Local match capacity survey

[Racinready300ex]

9 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

thankfully I never have that problem. No matter how full my local match is they have to let me in because I design and build one of the stages and often co-MD.

 

I'd imagine if I volunteer to help setup they'd squeeze me in. But, they setup on Friday while I'm at work and the club is 3 hours from where I work so it's not really a option for me. 

[Nathanb]

6 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I'd imagine if I volunteer to help setup they'd squeeze me in. But, they setup on Friday while I'm at work and the club is 3 hours from where I work so it's not really a option for me. 

This was always my rule.  If you helped me I made concessions for you. We’d set up on Saturday and then finalize and hang targets on Sunday.  You’d be amazed how many times someone who was waitlisted actually showed up to help me to get off the waitlist 

[Racinready300ex]

20 minutes ago, Nathanb said:

This was always my rule.  If you helped me I made concessions for you. We’d set up on Saturday and then finalize and hang targets on Sunday.  You’d be amazed how many times someone who was waitlisted actually showed up to help me to get off the waitlist 

 

 

If I lived close to a club that did setup on Saturday I'd help, even without a waitlist.

 

I'm kind of in a hole where I'm located. There are 2 clubs both 2 hours away that setup on Friday. There is a club 30 miles from me, but it take 4 hours to get there due to water lol. Next closest is 3 hours, not sure when they setup. I can get to a few places in 3-4 hours. 

 

 

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

I'd imagine if I volunteer to help setup they'd squeeze me in. But, they setup on Friday while I'm at work and the club is 3 hours from where I work so it's not really a option for me. 

That's a bummer that you are so far from the shooting. We have one club thats 50 minutes away and I rarely shoot there because it's so damn far, and my local club does a match the following day.

 

i will never understand how clubs can set up the day before without burning people out. I only live 10 minutes away, but I still wouldn't be able to show up the day before for very long before I got sick of it. I show up 45-60 mins before the advertised setup time to open up the front gate and the equipment sheds and get started on my stage. Shooters start wandering in about the advertised time to lend a hand, and 60 minutes later we are shooting. I guess we are a bit spoiled....

 

Although if we were at full capacity,  I might see who wanted to set up *and* shoot the match the day before, then let the regular match-day crew tear down.

Edited March 23, 2023 by motosapiens

[Boomstick303]

4 hours ago, ColoradoNick said:

I think consistency between clubs would help. What stipulates a cancellation as well as when they are posted.

 

With the hit or miss nature of matches being canceled due to weather this will happen as well.  This winter has been abnormally cold, so many more matches have been canceled than normal.  

 

Wind plays more of a defining factor of matches being canceled when its cold.  It seems like 35 degrees seems to be a cutoff if there is little to no wind in the forecast.  If there is wind then most will cancel at those temps.  Mind you, this is an observation and there is no data to support that theory.  

 

[zzt]

I'm 'staff' at one of the clubs I shoot at, so I always get in.  Staff signup is 3 days before general registration.  Yes, I do help setup and tear down.  My home USPSA club opens registration at 8 PM sharp.  It is full in 90 seconds.  We eat at 8:30, so at 8 I'm in the middle of cooking and can't always get to a computer at one minute to 8.  Since I'm a member and an RO, and I help with setup, I always get in.

 

This club used to shoot all Winter.  Caveat was the sghoot was cancelled if there was an ice storm or wind chill was 25 deg. or lower.  Pasters don't stick then.  My third club puts out roll of masking tape when it is cold.  That always sticks. 

[Fishbreath]

1 hour ago, motosapiens said:

i will never understand how clubs can set up the day before without burning people out.

 

We set up Thursday night for a Saturday match. I go straight from work, which is close to the range, and a lot of the other volunteers live nearby.

 

A fair number of them help because the pistol guys at the club go out to dinner on Thursday nights. On match weeks, we bump dinner back two hours or so for setup.

[Racinready300ex]

14 hours ago, motosapiens said:

That's a bummer that you are so far from the shooting. We have one club thats 50 minutes away and I rarely shoot there because it's so damn far, and my local club does a match the following day.

 

i will never understand how clubs can set up the day before without burning people out. I only live 10 minutes away, but I still wouldn't be able to show up the day before for very long before I got sick of it. I show up 45-60 mins before the advertised setup time to open up the front gate and the equipment sheds and get started on my stage. Shooters start wandering in about the advertised time to lend a hand, and 60 minutes later we are shooting. I guess we are a bit spoiled....

 

Although if we were at full capacity,  I might see who wanted to set up *and* shoot the match the day before, then let the regular match-day crew tear down.

 

There used to be a club closer that did setup morning of. It was about 45 min away. But ultimately the BOD of that club drove the MD's to the point of giving up. There is another club even closer I've been helping run some outlaw type matches. One of those guys is looking to run for president of the club and push for 4 pistol bays just to host either USPSA or IDPA matches. I might have to join that range just so I can vote lol. 

[Sarge]

2 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

There used to be a club closer that did setup morning off.

There is still one around here that does that I think. Used to go every month but the MD loved putting great stages on the ground. Many times we didn’t even start shooting until after 11 am. It’s just too much to try to set up day of. Made for very long days

[mikeAZ]

i'm lucky, Most of my shooting is done at Rio Salado Sportsman's Club, Mesa AZ., where every style of shooting competition is done from sub gun, black power, 22,223, 308 bench rest, Tuesday Night Steel (just under 200 shooter's per week), plus USPSA club's regular monthly match's, If your not quick on Practiscore you don't shoot.... AND many more types I'm fore getting.. In the Phoenix AZ. area, you can shoot in competition somewhere every night of the week, if you wish.. Plus add the Public Range that's open to all.  Mike 

[Racinready300ex]

1 hour ago, Sarge said:

There is still one around here that does that I think. Used to go every month but the MD loved putting great stages on the ground. Many times we didn’t even start shooting until after 11 am. It’s just too much to try to set up day of. Made for very long days

 

Yeah, they started out doing setup the day before but it was burning out the two guys doing it themselves. So it became setup the day of or match might go away. First few matches we got started late but it got better pretty quick. Sometimes you do get a pretty lame stage. I can remember some s#!tty ones setup by the PCC shooters. But, you have to pick your poison. 

 

Had the club itself been more welcoming, it'd probably be a pretty popular match now. 

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

There used to be a club closer that did setup morning of. It was about 45 min away. But ultimately the BOD of that club drove the MD's to the point of giving up. There is another club even closer I've been helping run some outlaw type matches. One of those guys is looking to run for president of the club and push for 4 pistol bays just to host either USPSA or IDPA matches. I might have to join that range just so I can vote lol. 

This is an important concept imho. Several years ago the fudds on our board made some noise about restricting uspsa shooting because a round ricocheted straight up and landed plinkety-plunk on the rifle line (obviously unable to hurt anyone). So all the uspsa shooters showed up to board elections and replaced most of the board. After that we were able to host area 1 and do quite a few improvements to the range that benefit everyone. Ever since we have had a large number of USPSA shooters on the board and good support for the sport.

[motosapiens]

57 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

Yeah, they started out doing setup the day before but it was burning out the two guys doing it themselves. So it became setup the day of or match might go away. First few matches we got started late but it got better pretty quick. Sometimes you do get a pretty lame stage. I can remember some s#!tty ones setup by the PCC shooters. But, you have to pick your poison. 

 

There's a lot to learn in stage design and setup, and most of us doing it have made a few mistakes. Nowadays we have some grownup supervision and tweaking on the ground if necessary to make sure stages are safe and legal. For us the key is to have a single individual in charge of each of the field courses. You can just give a diagram to someone for the classifier or speed shoot/short courses.

[motosapiens]

2 hours ago, Sarge said:

There is still one around here that does that I think. Used to go every month but the MD loved putting great stages on the ground. Many times we didn’t even start shooting until after 11 am. It’s just too much to try to set up day of. Made for very long days

someone is doing it wrong. In winter we officially start setup at 8:30 and are always shooting before 10.... usually by 9:30, and we typically finish and tear down by 1 or 1:30.  It doesn't take very long to put up a good stage, you just have to have enough qualified builder/designers for each pit so they're all going up simultaneously.

 

In general, the solution to almost every problem of this sort is to have more qualified people involved. many hands make light (and fast) work. we have at least 5-6 people that can serve as MD if someone is sick or out of town, and twice that number that regularly design and build stages. And of course almost everyone helps out with setup, even if it's only running to get 1 more barrel, or tacking down the fault lines and targets after everything is in position and proofed.

[llamasabound]

4 hours ago, motosapiens said:

someone is doing it wrong. In winter we officially start setup at 8:30 and are always shooting before 10.... usually by 9:30, and we typically finish and tear down by 1 or 1:30.  It doesn't take very long to put up a good stage, you just have to have enough qualified builder/designers for each pit so they're all going up simultaneously.

 

In general, the solution to almost every problem of this sort is to have more qualified people involved. many hands make light (and fast) work. we have at least 5-6 people that can serve as MD if someone is sick or out of town, and twice that number that regularly design and build stages. And of course almost everyone helps out with setup, even if it's only running to get 1 more barrel, or tacking down the fault lines and targets after everything is in position and proofed.

We typically put five stages on the ground in an hour, the morning of. If it’s slow going, for whatever reason, just means more helpers have time to arrive. Sometimes we get ambitious and lay out supplies the day before, but it’s seldom worth it. Two hours of a couple people arranging supplies can be replaced with ten minutes of experienced helpers accepting delegated tasks.  
 

We are restricted on first shots by soft agreement with the neighbors. Stages are almost always done enough to be walked 30 minutes before we can start anyhow. 
 

Just about every single person who shoots helps with setup, tear down, or both, so no comped fees for that.

[TaterHead]

You guys are very fortunate. In this neck of the woods the consumers far, far outweigh the contributors.

[Sarge]

29 minutes ago, TaterHead said:

You guys are very fortunate. In this neck of the woods the consumers far, far outweigh the contributors.

Your situation is normal. Our locals mostly all have 60-70 shooters and MAYBE 8 people show up to help setup on a regular basis. And half them(us) set up and RO both matches. Typically I help another MD set up his match and he helps me set up mine.

[motosapiens]

47 minutes ago, TaterHead said:

You guys are very fortunate. In this neck of the woods the consumers far, far outweigh the contributors.

That will happen anywhere those sort of people are enabled. We try not to enable them. I don't mind driving the lazy douches away, if that's what it takes. Maybe that's why our matches aren't selling out, lol.

 

 

[motosapiens]

21 minutes ago, Sarge said:

Your situation is normal. Our locals mostly all have 60-70 shooters and MAYBE 8 people show up to help setup on a regular basis. And half them(us) set up and RO both matches. Typically I help another MD set up his match and he helps me set up mine.

Here, everybody runs the tablets, most people RO, everyone sets up, everyone tears down. Otherwise people get burned out and annoyed.

 

Part of my new shooter brief each week is to let people know what our expectations are for setup, reset and scoring during the match, and teardown afterwards.

Edited March 24, 2023 by motosapiens

[RJH]

I'll run a tablet, if I have to I'll ro, I'll gladly tear down, but I pretty much don't set up

[motosapiens]

52 minutes ago, RJH said:

I'll run a tablet, if I have to I'll ro, I'll gladly tear down, but I pretty much don't set up

Tell me more.... Is that because you are old and lazy? Because you live far away? Because setup is at an inconvenient time? Because your back hurts? Because the entry fee is so high that you feel entitled?

 

We advertise setup start at 830, and we have 1 or 2 guys that roll in around 9:30-9:45, right about the time shooting starts. They are douches and everyone mocks them. One of these days I'm just going to tell them 'too bad, we already started. See you next month if you get here on time.'

Edited March 24, 2023 by motosapiens

[Joe4d]

8 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

Tell me more.... Is that because you are old and lazy? Because you live far away? Because setup is at an inconvenient time? Because your back hurts? Because the entry fee is so high that you feel entitled?

 

We advertise setup start at 830, and we have 1 or 2 guys that roll in around 9:30-9:45, right about the time shooting starts. They are douches and everyone mocks them. One of these days I'm just going to tell them 'too bad, we already started. See you next month if you get here on time.'

maybe he doesnt like having his time wasted..
Have seen quite a few matches like that. Show up early to help set up,, only for the MD to have a case of oneguyitis and hordes all info.. Or the one guy that has the key to the props is the guy thats always late. So you end up standing around  with no direction..
and those also tend to be the MD;s that start crying about not having any help..

[motosapiens]

12 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

maybe he doesnt like having his time wasted..
Have seen quite a few matches like that. Show up early to help set up,, only for the MD to have a case of oneguyitis and hordes all info.. Or the one guy that has the key to the props is the guy thats always late. So you end up standing around  with no direction..
and those also tend to be the MD;s that start crying about not having any help..

maybe… thats why i asked…

 

if you come to my match, i will try not to waste your time, and if there is a minute or two where you can’t start nailing things in yet, we can always socialize, talk about shooting, discuss the stage we are building and what the goals are, and what other options there might be. i have a good time during setup and i appreciate the folks who are there for their help, but also for their feedback.

[RJH]

15 minutes ago, motosapiens said:

Tell me more.... Is that because you are old and lazy? Because you live far away? Because setup is at an inconvenient time? Because your back hurts? Because the entry fee is so high that you feel entitled?

 

We advertise setup start at 830, and we have 1 or 2 guys that roll in around 9:30-9:45, right about the time shooting starts. They are douches and everyone mocks them. One of these days I'm just going to tell them 'too bad, we already started. See you next month if you get here on time.'

 

Meh, inconvenient time mainly. Some people help set up, some people help tear down, some tape, some run a tablet, some ro, some watch everyone else do all of it. 

 

I don't set up cause of inconvenient time. But last week I tore down a stage by myself and helped tear down 2 more out of 5. Would have helped on the 2 others, but some other guys had one done and people were still shooting on the last one. 

 

So since I know I won't be there setting up I do plenty of tearing down. Another guy helps set up so he can scoot when the match is over. It all works out

 

Entry fee is pretty reasonable and my back feels pretty good right now, I am 46 and a bit lazy; definitely entitled, but only cause others are beneath me

 

[motosapiens]

56 minutes ago, RJH said:

 

Meh, inconvenient time mainly. Some people help set up, some people help tear down, some tape, some run a tablet, some ro, some watch everyone else do all of it. 

 

I don't set up cause of inconvenient time. But last week I tore down a stage by myself and helped tear down 2 more out of 5. Would have helped on the 2 others, but some other guys had one done and people were still shooting on the last one. 

 

So since I know I won't be there setting up I do plenty of tearing down. Another guy helps set up so he can scoot when the match is over. It all works out

 

Entry fee is pretty reasonable and my back feels pretty good right now, I am 46 and a bit lazy; definitely entitled, but only cause others are beneath me

 

i don’t blame anyone for not setting up if its the day before. sounds like you are pulling your weight and i apologize if i came across as suggesting otherwise.

 

at my club setup is 60 mins before shooting, so its pretty convenient. (md and stage designers get there 15-30 mins earlier, which is still pretty convenient compared to a separate trip).

 

bottom line is to spread the work around, and to make it fun and worthwhile and convenient, so people don’t burn out.