Anyone else do this? Lee Factory Crimp die.

[ReconNav]

I'm new to reloading.  I'm using a Hornady lock-n-load AP, with a U-die, Photo Escape PTX, Lee seating die, and Lee Factory Crimp die.

 

I use a Hundo case gauge, and so far I have about a 3% failure rate.  Out of curiosity I ran all the cases that failed the case gauge through the Factory Crimp Die again, and then all but one passed.

 

I set those rounds aside, and used them first, at my next trip to the range, and all cycled fine.

 

Anyone else do this, and is there any reason this would be a bad idea?  I can't see how it would be a problem, but maybe I'm missing something. 

[HesedTech]

5 minutes ago, ReconNav said:

Anyone else do this, and is there any reason this would be a bad idea?  I can't see how it would be a problem, but maybe I'm missing something. 

A lot of threads about the Lee FCD. Do a search. Personally I tried it early in my reloading and didn’t like it.  If you process is good it’s really not needed. But if it works for you go to it. 

[ReconNav]

6 minutes ago, HesedTech said:

A lot of threads about the Lee FCD. Do a search. Personally I tried it early in my reloading and didn’t like it.  If you process is good it’s really not needed. But if it works for you go to it. 

Maybe I wasn't clear, and yes I searched/read about the Lee FCD, before deciding to use it.  I'm asking if anyone else runs cartridges that fail the gauge, back through the FCD again?

[Farmer]

First off what are you loading? Std sizes like .355, .400, .451 ect or are they .001 larger? Mixed brass? When you run them back through do they drag a little bit when they first enter the die? Are you applying enough crimp but not too much, as in just enough to press the case against the bullet. 

[ddc]

1 hour ago, ReconNav said:

I'm new to reloading.  I'm using a Hornady lock-n-load AP, with a U-die, Photo Escape PTX, Lee seating die, and Lee Factory Crimp die.

 

I use a Hundo case gauge, and so far I have about a 3% failure rate.  Out of curiosity I ran all the cases that failed the case gauge through the Factory Crimp Die again, and then all but one passed.

 

I set those rounds aside, and used them first, at my next trip to the range, and all cycled fine.

 

Anyone else do this, and is there any reason this would be a bad idea?  I can't see how it would be a problem, but maybe I'm missing something. 

 

What do you consider a failed round? Is it anything that isn't 100% flush or do you allow a small fudge factor?

 

Just because the cartridge may be a little proud of the gauge does not mean you necessarily have a failed round.

[HesedTech]

1 hour ago, ReconNav said:

I'm asking if anyone else runs cartridges that fail the gauge, back through the FCD again?

I’m sorry I misunderstood what you were asking. Yes I did the same thing early in my reloading life. These days failed rounds are few and they go in the failed bin. Questionable rounds, again few and far between, are marked and shot in practice. Don’t use the FCD for anything, it’s somewhere in a bin. 

[ReconNav]

1 hour ago, Farmer said:

First off what are you loading? Std sizes like .355, .400, .451 ect or are they .001 larger? Mixed brass? When you run them back through do they drag a little bit when they first enter the die? Are you applying enough crimp but not too much, as in just enough to press the case against the bullet. 

I'm loading 9mm, mixed brass, but mostly (90%+) Hornady nickel plated, and Federal brass, with a Blue Bullet 135gr TC bullet.  Flare is set at .384, and the case is then crimped to .376.  That leaves a very slight impression in the coating, if I pull the bullet.

I don't feel.any resistance on the ones I sent back through, but all but one, then passed the gauge, after the second pass.

 

 

[ReconNav]

4 minutes ago, ddc said:

 

What do you consider a failed round? Is it anything that isn't 100% flush or do you allow a small fudge factor?

 

Just because the cartridge may be a little proud of the gauge does not mean you necessarily have a failed round.

If it doesn't drop flush, I consider that a failed round.

[HesedTech]

54 minutes ago, ReconNav said:

if I pull the bullet.

I don't feel.any resistance on the ones I sent back through, but all but one, then passed the gauge, after the second pass.

And you have found out why not to use the FCD on coated bullets. You just resized the bullet and effected the speed and accuracy. I have even seen them fall out after using the FCD. 
 

Work on bullet alignment as you seat them. CBC brass will be more likely to bulge if seated deeply (147 grain RN the worst). The Hornady and the Redding seating dies have a collar which helps straighten the bullet as it is seated. 

[Joe4d]

I had same issue with 40,, and precision moly 180 coated.. Lee seat crimp,, backed out to just barely remove bell when seating then Lee FCD.. loaded a gazillion rounds withut issue.
Decided I just had to have an upgrade and bought Dillon dies and even with the FCD at last station was getting failure to chambers. FInally threw the DIllon seat die in the swamp stuck the Lee seater back in and the problem went away.. Never figured out Why the problem was the seat die but it was.

[stick]

Been using the FCD in my XL650 for years without issue.  I've never had a problem with it at all.  

[mmc45414]

I have the Armanov gauge and everything that passes gets a Sharpie stripe.  With range brass there are always about 3-8/1000 that do not.  I keep a FCD setup for the single stage press and run the failed rounds through it.  Some you feel nothing, some you are obviously swaging something.  They all get shot up for plinking, and none of them have ever not had any problems.

[shred]

I just used a FCD in the last station and drove on although I shoot mostly jacketed bullets.  Hundreds of thousands of them.  Did pretty well in a more than a few majors.  I think FCDs get more than their share of both praise and criticism, Worrying about 'excessive crimp' gets way too much attention.

 

 

 

[HesedTech]

A question for those of you who use the FCD on 9mm (tapered cartridges).

 

Why would you think there is a need to resize the cartridges after you have loaded them? The base ring resizes the cartridge as it goes down. If you are having that many problems where you must resize after seating the bullet then something in the process needs to be fixed. 
 

This isn’t a matter of “I’ve been using the die for years…” type of thing. Wouldn’t you want to find out why you need the FCD?
 

Not trying to troll or start a firestorm, just wondering why you need the FCD? 
 

There is a use for the FCD in removing the “Glock bulges “ some guns create in the pre-loading phase. https://leeprecision.com/bulge-buster-kit

[ddc]

14 hours ago, ReconNav said:

If it doesn't drop flush, I consider that a failed round.

 

It is possible that you are failing rounds that don't need to be failed.

 

After a while you develop a feel for how proud a round can be before it starts failing the plunk test.

 

For my P320's I have probably 3 or 4 percent that are not flush but they plunk just fine and shoot just fine.

 

Having said that when selecting rounds for a match I want them all to be flush or just a hair high.

The rest go into the practice only bin. They are not "failed"; but they are not "prime time" either.

 

 

[shred]

On 7/3/2023 at 10:31 AM, HesedTech said:

Not trying to troll or start a firestorm, just wondering why you need the FCD? 

 

TLDR: Don't "need" it, but more ammo passes the gauge with than without and for me there's no real downside.  YMMV.

 

Most of the things it "fixes" are bullets that are a bit out of shape and/or seated slightly wonky which get ironed out.  Anyone doing gauge-then-FCD-after-gauging should test for themselves to see how it works out for them by comparing groups from both sets of ammo.  I don't see a significant accuracy loss but I shoot USPSA and IPSC where 6 MOA accuracy is more than enough, although that would horrify a 2700 shooter.

 

9mm brass has been made for more than 100 years and more than 100 places and it's all over the place size-wise.  Some brass springs back more than others and I like using a Dillon sizing die in the first station.  Feels like the extra few thou smaller helps when cramming mags all the way full; although you can do that with a rollsizer too.

 

As for gauging, most of the gauges I manufacture are cut on the small side of SAAMI chamber specs so it's quite likely rounds that don't fit fully will plunk properly in many chambers since barrel manufacturers tend to use max-size reamers and replace them before they wear down anywhere close to minimum.

 

[MuayThaiJJ]

I had feeding issues on all my reloads until I got a Lee FCD. Even in 38SPL I had some issues with tight chambers (Dan Wesson revolvers). I have a FCD in 9mm, 38SPL, and 45ACP. Helps greatly

[Joe4d]

Cant speak for everyone but used to be most pistol sets didnt come with a crimp die.. They had a combo seat crimp.. Switching from a  single to a turret or progressive press things go alot better with a separate seat and crimp die.. Lee FCD was as good as any...  Cant hurt might help..
WHen   I thought I might get back into the sport and shoot CO these new coated bullets were out and there was much wringing of hands and gnashing of teeth over using them in the FCD. Sooooo like a good trend follower I bought a 9mm taper crimp die...  I think its in my 9mm 550 tool head,,, but about that same time I noticed 9mm wasnt worth my time or waste of components to reload,, so dont think I actually ever used it.. 

[Farmer]

The OP states that he is using Hornady and Fed brass. Hornady is deep brass (very little taper inside) so is good for 147’s or heavier. But it can be thinner than Fed and the others so this would give a little different crimp setting. This may be where the higher rounds are coming from and also may be a shorter case in there too. The difference are small on the crimping, think of it as turning the die from 6 o’clock to 7 o’clock. In other words if they fit your gun shoot ‘em!

[ReconNav]

On 7/2/2023 at 10:28 PM, HesedTech said:

And you have found out why not to use the FCD on coated bullets. You just resized the bullet and effected the speed and accuracy. I have even seen them fall out after using the FCD. 

Sorry, but I don't understand this statement.  If the bullet is .355" in diameter, but the crimp is set to .378, how would that resize the bullet?

[Joe4d]

3 hours ago, ReconNav said:

Sorry, but I don't understand this statement.  If the bullet is .355" in diameter, but the crimp is set to .378, how would that resize the bullet?

coated tend to be 356 for a tighter seal on softer bullets.. Holdover from plain lead days. Upsize the bullet for a tighter seal to prevent flame cutting and leading,, the softer bullets would swage down in the barrel, no harm no foul. Jacket bullets  were harder surfaced didnt have exposed lead and would probably drive up pressure if made over sized.. ALthough.. I have loaded a buttload of .356 FMJ's in 9mm..  One of the big places cleared out 38 super bullets and I bought a bunch.

[xrayfk05]

3 hours ago, ReconNav said:

Sorry, but I don't understand this statement.  If the bullet is .355" in diameter, but the crimp is set to .378, how would that resize the bullet?

The sizing ring which sizes the entire case has a fixed diameter, what you set the crimp to has no relevance.
If brass thickness*2 + bullet diameter exceeds the diameter of the sizing ring the bullet gets swaged causing all sorts of accuracy problems.

Not so apparent on 9mm since it is a tapered round, but with .40S&W a coated bullet will be loose in the case after using the FCD. (Which you can "fix" applying setting a heavy crimp with said FCD)

 

In my opinion the FCD is a tool which you should only use if you know what you are doing and for general  reloading should not be  needed. 

[Tom Freeman]

On 7/2/2023 at 8:31 PM, ReconNav said:

If it doesn't drop flush, I consider that a failed round.

 

So it fails your gauge.  Does it go in your chamber?

[HesedTech]

6 hours ago, xrayfk05 said:

The sizing ring which sizes the entire case has a fixed diameter, what you set the crimp to has no relevance.
If brass thickness*2 + bullet diameter exceeds the diameter of the sizing ring the bullet gets swaged causing all sorts of accuracy problems.

Not so apparent on 9mm since it is a tapered round, but with .40S&W a coated bullet will be loose in the case after using the FCD. (Which you can "fix" applying setting a heavy crimp with said FCD)

 

In my opinion the FCD is a tool which you should only use if you know what you are doing and for general  reloading should not be  needed. 

Good post explaining what happens. I will add 9mm not only is tapered the brass thickness also tapers, gets thicker as it approaches base. Some, like CBC, gets thicker sooner and causes bulging with deep seated bullets.

[MikeyScuba]

Don't forget 9mm brass is all different thickness.  I load Blazer exclusively for a 9mm revolver.  Using presized brass with a a clutch of 1 on my Mark7 Blazer and FC will load fine but most others require a clutch of 4-5 (ie the press stops with a 1 setting) .  Meaning S&B and CBC are a LOT thicker.