,, that isnt the RO's problem.. Its the shooters problem to figure it out, Break the 180 with the muzzle, or sweep yourself,, and its a DQ.

 

[bigdawgbeav]

8.1.6 - When casing or uncasing any firearm at the firing position, the muzzle of the firearm must always be pointed downrange.

 

8.3.8.4 - Pistol Caliber Carbine – show clear, close the bolt, pull the trigger, insert flag, case.  The bolt must be closed on a chamber flag.

 

10.3.2 - Pointing a firearm up range (breaking the 180-degree line).

 

10.3.6 - Sweeping or pointing the muzzle of a firearm at any part of any person’s body during the course of fire. If the firearm is in a case and not in the competitor’s hands, sweeping does not apply.  Reaching forward of the muzzle of a cased firearm to close the case is not a sweeping infraction, provided the competitor’s hands are completely clear of the firearm itself. 

 

D8 13 - Rifle to be transported in a closed case, scabbard, or “3-gun” cart. Chamber flags must be used regardless of method of transport. 

 

I have competed with a few folks that have "folding carbines".  While I can't tell you what to do, I HIGHLY advise to unfold it at a safe table and transfer to another case.  Better yet, unfold it at home and transfer to another case before leaving.  My opinion is there is no reason to keep folding and unfolding during the course of fire.  

 

 

[Dr. Phil]

16 minutes ago, bigdawgbeav said:

8.1.6 - When casing or uncasing any firearm at the firing position, the muzzle of the firearm must always be pointed downrange.

 

8.3.8.4 - Pistol Caliber Carbine – show clear, close the bolt, pull the trigger, insert flag, case.  The bolt must be closed on a chamber flag.

 

10.3.2 - Pointing a firearm up range (breaking the 180-degree line).

 

10.3.6 - Sweeping or pointing the muzzle of a firearm at any part of any person’s body during the course of fire. If the firearm is in a case and not in the competitor’s hands, sweeping does not apply.  Reaching forward of the muzzle of a cased firearm to close the case is not a sweeping infraction, provided the competitor’s hands are completely clear of the firearm itself. 

 

D8 13 - Rifle to be transported in a closed case, scabbard, or “3-gun” cart. Chamber flags must be used regardless of method of transport. 

 

I have competed with a few folks that have "folding carbines".  While I can't tell you what to do, I HIGHLY advise to unfold it at a safe table and transfer to another case.  Better yet, unfold it at home and transfer to another case before leaving.  My opinion is there is no reason to keep folding and unfolding during the course of fire.  

 

 

This!

Exactly right.

[dlidster]

Smith & Wesson provides a really neat case for the M&P FPS. But I've found the folks at all my local matches aren't happy with it for the reasons being discussed. I bought a NCSTAR 32" case to keep the FPS in an acceptable configuration at matches. The case has a really decent zipper and good handles. I paid $25 or $30 for mine from Amazon. Right now I see you can get one for $29 including shipping on eBay.

 

https://www.amazon.com/dp/B00399H4DA?psc=1&ref=ppx_yo2ov_dt_b_product_details

[cheech]

Thanks to all who replied. I broke down and bought a bag so I can carry it unfolded!

[WildPete]

On 11/30/2023 at 4:09 PM, cheech said:

Thanks to all who replied. I broke down and bought a bag so I can carry it unfolded!