Primers and relative "hardness" - Federal vs. Federal Magnum vs. Winchester

[matteekay]

Hey all! I'm curious about your experience with the "hardness"* of these primers. Obviously Federal SPP is the gold-standard when it comes to revolver shooting, but I'm trying to hold those in reserve for big matches and the like. I have smaller stockpiles of both Federal Magnum and Winchester SPP that I'm planning to load for practice and locals - has anyone compared the two? Does either light off as consistently as Fed #100's? I'll be "fully seating" the primers on my XL650 regardless of which brand I run.

 

*Hardness meaning "the relative difficulty of a revolver with a light mainspring to activate the primer", not physical hardness

[Jim Watson]

All I can say about small pistol primers is that when Winchester quit nickel plating their primers, they became more sensitive, but not sensitive enough for my Colt Custom Python.   

 

Of the large primers I load .45ACP with, WLP is clearly "harder" than FLP but not as "hard" as CCI LP.

[Silver_Surfer]

CCI & Remington for me.

[Joe4d]

well I would trade you my remingtons then if you ever visit VA. 

Picked up a couple k of these at a pawn shop,,, Reminton Large pistol.. loaded in 45 ACP, get about 10% failure rate on first strike in a 1911 with an 18lb MSH. They go off after a second drop usually.  Changed to a 20 lb spring, we shall see what happens. Havent has this issue with any federal or winchester products

 

[pskys2]

I loaded up all of my F200, SPM for practice and have had only 1 out of 100 take a 2nd strike. I do know we used the SPM & SR Primers in 38 Supers for Open to keep primer flow under control.  So the cup is thicker/stronger but the mix seems to be the same so I'd expect the need for a little more hammer power.

CCI and Remington always seemed the hardest with WW Standard Pistol Primers a bit harder than the Federal Pistol & Rifle Primers.

 

So for practice a harder primer, to a point, can be used as a training tool.  For matches I'd get a slightly longer Strain Screw and up the MS force to at least 45oz+.

[Silver_Surfer]

32 minutes ago, Joe4d said:

well I would trade you my remingtons then if you ever visit VA. 

Picked up a couple k of these at a pawn shop,,, Reminton Large pistol.. loaded in 45 ACP, get about 10% failure rate on first strike in a 1911 with an 18lb MSH. They go off after a second drop usually.  Changed to a 20 lb spring, we shall see what happens. Havent has this issue with any federal or winchester products

 

If this was for me. I meant to say those two brands were hard mfers

[matteekay]

2 hours ago, pskys2 said:

So for practice a harder primer, to a point, can be used as a training tool.  For matches I'd get a slightly longer Strain Screw and up the MS force to at least 45oz+.

 

Directions unclear.

 

 

 

Thanks for the SPM/SRP info. I've used Fed SP Mags in the past and I have a vague memory of them being a bit stiffer.

[radny97]

Fiocchi SPP are pretty soft. They are not like federal, but seem softer than CCI. I have not compared them to WSP or Remington. I’ve been turned off of Winchester because their large pistol primers are so hard. 

[MikeyScuba]

I noticed no difference between the regular and magnum FSPP.  In fact for a while the magnums were cheaper so I bought those.

 Did shoot Winchesters in June but had a harder rebound spring with increased main spring tension.  However my wife had to switch to her comp gun set to FED100’s during the training and she had no issues... go figure...?

 

Had tried Fiochcci’s (mainly non-tox) and had issues with light strikes.  Used them for ipsc limited in our 2011’s. Oddly I’ve set off 2 of those while loading on my 650. No daisy chain thankfully.  I’ll put the Fiochcci’s to use for trying open ipsc.  Glad I stashed them.

[Toolguy]

I have had equal success with Federal SP and SPM. The magnums appear to give an average of 15 FPS more velocity in a given target load. The difference between shots is often more than that. My non scientific, seat of the pants testing seems to show the easiest to set off is Federal, then Winchester, then Remington, then CCI in ascending order. I have not used any of the foreign primers like Fiocchi or Wolf. The Win. and CCI primers seem to be good quality and consistent when hit hard enough, Rem. seems a bit iffy on quality, like their .22 ammo and other products. Maybe that will improve over time with new ownership.

[Fishbreath]

I ran Winchesters for a good bit of last year in my Super GP100, and could set them off consistently with a 10lb hammer spring. Dropping to the 9lb hammer spring gave me about a 1/100 misfire rate.

 

With Federal SP Magnum, I don't have nearly enough data to provide a one-in-whatever figure, but my feeling is that they're much more reliable with the 9lb spring—maybe not 1/1000, but probably at least 1/250 or so.

[GOF]

8 hours ago, Toolguy said:

I have had equal success with Federal SP and SPM. The magnums appear to give an average of 15 FPS more velocity in a given target load. The difference between shots is often more than that. My non scientific, seat of the pants testing seems to show the easiest to set off is Federal, then Winchester, then Remington, then CCI in ascending order. I have not used any of the foreign primers like Fiocchi or Wolf. The Win. and CCI primers seem to be good quality and consistent when hit hard enough, Rem. seems a bit iffy on quality, like their .22 ammo and other products. Maybe that will improve over time with new ownership.

I have to agree. Shooting a revo with a 7.75 pound trigger pull, Federals are it, although Win has worked, the others are a no-no. In a striker fired semi-auto I have no problems with those, or CCI. No thoughts on Rem (their QC prevents me from purchasing anything they make), or the foreign primers.

[matteekay]

I appreciate everyone's insights. I've run both of these primers in the past (FSPM and WSP) but in different guns. My prior 627 didn't seem to have an issue with the FMSPP and my Charging Rhinos did fine with WSP, but the Charging models actually had a heavier trigger than my current Rhinos. I will probably exhaust my supply of FSPM before I try switching to the Winchesters.

[mchapman]

Matt, do you different thickness moonclips available for your Rinos? The reason I ask is that in my 929 I always run Fed spp or spm with no issues using .035 thick moons, but if I switch to Win primers, I can get them to run pretty consistantly by using .040 moons. In my 627's the only difference that I have found between SPP and the SPM is that I get a few feet per second slower with the SPM. I can run Win's in the 627 if I tweak the strain screw a bit. Taking it to 6.5 to 7.

[matteekay]

1 hour ago, mchapman said:

Matt, do you different thickness moonclips available for your Rinos? The reason I ask is that in my 929 I always run Fed spp or spm with no issues using .035 thick moons, but if I switch to Win primers, I can get them to run pretty consistantly by using .040 moons. In my 627's the only difference that I have found between SPP and the SPM is that I get a few feet per second slower with the SPM. I can run Win's in the 627 if I tweak the strain screw a bit. Taking it to 6.5 to 7.

 

Nah, I'm at the mercy of what TK makes. For 9/40, that's only .032 . It's a really good point, though - slightly thicker moons would bring the primer closer to the firing pin and prevent the round from jumping after impact. 

 

Any reason you don't use the .040 all the time?

[mchapman]

1 minute ago, matteekay said:

 

 

Any reason you don't use the .040 all the time?

Ya I'm a woose the 40's are harder to moon up and demoon. The .035 is so much easier and I have no issues with wobble on the reloads with them so I prefer to use them most of the time when using that gun.

[Fishbreath]

You know, I hadn't even considered that as a variable. Maybe it's time to invest in some thicker moon clips...

[Toolguy]

That's one of the things the extended firing pins were invented for.

[ysrracer]

I've shot Federal Small Pistol Primers and Federal Small Pistol MATCH Primers, and couldn't tell the difference other than price.

[MikeyScuba]

The only difference (other than box & price) is that the primer maker on shift that day is more experienced.

[pskys2]

5 hours ago, ysrracer said:

I've shot Federal Small Pistol Primers and Federal Small Pistol MATCH Primers, and couldn't tell the difference other than price.

During the last Primer Shortage I found and used several flats of Federal SP Match Primers.  I used them along with some F100's I'd found.  Guess what I found 4 out of all those flats that had damaged or inverted anvils!?  It seemed they were rushing things through without as extensive QC as had been done in the past.  I also had a "few" clicks in my Revolvers I couldn't quite explain away during that time.

As for "normal" I found no difference in reliability or ease of ignition between the two.  It did seem that the Extreme Spread was less.  Though that never seemed to translate into any accuracy gains in my guns.