Equipment to get started in 2023

[pskys2]

9 minutes ago, cole440 said:

In the testing I’ve done so far it’s been fine. Cleaner than 2400 in 357 magnum. A lot less of a fireball though haha

I shot a couple of stages in a local match with 357 125 jhp 2400 at 1450 f/s, doubt i gave up anything to mikeyscuba's 3n38 open loads!

[cole440]

2 hours ago, pskys2 said:

I shot a couple of stages in a local match with 357 125 jhp 2400 at 1450 f/s, doubt i gave up anything to mikeyscuba's 3n38 open loads!

I love me some 44 magnum so I’ve got a good supply of 2400 and blue dot around that I also run in 357.

 

it’s just those pesky primers that need to come down in price!

 

while we’re on the topic, how is powder availability for any of you guys. I seem to find almost exclusively Hodgdon family products (Winchester, imr, accurate, Hodgdon). I haven’t seen any alliant powders in years!

[testosterone]

On 2/13/2023 at 12:16 PM, cole440 said:

I guess what I will do first is do a ladder test that goes through 3.2 grains or so and see where that gets me.

You are talking about 160 bullet in a 38 short colt in a 357 cylinder?   What velocity are you trying to get to?

 

I only load for icore, so if get to vicinity of 125 pf its fine, in a 929/9mm you should only need about 2.8-9g to make 775, which btw is about the speed that a 160 is not getting wildly overspun(imo)  when you push the 160's out into 830 range the groups open up considerably at 20 yards.   

 

In all my guns, titegroup goes up linear when you are in the safe zone, +15 fps per .1

 

I have in my auto's played around with 160's in the 132 pf range and it does take 3.2-3, and to be sure the primers are absolutely smashed and they eject with great vigor, the pressure is high.    I doubt its dangerous, but everyone has different comfort zone..

[Joe4d]

Clean has alot to do with bullets and pressure.
Tightgroup, loaded in 9mm with jacketed or plated 115's and 124's up around 130 pf works fine. Loaded in 40 with old school hardcast wax lubed to 130pf,,,, not so fine and to major with older Moly coated you smoke like a freight train. Havent tried it with the latest gen of coatings.
Most of the 38 special ammo I have is loaded with all the half lbs of various powders I had on hand from my IDPA and USPSA days where I chased latest greatest,
I think I could be pretty happy with 3 pistol powders for everything AA2 and BE86 and 2400.

[pskys2]

4 hours ago, testosterone said:

You are talking about 160 bullet in a 38 short colt in a 357 cylinder?   What velocity are you trying to get to?

 

I only load for icore, so if get to vicinity of 125 pf its fine, in a 929/9mm you should only need about 2.8-9g to make 775, which btw is about the speed that a 160 is not getting wildly overspun(imo)  when you push the 160's out into 830 range the groups open up considerably at 20 yards.   

 

In all my guns, titegroup goes up linear when you are in the safe zone, +15 fps per .1

 

I have in my auto's played around with 160's in the 132 pf range and it does take 3.2-3, and to be sure the primers are absolutely smashed and they eject with great vigor, the pressure is high.    I doubt its dangerous, but everyone has different comfort zone..

In my 38 short colt using 160 coated rn's and Clays/ClayDot I found accuracy tightened up above 820 f/s.  It was enough that I just use my USPSA loads for everything, even SC.  It could have been due to more consistent powder drops, though I use the extra small charge bar in my Dillon for these loads (talking going from 2.8 to 3.0 grains of powder).

Now in a 9mm I have very little experience in a Revolver.

[MikeyScuba]

In the 165gr .358 in my 929 I use 2.9g N320 for 130ish pf.  I found it returns to sights quicker than 2.7.-2.8gr

 

As for loads, nothing beats 14gr  of H110 in my 357 Ported Desert Eagle.   BOOOOOM

 

I just got a wack of 231/HP38 as N320 is scarce and $$$$$.  Plus hazmat around here is now $120 minimum.  So it's got to be local stores.

3N38 is completely gone from  North America it seems.  I have 10 2kg tubs but with my wife and I shooting 9.6gr....maybe 2 yrs or less....  or more if I shoot more revo.

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

Clean has alot to do with bullets and pressure.
Tightgroup, loaded in 9mm with jacketed or plated 115's and 124's up around 130 pf works fine. Loaded in 40 with old school hardcast wax lubed to 130pf,,,, not so fine and to major with older Moly coated you smoke like a freight train. Havent tried it with the latest gen of coatings.
Most of the 38 special ammo I have is loaded with all the half lbs of various powders I had on hand from my IDPA and USPSA days where I chased latest greatest,
I think I could be pretty happy with 3 pistol powders for everything AA2 and BE86 and 2400.

I always had trouble with AA powders squeezing out of the powder bar on my Dillons.  Left a mess of powder on the bench.

[testosterone]

I would also add, at least my experience anyways with tg, and all the fast stuff really, the barrel length doesn't matter very much, or at least i havent had a short enough barrel to notice...

My same load that makes 775-780 in the factory 6.5" barrel makes the exact same velocity in my fancy 4" hand made douglas barrels(thanks mike) that have dave lake styles holes in them halfway down the barrels...

[Joe4d]

Setting up a 617 for steel and Icore, need to find a belt before I get a holster and speedloader holders.
Any thoughts on a 2" gun belt ? seems thats what the holders require 1.75 or 2".. 
Bonus if it is looped lined.  to match my other belts and underbelts.
Looking at Speedbeez holders, looked at safariland 333's. A review says they put the inserts for 617's in and it works great, however no mention on what "The" is. something they made, came with ? bought elsewhere ? and Safarilands websight descriptions pretty much blow

 

[pskys2]

1 hour ago, Joe4d said:

Setting up a 617 for steel and Icore, need to find a belt before I get a holster and speedloader holders.
Any thoughts on a 2" gun belt ? seems thats what the holders require 1.75 or 2".. 
Bonus if it is looped lined.  to match my other belts and underbelts.
Looking at Speedbeez holders, looked at safariland 333's. A review says they put the inserts for 617's in and it works great, however no mention on what "The" is. something they made, came with ? bought elsewhere ? and Safarilands websight descriptions pretty much blow

 

Safariland hook and loop belts are opposite of the DAA's (my preferred as the outer belt is about as stiff as you can find and if you take the outer belt off the inner belt doesn't pick up lint & stuff).  Of course all velcro type belts come with their own inner belt.  I'd go with a 1.5" belt, if need be and a holder is slipping around you can always add stick on velcro to help secure it.

[Joe4d]

22 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

Safariland hook and loop belts are opposite of the DAA's (my preferred as the outer belt is about as stiff as you can find and if you take the outer belt off the inner belt doesn't pick up lint & stuff).  Of course all velcro type belts come with their own inner belt.  I'd go with a 1.5" belt, if need be and a holder is slipping around you can always add stick on velcro to help secure it.

yeh I think everyone figured out to make the inner belt loops for that reason,, AFTER I got vested in my setups, I use hook inner belt and loop outers 2.25" I like the taller belts..
Speed loader holders I am seeing wont work though

 

[pskys2]

2 hours ago, Joe4d said:

yeh I think everyone figured out to make the inner belt loops for that reason,, AFTER I got vested in my setups, I use hook inner belt and loop outers 2.25" I like the taller belts..
Speed loader holders I am seeing wont work though

 

Same here have a bunch of safariland belts in the shed.  Between the trash it picked up and lack of stiffness I gave up and went to daa. 

Btw march 5 is a uspsa match just west of Topeka.  Right now in shooting Co, but if another revolver signed up I'd switch.

March 11 there is one at desoto.

Edited February 22, 2023 by pskys2

[Joe4d]

20 minutes ago, pskys2 said:

Same here have a bunch of safariland belts in the shed.  Between the trash it picked up and lack of stiffness I gave up and went to daa. 

Btw march 5 is a uspsa match just west of Topeka.  Right now in shooting Co, but if another revolver signed up I'd switch.

March 11 there is one at desoto.

I Go back to work on the 4th, I work month on month off basically,  Is that Capitol city where they do steel ? shot revolver there.  Yeh ordered holders and a kydex holster, gonna put a dot on my 617 as I have one here including mount I never used.. Probably just thread things on an intructors belt for now if I can find one that hasnt shrunk since I moved

 

 

 

[pskys2]

42 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

I Go back to work on the 4th, I work month on month off basically,  Is that Capitol city where they do steel ? shot revolver there.  Yeh ordered holders and a kydex holster, gonna put a dot on my 617 as I have one here including mount I never used.. Probably just thread things on an intructors belt for now if I can find one that hasnt shrunk since I moved

 

 

 

Yep they shoot steel on the 4th sunday.  About 5 miles west of Topeka on i70.

[cole440]

Well guys, I finally had the chance to get out and complete the chrono work. Funny enough 3.0 grains is right where I am going to end up! The velocity gain from 2.6 to 2.8 grains was 80 FPS! from there it was small steps again. 

 

I ran tests through 3.1 grains just to see what it would do and it's nice to know that I have some headroom.

The photo is the cases from the 3.1 grain test. No pressure signs whatsoever. They fell out of the cylinder without even using the extractor. I call it a win. I'm sure 3.2 would have been fine but I knew where I needed to be so I just called it at 3.1.

 

I guess it's time to load a bunch and start getting the feel for them!

[ysrracer]

24 minutes ago, cole440 said:

Well guys, I finally had the chance to get out and complete the chrono work. Funny enough 3.0 grains is right where I am going to end up! The velocity gain from 2.6 to 2.8 grains was 80 FPS! from there it was small steps again. 

 

I ran tests through 3.1 grains just to see what it would do and it's nice to know that I have some headroom.

The photo is the cases from the 3.1 grain test. No pressure signs whatsoever. They fell out of the cylinder without even using the extractor. I call it a win. I'm sure 3.2 would have been fine but I knew where I needed to be so I just called it at 3.1.

 

I guess it's time to load a bunch and start getting the feel for them!

 

Refresh my memory please. 3 grains of what? Behind what bullet?

[cole440]

35 minutes ago, ysrracer said:

 

Refresh my memory please. 3 grains of what? Behind what bullet?

3 grains of Titegroup behind a 160 blue bullet.

 

3 grains is giving (if I remember my data correct) 127 or so PF.

 

I’m debating if I should set up for 3 grains biasing my measure toward the high side, or just go with 3.1 and never worry about it again.

 

I’m thinking the second option is the best.

[gargoil66]

7 hours ago, cole440 said:

3 grains of Titegroup behind a 160 blue bullet.

 

3 grains is giving (if I remember my data correct) 127 or so PF.

 

I’m debating if I should set up for 3 grains biasing my measure toward the high side, or just go with 3.1 and never worry about it again.

 

I’m thinking the second option is the best.

Cole:

 

In the game you are playing, 3.1 is a good choice.

 

GG

[Fishbreath]

100%.

 

My match load chronos 132-135 most of the time. I don't change it between USPSA and ICORE, either. Much better to know it's always going to pass, rather than having to worry about it.

[cole440]

1 hour ago, Fishbreath said:

100%.

 

My match load chronos 132-135 most of the time. I don't change it between USPSA and ICORE, either. Much better to know it's always going to pass, rather than having to worry about it.

My thoughts exactly. Plus, I’d hate to get everything all set up, sights zeroed, press dialed in, to have to go back and change it later…

[MikeyScuba]

I just had to switch to Win231 from N320 and low and behold it's a LOT cleaner.  Did have to bump from 2.9gr N320 to 3.3gr of 231 only based on where the rounds hit.  They were too low at 3.1gr.  So no idea on chrono but the gun doesn't feel much different.

 

[ysrracer]

26 minutes ago, MikeyScuba said:

I just had to switch to Win231 from N320 and low and behold it's a LOT cleaner.  Did have to bump from 2.9gr N320 to 3.3gr of 231 only based on where the rounds hit.  They were too low at 3.1gr.  So no idea on chrono but the gun doesn't feel much different.

 

 

What bullet are you using?

[MikeyScuba]

165gr .358 Ibeji

[pskys2]

12 hours ago, cole440 said:

3 grains of Titegroup behind a 160 blue bullet.

 

3 grains is giving (if I remember my data correct) 127 or so PF.

 

I’m debating if I should set up for 3 grains biasing my measure toward the high side, or just go with 3.1 and never worry about it again.

 

I’m thinking the second option is the best.

If you plan on any Major USPSA Matches stay above 130PF.  If only ICORE, Club Level USPSA and SC go with what is the most accurate.  I ended up going to 3.0 of ClayDot from 2.8 because the 3.0 was more accurate.

[Joe4d]

reminds me I should probably try to score some short colt brass