Equipment to get started in 2023

[cole440]

As far as the 38sc, I am wondering if I need to seat deeper to really see some more velocity. I am currently seating at 1.200 and most people seem to be shorter by quite a bit…

[ysrracer]

4 minutes ago, cole440 said:

As far as the 38sc, I am wondering if I need to seat deeper to really see some more velocity. I am currently seating at 1.200 and most people seem to be shorter by quite a bit…

Not me, I seat at 1.2 and I make minor just fine. If you seat too deep you'll start bulging the case, and they won't chamber.

[ysrracer]

But hey, load some at 1.19, 1.18, 1.17, 1.16, you'll know when they wont chamber. BUT KEEP IN MIND, THE PRESSURE GOES UP WHEN YOU SEAT DEEPER.

[cole440]

I guess what I will do first is do a ladder test that goes through 3.2 grains or so and see where that gets me.

[ysrracer]

4 minutes ago, cole440 said:

I guess what I will do first is do a ladder test that goes through 3.2 grains or so and see where that gets me.

 

I can't speak for you, but I'm shooting .38 Short Colt in a gun designed for .357 magnums.

 

When I first started shooting .38 Short Colt someone told me to start with 9mm load data, and work up from there.

 

Except I couldn't find any 9mm load data for heavy 160gn bullets, and even when I loaded lighter bullets they didn't give me the fps I needed due to the barrel gap in my revo vs a semi auto no barrel gap.

 

I actually started with .38 special, but couldn't get it anywhere near minor with the powders I had on hand.

[cole440]

Same here, I started with 9mm loads, but they are nowhere near the velocity they should be. No pressure signs whatsoever, primers are as rounded as they get.

[ysrracer]

3 minutes ago, cole440 said:

Same here, I started with 9mm loads, but they are nowhere near the velocity they should be. No pressure signs whatsoever, primers are as rounded as they get.

 

My primers are cratered like a teenager's face, but I'm still loading the same brass after 15 times.

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, cole440 said:

I’m only really using Titegroup because it’s the only fast powder I have at the moment, and as you guys know, supply is scarce lately. I just wanted a load to at least get started with!

Don't sweat it, just up the charge and enjoy.

[MikeyScuba]

My issue is I exchanged all my n320 for 3n38 last year and kept only 1 tub of 320.  And my pile of revo rounds is gone, we honestly didn’t expect to shoot revo again.  And getting n320 is expensive as *****.  But I at least I got a major stash of federals

 

so it’s not all bad news.

[Vic]

Mike, I just drug out my revolver a year ago,after a 22 year hiatus. Started shooting Steel Challenge and NRA action pistol, not a lot of movement,and I can still hang with my six shooter.....as long as I don't miss.

  I use the same powder that I used back then, WST. I've followed this forum for years, I used to shoot some of the same matches as Brian and Rob, so it was fun to see some of the old cadre of shooters post that I competed with back in the 80s.

  To get to the point though, I used to see lots of chatter about N320, what is the draw for it? I've never used it, but see it's available compared to the recent powder du jour,  Clay's. I shoot. 38 special.....is it worth a switch from WST to N320?

  

[gargoil66]

7 hours ago, ysrracer said:

But hey, load some at 1.19, 1.18, 1.17, 1.16, you'll know when they wont chamber. BUT KEEP IN MIND, THE PRESSURE GOES UP WHEN YOU SEAT DEEPER.

Absolutely.

 

You know when you are hitting max pressures if you chronograph the loads.  From seeing relatively large increases in velocity per X amount of powder change, one sees less and less increased velocity with the same change in powder weight. 

 

I think that seating deeper in such a small case as the .38 SC will also see increased velocity but it will be minimal compared to the pressure being produced. 

 

Luckily, we use N Frame revolvers.

 

GG

 

 

[cole440]

As it is I’m not seeing much change in velocity. I’m not real confident that I’m going to gain over 100 fps with .3 of a grain. 
 

but alas, all I can do is try!

[gargoil66]

11 hours ago, cole440 said:

As it is I’m not seeing much change in velocity. I’m not real confident that I’m going to gain over 100 fps with .3 of a grain. 
 

but alas, all I can do is try!

Cole:

 

.3 grain won't give you 100 fps.  Give it a try and see how much difference it gave you from your previous load.  Then judge further increases in charge.  

 

Also, I suspect your chronograph because you said your 9mm loads were low too.  If you have a load for something whose velocity you are confident of, shoot it over your chronograph and see if there is a difference between what you know to be accurate and your chronograph reading.  

 

No known load?  Shoot some standard velocity, 40 grain, .22 over the chronograph through a rifle (not pistol or revolver).  Surprising how close a 20 inch barrel .22 is to the printed velocities if you shoot the old 40 grain lead standard velocity ammo.  

 

GG

 

 

[Fishbreath]

13 hours ago, Vic said:

To get to the point though, I used to see lots of chatter about N320, what is the draw for it?

 

Advantages, from my view:

1. It meters well in both my Lee and Dillon powder measures.

2. Good case fill for light charges.

3. Burns cool and clean under coated bullets. One wet patch, one bore brush, and one dry patch will clean out my guns, typically, and it doesn't heat up much even in fairly long practices.

[cole440]

2 hours ago, gargoil66 said:

Cole:

 

.3 grain won't give you 100 fps.  Give it a try and see how much difference it gave you from your previous load.  Then judge further increases in charge.  

 

Also, I suspect your chronograph because you said your 9mm loads were low too.  If you have a load for something whose velocity you are confident of, shoot it over your chronograph and see if there is a difference between what you know to be accurate and your chronograph reading.  

 

No known load?  Shoot some standard velocity, 40 grain, .22 over the chronograph through a rifle (not pistol or revolver).  Surprising how close a 20 inch barrel .22 is to the printed velocities if you shoot the old 40 grain lead standard velocity ammo.  

 

GG

 

 

Here’s the kicker, I shot some ammo over it that I’m relatively certain of its velocity (although I haven’t shot it out of a 5 inch barrel. And it read almost 100 fps faster than I was expecting it to. So the chrono is at least in the ballpark.

[pskys2]

16 hours ago, cole440 said:

As it is I’m not seeing much change in velocity. I’m not real confident that I’m going to gain over 100 fps with .3 of a grain. 
 

but alas, all I can do is try!

When you go to lower pressures velocity can drop quickly.  I've also found going to a longer oal can slightly increase velocity, it's not normal but it can, due to case capacity and pressures.

The other things to check is your powder measure and scale.

My guess is if your powder measure averages 3.0+ for 5 drops you will be above the 120pf.  I say+ due to my habit of looking for 15.0 to 15.2 for 5 throws.  Even better at that light charge is to drop 10 charges weigh it and go by that average.

[cole440]

That was my hope, is that maybe I’m on the edge of breaking a velocity wall. I have seen that in rifle, but I don’t know about pistol loading for velocity. I think more of that fast powder to help offset the escaping gas from the B/C gap can only help.

 

[ysrracer]

I load .38 Short Colt. However when I set up my powder measure I drop three charges into a .357 shell, and take the average.

 

I'm using a Dillon 750 with a bullet feeder and a case feeder. I check my powder charge every 1000 our so shells. It never changes.

 

I also check my powder charge when a change to a new bottle of the same powder.

 

[cole440]

All of the loads I’ve done so far have been dropped on a chargemaster and verified on a mechanical scale. So I’m not suspecting my weights just yet.

 

I’d be more willing to suspect the chrono. I’ll load up more and go test them soon.

 

and I see your in Tustin, if I can’t get this worked out, you’ll be hearing from me! I live up in Ventura County and Commute to Malibu.

[ysrracer]

1 hour ago, cole440 said:

All of the loads I’ve done so far have been dropped on a chargemaster and verified on a mechanical scale. So I’m not suspecting my weights just yet.

 

I’d be more willing to suspect the chrono. I’ll load up more and go test them soon.

 

and I see your in Tustin, if I can’t get this worked out, you’ll be hearing from me! I live up in Ventura County and Commute to Malibu.

 

Sure, Angeles Shooting ranges is half way between us. Pick a day and we'll chrono some loads.

 

I'm retired, so I'm only free on Monday, Tuesday, Wednesday, Thursday, Friday, Saturday and Sunday

 

Just keep cramming in powder, you'll get there.

[Joe4d]

So on original topic,, Wife outa town and a gunshow in Wichita. 
617 ?  627 V comp ? or Slab side 5"... assuming I can find any of the above.
22 rimfire gonna be offered local Icor ?  (east kansas) 
Probably shoot a couple Icore and a couple steel challenge a year. 

[pskys2]

14 hours ago, Joe4d said:

So on original topic,, Wife outa town and a gunshow in Wichita. 
617 ?  627 V comp ? or Slab side 5"... assuming I can find any of the above.
22 rimfire gonna be offered local Icor ?  (east kansas) 
Probably shoot a couple Icore and a couple steel challenge a year. 

We haven't had anyone yet, but it's in the rule book.  So you might be alone in the category, but we would enjoy seeing it.  Might even bring in more shooters!  So yes you can.

Right now I have 100 38 sc cases that I shot in a 929 and am using a lee undersize sizing die to see how it works in my 627's.  Thinking if it's doable to easily swap back and forth, a 929 might just work in the future.

Edited February 17, 2023 by pskys2

[ysrracer]

When I shot .38 short colt in my 929 they expanded so much I couldn't get them into my .38 special sizing die.

[Joe4d]

Hadnt thought about a 929,, Way guns all seem to be made out of unubtanium these days.
Like Where are all the dang guns ? Pawn shop gun stores are empty,, new stores dont have much and wont or cant order anything

 

[pskys2]

3 hours ago, ysrracer said:

When I shot .38 short colt in my 929 they expanded so much I couldn't get them into my .38 special sizing die.

The ones I have were able to be sized down and used in both my 627s.  Just concerned that multiples would cause problems.  And all 100 were many times fired cases.