​​​​​​​​​​​​​​Limited Optics guns--looking for input please

[Joe4d]

1 hour ago, TheChef1 said:

but then why not just shoot CO? I have a Rival with a freedomsmith and I love it but being able to slap on a magwell and s#!tty slide racker doesn't make me  want to go shoot another division. 

thats the whole point people been trying to make from the git go...
why even HAVE another division, only separated by things that dont matter on the scoreboard.
 

[TheChef1]

21 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

thats the whole point people been trying to make from the git go...
why even HAVE another division, only separated by things that dont matter on the scoreboard.
 

Yeah in my opinion the division only makes sense if we scale back CO  to be Production optics. Production  rules with a dot. but first we need to fix production. 15 rounds and going back to a more strict rule set on the guns.

[Joe4d]

9 minutes ago, TheChef1 said:

Yeah in my opinion the division only makes sense if we scale back CO  to be Production optics. Production  rules with a dot. but first we need to fix production. 15 rounds and going back to a more strict rule set on the guns.

Or call it what it is, A fudgecicle nobody but a few crayon chewers and winder likkers want and give it a box and weight rule that makes sense for a typical poly service gun, maybe enough for a light 5" STI to squeak in

 

 

[Racinready300ex]

On 4/15/2023 at 9:40 AM, TheChef1 said:

but then why not just shoot CO? I have a Rival with a freedomsmith and I love it but being able to slap on a magwell and s#!tty slide racker doesn't make me  want to go shoot another division. 

You can shoot either one. I wouldn't discount the Rival just because someone wants to shoot LO with a magwell vs CO with out. In time I think people will move to CO and if you want competition you'll come to LO with them. Might as well slap the magwell on then.

 

Rackers are kinda silly with out a frame mounted optic. IMO

[RJH]

On 4/15/2023 at 8:40 AM, TheChef1 said:

but then why not just shoot CO? I have a Rival with a freedomsmith and I love it but being able to slap on a magwell and s#!tty slide racker doesn't make me  want to go shoot another division. 

 

I know a guy with a rival s that plans on shooting it with the magwell in limited optics. One of the reasons he wants to do that is that he can also use it in modified in three gun, and doesn't have to change things back and forth. And he knows that the rival s will compete head to head with any other gun in limited optics, so no good reason for him to shoot it in carry ops. 

[Racinready300ex]

3 hours ago, RJH said:

 

I know a guy with a rival s that plans on shooting it with the magwell in limited optics. One of the reasons he wants to do that is that he can also use it in modified in three gun, and doesn't have to change things back and forth. And he knows that the rival s will compete head to head with any other gun in limited optics, so no good reason for him to shoot it in carry ops. 

 

I know a couple guys thinking the same but for their IDPA guns. They can then go back and forth with out taking parts off their guns. 

[MikeNS]

Lots of hate for the new division I see. Unfortunate as I believe it will open up the sport to a completely new demographic. Just my opinion. 

[Nitro1]

My opinion here. 
 

LO opens uspsa to me. I don’t want to lose my own ammo. So open division is pretty much out for me. Unless I shoot minor and take the points lose. 
 

also unless you have run a magwell while moving and shooting it is hard to knock it. Also a thumbrest/nitro fin adds alot of control to a gun. Use one and find out.  
 

to me LO is open for people who don’t want to load their own ammo and have a gun just a step or two shy of full open racegun. 

[ColoradoNick]

9 minutes ago, Nitro1 said:

My opinion here. 
 

LO opens uspsa to me. I don’t want to lose my own ammo. So open division is pretty much out for me. Unless I shoot minor and take the points lose. 
 

also unless you have run a magwell while moving and shooting it is hard to knock it. Also a thumbrest/nitro fin adds alot of control to a gun. Use one and find out.  
 

to me LO is open for people who don’t want to load their own ammo and have a gun just a step or two shy of full open racegun. 

You can use a thumb rest in carry optics and also factory ammo... The difference is really a magwell and SAO. In my experience of watching some of the top CO shooters around here  the magwell makes minimal difference. 

[Boomstick303]

35 minutes ago, Nitro1 said:

Also a thumbrest/nitro fin adds alot of control to a gun. Use one and find out.

 

Not necessarily true for everyone.  It can create a situation where the dot does not move in a vertical motion when using it.  Can you train with it to make the dot track the way it should?  Yes, but many have the dot tracking the way the want to now without reinventing the wheel.  Its another item where your result may vary.  

 

[shred]

For me the magwell advantage has very little to do with reloads; it's the grip improvement.

 

(As a lefty I've been able to ignore all the "it's really a slide stop, honest!" mess.)

 

[Racinready300ex]

12 hours ago, ColoradoNick said:

You can use a thumb rest in carry optics and also factory ammo... The difference is really a magwell and SAO. In my experience of watching some of the top CO shooters around here  the magwell makes minimal difference. 

 

My experiance going from divisions with and w/o magwells. A good reload with either is basically the same. But, no matter how good you are you'll botch a load from time to time. A magwell does reduce that, and a slightly botched reload with a magwell just takes a little more force to insert and doesn't really cost you any time. 

 

It depends on your gun some too, a Legion or a tanfo that's been opened up some is like having a magwell. There are plenty of pictures on here of what guys will do to those for production/CO. Now compare that to a Shadow 2 and it's night and day difference. 

[ColoradoNick]

22 minutes ago, Racinready300ex said:

 

My experiance going from divisions with and w/o magwells. A good reload with either is basically the same. But, no matter how good you are you'll botch a load from time to time. A magwell does reduce that, and a slightly botched reload with a magwell just takes a little more force to insert and doesn't really cost you any time. 

 

It depends on your gun some too, a Legion or a tanfo that's been opened up some is like having a magwell. There are plenty of pictures on here of what guys will do to those for production/CO. Now compare that to a Shadow 2 and it's night and day difference. 

I agree with that. I’m doing Burkett drills in around .8 in practice with a shadow 2 and meeting that probably 80% of the time. I don’t try and go that fast in a match. Knowing you can go fast and backing off a hair makes it easier for me. Losing 0.4 on a reload is generally not going to hurt you. Locally on a 6 stage match we’re talking like 2 seconds? Lots of other places I can make that up before I’m worried about the reload. 

[Nitro1]

On 4/25/2023 at 9:52 AM, shred said:

For me the magwell advantage has very little to do with reloads; it's the grip improvement.

 

(As a lefty I've been able to ignore all the "it's really a slide stop, honest!" mess.)

 

Very true. The large magwells lock my hand into the gun and it feels like home. Going back to non magwells guns feel so ick now. Lol 

[Nitro1]

On 4/25/2023 at 10:38 AM, ColoradoNick said:

I agree with that. I’m doing Burkett drills in around .8 in practice with a shadow 2 and meeting that probably 80% of the time. I don’t try and go that fast in a match. Knowing you can go fast and backing off a hair makes it easier for me. Losing 0.4 on a reload is generally not going to hurt you. Locally on a 6 stage match we’re talking like 2 seconds? Lots of other places I can make that up before I’m worried about the reload. 

While I can appreciate your view point. From videos I have seen and examples of the scoring. People who are less accurate but faster always get a better score than those more accurate. I say that because I would think speed is the most important at that point. So why not take full advantage if you can? 

[ColoradoNick]

12 hours ago, Nitro1 said:

While I can appreciate your view point. From videos I have seen and examples of the scoring. People who are less accurate but faster always get a better score than those more accurate. I say that because I would think speed is the most important at that point. So why not take full advantage if you can? 

To a degree yes but not always, remember if you aren’t scoring points it doesn’t matter how fast you are! I recently had the second fastest time on a stage but ended up 25th out of 41 after going 9A, 9C, 4D, 2M. In my defense I was working on shooting while moving (unsuccessfully!) I shot it in 10.38 and the fastest guy shot it in 9.87 and ended up 2nd. He was also PCC. The guy who won the stage went 12.33 18A 6C. 
 

We probably aren’t even disagreeing when you say “less accurate”, IMO a few Charlie’s are just fine. I wouldn’t say speed is most important though. 

I’m also just a B shooter so take this for what it’s worth!

Edited April 28, 2023 by ColoradoNick

[shred]

Dragons Cup, CO--  Max Michel overall time: 251 seconds. Division winner.

Tom Castro overall time 245 seconds.  6 seconds faster but 94% of Max's score.

 

There are similar examples all up and down the final scores.

[Nitro1]

On 4/28/2023 at 8:10 PM, shred said:

Dragons Cup, CO--  Max Michel overall time: 251 seconds. Division winner

Tom Castro overall time 245 seconds.  6 seconds faster but 94% of Max's score.

 

There are similar examples all up and down the final scores.

Fair point. Still new to all this myself and just going off what I read and watch from GM’s. 

[Kwontanamo]

On 3/1/2023 at 5:21 PM, ranger said:

MPA DS9. Love mine - got an early version and they already upgraded it to latest specs for free. MPA is a dominant force in PRS and they are committed to success in USPSA also. 

i'll be honest. if LO becomes an official division, i'm selling my tanfo stock 3 extreme and getting me a MPA DS9. Love that 1911 trigger. 

[MHicks]

On 4/28/2023 at 5:10 PM, shred said:

Dragons Cup, CO--  Max Michel overall time: 251 seconds. Division winner

Tom Castro overall time 245 seconds.  6 seconds faster but 94% of Max's score.

 

There are similar examples all up and down the final scores.

 

The way this statement is punctuated it reads that Tom Castro was the division winner. Max was the winner though wasn't  he?

[shred]

That's what the carriage return was for.  Splits the statements.

 

I'll go stick a period in there for the pedantic

 

[MHicks]

I'm not a sticker on grammar or punctuation but sometimes it can cause some confusion in these discussions. Might as well avoid the confusion when possible. 

[waynes_world_45]

On 5/1/2023 at 11:15 AM, Kwontanamo said:

i'll be honest. if LO becomes an official division, i'm selling my tanfo stock 3 extreme and getting me a MPA DS9. Love that 1911 trigger. 

Shot my new DS9LO in a match Tuesday night. I friggin loved it. If LO becomes a division I may abandon Open...lol

[HOGRIDER]

22 minutes ago, waynes_world_45 said:

Shot my new DS9LO in a match Tuesday night. I friggin loved it. If LO becomes a division I may abandon Open...lol

Hi Wayne!

 

I'm about 2 weeks out yet on my LO Comp!  Getting really pumped for this one!

 

[waynes_world_45]

5 minutes ago, HOGRIDER said:

Hi Wayne!

 

I'm about 2 weeks out yet on my LO Comp!  Getting really pumped for this one!

 

You're gonna love it.