IHAVEGAS Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 I think I screwed up, but verification is a good thing. USPSA match, after telling a shooter to "make ready" he loaded and holstered and the gun dropped out of his holster (open type) when he removed his hand. My thinking was that he had not started the course of fire yet and he allowed me to pick up his gun so I should handle this just like you would a dropped gun during a stage walk through (for example) and no dq. Looking at the rules it appears that the course of fire started when I said "make ready" so I should have called a dq. Right?? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
louu Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) Yes, you are correct. COF starts at the make ready command and yes it's a DQ. Edited November 2, 2020 by louu Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JohnStewart Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 Live & learn, kudo's to you for digging in to learn the specifics of the rules. You are correct though, the competitor should have been DQ'd for dropping a gun during the COF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 9 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: Looking at the rules it appears that the course of fire started when I said "make ready" so I should have called a dq. Right?? As many times as this forum has confirmed the COF begins with make ready, you had to look that up? Come on man..... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 (edited) 17 minutes ago, Sarge said: As many times as this forum has confirmed the COF begins with make ready, you had to look that up? Come on man..... Actually I think it was trying to remember back to the conclusion of one of the loooonnnggg and painful rule discussions that motivated me to screw it up in the first place. That is not an excuse though, I screwed up. Edited November 2, 2020 by IHAVEGAS Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 The fact that he had loaded the gun should have given it away Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 4 minutes ago, terrydoc said: The fact that he had loaded the gun should have given it away Where is that in the rules? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 13 minutes ago, terrydoc said: The fact that he had loaded the gun should have given it away still a dq with an unloaded gun if it occurs during the cof. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 26 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: Where is that in the rules? 1 - If the gun was loaded, and it was NOT during a CoF, then it shouldn't have been loaded ... DQ! 2 - I the gun was loaded then it SHOULD have been during a CoF ... Again, DQ! OK ... Sarcasm mode off. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 2, 2020 Author Share Posted November 2, 2020 8 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said: 2 - I the gun was loaded then it SHOULD have been during a CoF ... Confirming how the rules describe the start of a COF is sort of the whole gist of this thread. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
broadside72 Posted November 2, 2020 Share Posted November 2, 2020 47 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: Where is that in the rules? he either dropped a loaded gun and was thus in the CoF so he's DQ'd, or he dropped a loaded gun that was not supposed to be loaded and he is DQ'd for that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 17 minutes ago, broadside72 said: he either dropped a loaded gun and was thus in the CoF so he's DQ'd, or he dropped a loaded gun that was not supposed to be loaded and he is DQ'd for that. After there is a correct understanding of how the start of a COF is defined, sure. Else, if any rules related to a dropped gun mention whether or not the gun is loaded I have not found them or seen them referenced here. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 12 minutes ago, IHAVEGAS said: After there is a correct understanding of how the start of a COF is defined, sure. Else, if any rules related to a dropped gun mention whether or not the gun is loaded I have not found them or seen them referenced here. 10.5.3 If at any time during the course of fire, or while loading , reloading or unloading , a competitor drops his firearm or causes it to fall, loaded or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Schutzenmeister Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Dude ... If you drop a gun DURING the CoF (as described in the OP) it is a DQ, loaded or not. The gun WAS loaded and he dropped it. It was loaded because he loaded it during the CoF ... He's DQ'd because he dropped it. The fact it was loaded is what we call in the trade, a clue that it was likely DURING the CoF. Were it NOT during a CoF and it was loaded he's DQ'd because it should not have been loaded. In short, it's IMPOSSIBLE to drop a loaded gun and not earn a DQ for it! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 Is there 10 minutes ago, Schutzenmeister said: Dude ... If you drop a gun DURING the CoF (as described in the OP) it is a DQ, loaded or not. The gun WAS loaded and he dropped it. It was loaded because he loaded it during the CoF ... He's DQ'd because he dropped it. The fact it was loaded is what we call in the trade, a clue that it was likely DURING the CoF. Were it NOT during a CoF and it was loaded he's DQ'd because it should not have been loaded. In short, it's IMPOSSIBLE to drop a loaded gun and not earn a DQ for it! The question that inspired this thread (confirming definition for the start of the course of fire) was answered in the first response and apparently there is nothing in the rules mentioning whether or not a dropped gun is loaded. I got it, not sure why there are multiple posts explaining the immediately obvious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mchapman Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 1 hour ago, IHAVEGAS said: apparently there is nothing in the rules mentioning whether or not a dropped gun is loaded. 10.5.13 says having loaded gun other than under RO control is DQ. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said: Is there The question that inspired this thread (confirming definition for the start of the course of fire) was answered in the first response and apparently there is nothing in the rules mentioning whether or not a dropped gun is loaded. Of course there is. There's a rule about dropping during the COF, and a rule about being loaded at any time other than during the COF. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
terrydoc Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 Sooo how often does a competitor load his gun before LAMR? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 6 hours ago, terrydoc said: Sooo how often does a competitor load his gun before LAMR? And also, if you jump up and down naked during a course of fire while screaming "Krishna Krishna Hari Krishna" and flapping your arms like chicken wings, that is a dq under 10.6.1 . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 7 hours ago, terrydoc said: Sooo how often does a competitor load his gun before LAMR? Not sure since that’s not a valid range command. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
gerritm Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 7 hours ago, terrydoc said: Sooo how often does a competitor load his gun before LAMR? Have actually seen this happen. New shooter comes up and before RO can say MR he loads it up. gerritm Edited November 3, 2020 by gerritm Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
motosapiens Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 23 minutes ago, gerritm said: Have actually seen this happen. New shooter comes up and before RO can say MR he loads it up. gerritm usually they only do it once. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mreed911 Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 8 hours ago, terrydoc said: Sooo how often does a competitor load his gun before LAMR? Enough that there's a rule about it. And I've issued a DQ for loading before "make ready" once. Loaded table start. Competitor approached the line, unholstered and began inserting a magazine before make ready. Earned them a "Stop, Unload and Show Clear" and no more shooting that day. There's also lots of it happening at the trunks of cars where competitors step out with concealed carry guns and take them off their belt, etc., to put them in the car (or the reverse at the end of a match). That's a loaded gun, too, and falls under match rules. Edited November 3, 2020 by mreed911 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cuz Posted November 3, 2020 Share Posted November 3, 2020 (edited) 16 hours ago, IHAVEGAS said: I got it, not sure why there are multiple posts explaining the immediately obvious. Are you kidding??? this will go on for days... Edited November 3, 2020 by Cuz Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
IHAVEGAS Posted November 3, 2020 Author Share Posted November 3, 2020 2 minutes ago, Cuz said: Are you kidding??? this will go on for days... At the time, it seemed like a yes or no question was safe enough. Silly me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts
Create an account or sign in to comment
You need to be a member in order to leave a comment
Create an account
Sign up for a new account in our community. It's easy!
Register a new accountSign in
Already have an account? Sign in here.
Sign In Now