Match scoring and classifier re-shoots

[SGT_Schultz]

Does the score from a classifier re-shoot count for match results?

 

I didn't think they did but the official USPSA results of an all classifier match that I went to yesterday seems to say otherwise.  They have scores marked (REENTRY) in the results.  In one stage, a guy with a re-entry score took the stage win.

 

WTF?

[motosapiens]

they shouldn't count, but then classifier matches don't really count as matches either.

 

how much cash did the guy get for the stage win?

[Nathanb]

They shouldn’t count. And won’t against the overall standings. But I bet the md didn’t bother trying to upload the match results and classifier reshoots separately and that’s what happens. 
 

I’m not aware of a way to make it so the reshoot doesn’t show up on individual stage results without pulling it and putting it in its own match results and uploading separately 

Edited June 13, 2021 by Nathanb

[SGT_Schultz]

3 hours ago, motosapiens said:

but then classifier matches don't really count as matches either.

 

how much cash did the guy get for the stage win?

 

Irrelevant

[SGT_Schultz]

2 hours ago, Nathanb said:

They shouldn’t count. And won’t against the overall standings. But I bet the md didn’t bother trying to upload the match results and classifier reshoots separately and that’s what happens. 
 

I’m not aware of a way to make it so the reshoot doesn’t show up on individual stage results without pulling it and putting it in its own match results and uploading separately 

 

This makes sense.  I'm just going to avoid that club from now on.  It's right on the edge of being too far for a club match and it has other issues that don't sit well with me

[Boomstick303]

I have seen it scored both ways. Our club makes you use the first go at the classifier regardless if it is worse or better then the subsequent attempts. I have been to their clubs where the used my second classifier attempt which was much better than the first. I didn’t agree with them using the second run. It didn’t make much difference in the final standings if my memory serves me right. 

[driver8M3]

Video #9 says the re-entry is to be added as a separate entry in the original match and thus included in the stage and overall scores.

 

https://uspsa.org/practiscore/

[SGT_Schultz]

2 hours ago, driver8M3 said:

Video #9 says the re-entry is to be added as a separate entry in the original match and thus included in the stage and overall scores.

 

https://uspsa.org/practiscore/

 

Thanks for the link, but that makes it even more confusing

 

The very first slide of that video clearly says:

• Optional reshoot to improve classifier score
  • First attempt is used for match score (emphasis mine) and must not be overwritten

That means, at least to me, that reshoots should not figure in stage or division scores for the match.

 

What am I missing here?

Edited June 14, 2021 by SGT_Schultz

[motosapiens]

1 hour ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

Thanks for the link, but that makes it even more confusing

 

The very first slide of that video clearly says:

• Optional reshoot to improve classifier score
  • First attempt is used for match score (emphasis mine) and must not be overwritten

That means, at least to me, that reshoots should not figure in stage or division scores for the match.

 

What am I missing here?

 

two different things going on. one, is you need to leave the reshoot scores in to upload to uspsa and calculate the activity fees. second is you need to take the reshoots out somehow to upload the scores to practiscore. I suspect someone is getting confused somewhere.

[Barcode1337]

6 hours ago, driver8M3 said:

Video #9 says the re-entry is to be added as a separate entry in the original match and thus included in the stage and overall scores.

 

https://uspsa.org/practiscore/

 

I was confused about this process prior to this thread. This is much more simple than I had thought. If a person does the reshoot to improve their score, you add a new competitor entry for that classifier. DNF the rest of the stages for the new entry. Then when it's uploaded to USPSA, the best score is used. Slick.

[Bakerjd]

I just wish clubs around me would actually let you do a reshoot. 

[Fishbreath]

2 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

I just wish clubs around me would actually let you do a reshoot. 

 

Huh! Most of the ones near me do, at least to my recollection. (I only very rarely will, though.)

[Bagellord]

The way we do it, is if someone reshoots a classifier by choice (outside of a mandatory reshoot), we add another shooter entry and leave the original score. Both scores are uploaded to PractiScore and USPSA. So you end up with an extra entry for the shooter at the bottom of the results because they only shot 1 stage, and USPSA gets their activity fees.

[NMBOpen]

6 minutes ago, Bagellord said:

The way we do it, is if someone reshoots a classifier by choice (outside of a mandatory reshoot), we add another shooter entry and leave the original score. Both scores are uploaded to PractiScore and USPSA. So you end up with an extra entry for the shooter at the bottom of the results because they only shot 1 stage, and USPSA gets their activity fees.

+100

[Nathanb]

24 minutes ago, Bagellord said:

The way we do it, is if someone reshoots a classifier by choice (outside of a mandatory reshoot), we add another shooter entry and leave the original score. Both scores are uploaded to PractiScore and USPSA. So you end up with an extra entry for the shooter at the bottom of the results because they only shot 1 stage, and USPSA gets their activity fees.

This is how I did it too. But then you have a scenario like this where the reshoot wins the stage and takes the stage points when it shouldn’t count towards the overall match.  This thread really made me think twice about how I’ll handle reshoots going forward. 

[Nathanb]

6 hours ago, Bakerjd said:

I just wish clubs around me would actually let you do a reshoot. 

Not sure why they wouldn’t as long as it doesn’t interfere with the match flow. I’m also way more lenient with those who help and aren’t a giant pain in the ass. I won’t stay after a match is over and let someone reshoot it until their out of ammo either but if it fits into the match and doesn’t cause a back up it’s not a big deal 

[broadside72]

4 minutes ago, Nathanb said:

This is how I did it too. But then you have a scenario like this where the reshoot wins the stage and takes the stage points when it shouldn’t count towards the overall match.  This thread really made me think twice about how I’ll handle reshoots going forward. 

 

Either let it stand as a stage win, or create a second match with just the retries as entries and upload that match separately.  Either way USPSA gets their money and the classifiers attempts all get counted

[Bagellord]

1 hour ago, Nathanb said:

This is how I did it too. But then you have a scenario like this where the reshoot wins the stage and takes the stage points when it shouldn’t count towards the overall match.  This thread really made me think twice about how I’ll handle reshoots going forward. 

That's a good point, but it is the way that they have said it should be done. Maybe PractiScore will add a "not for match score" option to entries.

[euxx]

18 hours ago, Barcode1337 said:

I was confused about this process prior to this thread. This is much more simple than I had thought. If a person does the reshoot to improve their score, you add a new competitor entry for that classifier. DNF the rest of the stages for the new entry. Then when it's uploaded to USPSA, the best score is used. Slick.

 

It is only "slick" until that classifier re-entry win the stage and pushes other scores down enough to change the overall standings...

 

Anyhow, this is one of the things USPSA should have put more thoughts in and should have worked closely with the PractiScore crew. It is not that hard to figure out what need to be done on both sides. This is one of those things that requires both parties to work together. But at least one of the parties either doesn't care or has no idea that there is an issue. Hint – it is not PractiScore.

[SGT_Schultz]

6 hours ago, euxx said:

 

It is only "slick" until that classifier re-entry win the stage and pushes other scores down enough to change the overall standings...

 

Anyhow, this is one of the things USPSA should have put more thoughts in and should have worked closely with the PractiScore crew. It is not that hard to figure out what need to be done on both sides. This is one of those things that requires both parties to work together. But at least one of the parties either doesn't care or has no idea that there is an issue. Hint – it is not PractiScore.

 

+1

[SGT_Schultz]

10 hours ago, broadside72 said:

 

create a second match with just the retries as entries and upload that match separately.

 

This is the way

 

At least for now