deerslayer Posted February 22, 2023 Share Posted February 22, 2023 3 hours ago, Boomstick303 said: I wrote this in another thread. If you want Major in LO why are those people not mounting dots on their current Limited rigs and shooting open? Because a slide-mounted dot .40 Limited gun with 24 rounds and significant recoil vs a 9 or 38 real Open gun with 29 rounds and no recoil is not a contest. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 6 hours ago, deerslayer said: Because a slide-mounted dot .40 Limited gun with 24 rounds and significant recoil vs a 9 or 38 real Open gun with 29 rounds and no recoil is not a contest. So you mean it is at a competitive dis-advantage. Kind of like 9m SA minor guns would be at a disadvantage in LO if Major is allowed? Edited February 23, 2023 by Boomstick303 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) 2 hours ago, Boomstick303 said: So you mean it is at a competitive dis-advantage. Kind of like 9m SA minor guns would be at a disadvantage in LO if Major is allowed? Nobody likes .40, so it won’t matter. Edited February 23, 2023 by deerslayer Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitrohuck Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Just had an old buddy hit me up to say he wants to get into USPSA, and that he just bought a gun to compete with. what gun did you get, I asked Staccato in 9mm with red dot…. I then explained what divisions are. Anyway, I think .40 would be dumb for LO. Leave major scoring to Open/Lim, the future seems to be 9mm, I don’t see how .40 adds any benefit other than maybe for existing 2011 owners who don’t want to drop more money than they need to. …Or just allow SA guns into CO, I’m gonna burn another hole in my wallet regardless it seems. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cheby Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 13 hours ago, motosapiens said: Limited is really the only division where the primary challenge is the actual shooting; aiming, trigger control, recoil management. Yes! 100% agree, my friend Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
caspian guy Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 (edited) Given all of the changes they allowed in CO (and the fact that many striker fired guns are effectively non-hammer fired single action guns anyway) allowing Single Action hammer fired guns in CO would probably have been the easiest solution. However, it wouldn't have let the board see how many people chose that option from match result data, and wouldn't have let the board use that data to approach manufacturers looking for more sponsorship. So we are going to get LO minor. Based on the survey response that's what a small but meaningful part of the membership seems to want d(or at least the part that bothered to respond.) Thx for posting the pod cast I'll have to go listen to it. Edited February 23, 2023 by caspian guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 23 hours ago, waktasz said: The point is there are a bunch of people with off the shelf 2011s (or similar) that pretty much only come in 9mm that can't shoot CO right now. They can shoot open Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 7 minutes ago, Sestock said: They can shoot open Everyone could shoot open, that ship sailed as soon as we created a 2nd division. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Superkaratemonkeyfighter Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 Could this be irony. A division is created to allow the popular 2011 style guns with optics to compete with almost no changes….. isn’t that what everybody wanted ?! BUT they also allow major to compete. Interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinister4 Posted February 23, 2023 Share Posted February 23, 2023 So if they said this was a go right now, it would be like 2 years before it is actually a division ? If its provisional do scores still count to class ranking and listed on practiscore etc ? thanks Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
shred Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 They could allow 9 to score major in LO if it makes PF. That would be... interesting. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 Or they could just do what most of the membership voted for and make it minor only. With the added bonus of that makes the most sense logistically, because you can buy a plethora of different models of guns that are Sao 9 mm right off the shelf, along with the plethora of d a s a, and striker guns that would fit right in. Oh yeah and ammo cost which is the highest thing over time in USPSA is greatly reduced shooting 9 mil versus anything else I think the only people really itching for major are people who can't hit the a zone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 (edited) On 2/23/2023 at 12:53 PM, Superkaratemonkeyfighter said: Could this be irony. A division is created to allow the popular 2011 style guns with optics to compete with almost no changes….. isn’t that what everybody wanted ?! BUT they also allow major to compete. Interesting. And compensators Edited February 24, 2023 by Sestock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 On 2/23/2023 at 1:01 PM, Sinister4 said: So if they said this was a go right now, it would be like 2 years before it is actually a division ? If its provisional do scores still count to class ranking and listed on practiscore etc ? thanks I think it can become a full division in as little as 1 year, but I doubt they'd have enough data to make the call that fast. I think 2 is more likely. I imagine before it even becomes provisional they'll setup classifiers and you can already set it as a division in PS. So all that stuff will just roll over into the full division under the final rule set what ever that may be. Really the only difference in provisional is matches don't have to support it, and the rules can be changed easier. It took a long time for some clubs to start allowing PCC at matches. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 31 minutes ago, shred said: They could allow 9 to score major in LO if it makes PF. That would be... interesting. But, you need at least .40 for major in limited Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Racinready300ex Posted February 24, 2023 Share Posted February 24, 2023 8 minutes ago, Sestock said: But, you need at least .40 for major in limited The joy of creating a new division is the rules in other divisions don't really matter. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sestock Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 (edited) 3 hours ago, Racinready300ex said: The joy of creating a new division is the rules in other divisions don't really matter. OK then, what ever this abomination is don't have the word "limited" in it Edited February 25, 2023 by Sestock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nitrohuck Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 4 hours ago, RJH said: I think the only people really itching for major are people who can't hit the a zone. …. shots fired Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GJM Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 For historical purposes, I thought it would be fun to revisit the original announcement of CO on July 27, 2015. https://uspsa.org/announcement/379 snippet: Recently, the tides have started to turn, and it is USPSA who must keep up with the industry. We have recognized the progression of lightweight carry pistols that are being outfitted with slide mounted electronic optics. In an attempt to answer this growing trend, USPSA has approved the provisional division of Carry Optics. For the remainder of 2015, Carry Optics will be recognized at sanctioned Level 1 USPSA events. At the next in-person USPSA BOD meeting, Jan 23-24, 2016, the Board will evaluate member participation, industry response and growth trends to decide if Carry Optics can remain a viable division within USPSA. The division rules will stay very restrictive to avoid the potential "arms race" and will keep the requirements strictly in line with industry offerings. A complete appendix of Carry Optics division specifications will be available at www.uspsa.org in the coming days. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
YVK Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 4 minutes ago, GJM said: For historical purposes, I thought it would be fun to revisit the original announcement of CO on July 27, 2015. The division rules will stay very restrictive to avoid the potential "arms race" and will keep the requirements strictly in line with industry offerings. You can't deny the consistency in behavior: industry makes it, USPSA takes it. Besides, 59 oz weight and 140 mm mags is fairly restrictive. Could've been 170. Industry is now awash in carry comps and we still don't have a division for them in minor pf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 5 hours ago, RJH said: I think the only people really itching for major are people who can't hit the a zone. I would like to see major and in my last match I shot 94A, 21C, 2D, 0M, and 0 NS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 11 minutes ago, deerslayer said: I would like to see major and in my last match I shot 94A, 21C, 2D, 0M, and 0 NS. So you missed 23 times or 25 if you count Ds as 2 per Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 10 hours ago, RJH said: So you missed 23 times or 25 if you count Ds as 2 per Do you typically shoot 100% points? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 32 minutes ago, deerslayer said: Do you typically shoot 100% points? Nope, but I also ain't one crying for a crutch to help me when I do miss. No reason to reward mediocrity Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
deerslayer Posted February 25, 2023 Share Posted February 25, 2023 2 minutes ago, RJH said: Nope, but I also ain't one crying for a crutch to help me when I do miss. No reason to reward mediocrity B class is not mediocrity? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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