Stafford Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 For those who shoot Carry Optics, or Open, do you run a dot on your every day carry pistol? Why/Why not? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted October 12, 2020 Share Posted October 12, 2020 3 minutes ago, Stafford said: For those who shoot Carry Optics, or Open, do you run a dot on your every day carry pistol? Why/Why not? Yes on both of my EDC guns. Mainly because I am way faster with a dot than I am with Irons. In shooting carry optics, training and competing with a dot carries over to my EDC guns. Dots allow you to be threat focused more so than Irons. With Irons you train mainly as front sight focused. As iron shooters become more proficient I hear that iron shooters learn to shoot some targets as target focused and use a combination of front sight and target focus during competition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
costeel Posted October 13, 2020 Share Posted October 13, 2020 I do, for the same reasons as above, but I also run backup irons on my EDC.....just in case. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
HCH Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Nope. Not a fan of a sight getting broken, covered in lint, wet, etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joe4d Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Slide ride optics are pretty fun toys for playing games. Just do some reading, none of them are reliable enough for me. And no I especially dont want a confusing mess of cowitness, rather have no sights. ALso look up some classifiers HHF on shorter range classifiers. You will find statistically no difference between CO and production shooters. Learn to shoot target focus. In a threat, you are gonna do that anyways. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ClangClang Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 Yup. I spend enough time training with an optic that it makes sense for me to carry with an optic as well. I've settled on the Aimpoint Acro, so there really aren't any concerns with lint, moisture, etc. I have no BUIS. It's cost me on 1 stage ever in my life, when somehow the adjustment buttons got pressed and turned the brightness down a couple clicks between "Make ready" and "Standby." I might get some low profile BUIS in the future. Maybe. I prefer an uncluttered view. The Acro isn't the ideal competition optic, primarily due to the smaller glass field of view compared to any of the really large glass options (SRO, DPP, Romeo MAX, etc) but it's still quite good, especially if you're coming from the tiny RMR. Additionally, the Acro is so far proving to be the most durable/reliable slide-mounted optic I've ever owned compared to multiple DPPs, multiple RMRs, a Sig Romeo Pro, and a Holosun. Never owned a CMore, but I've seen enough reported issues to know that I wouldn't put a CMore on a carry gun, ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 On 10/12/2020 at 10:40 AM, Stafford said: For those who shoot Carry Optics, or Open, do you run a dot on your every day carry pistol? Why/Why not? Yes Because a reflex sight is faster, significantly faster, at my age regardless of distance. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SGT_Schultz Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Joe4d said: Slide ride optics are pretty fun toys for playing games. Just do some reading, none of them are reliable enough for me. And no I especially dont want a confusing mess of cowitness, rather have no sights. ALso look up some classifiers HHF on shorter range classifiers. You will find statistically no difference between CO and production shooters. Learn to shoot target focus. In a threat, you are gonna do that anyways. Having actually put a decent number (>10K) of rounds through a single RMR without a single issue, I actually think know that it will work when I need it to. Having BUIS of the correct height, I think know that they don't confuse me because they are out of focus and in the bottom of the lens. I only notice them when I want to. Do what you want. But don't expect those who've actually gone down this road to think your assumptions are valid. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 On 10/12/2020 at 9:51 AM, Boomstick303 said: With Irons you train mainly as front sight focused. As iron shooters become more proficient I hear that iron shooters learn to shoot some targets as target focused and use a combination of front sight and target focus during competition. The #1 real-life useful thing I learned from my years working up to A in production was to shoot everything inside of 10-15 yards or so with a target focus through the sights. Optics are slower to acquire than a dot - up close one can use irons to land hits with everything misaligned well beyond the dot’s presence in the window. Irons are also always faster inside of about 7 yards, in my opinion. Irons work in the rain, when covered in blood, and most shooters have had an optic fail if they’ve been running CO regularly and shoot a high volume of rounds. Dots are fun for games - I love CO and have had two slides milled for optics. Irons are better for a handgun you’d take into a war, if you’ve put the work in. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 What is BUIS? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intheshaw1 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, Stafford said: What is BUIS? Back up iron sights Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 4 minutes ago, Intheshaw1 said: Back up iron sights Ok, makes sense. Sidebar: A shooter is front sight focused with irons. Makes the switch to a dot and becomes target focused. When switching back to irons, is it possible/likely the shooter will become more target focused with irons rather than front sight focused? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Intheshaw1 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, Stafford said: Ok, makes sense. Sidebar: A shooter is front sight focused with irons. Makes the switch to a dot and becomes target focused. When switching back to irons, is it possible/likely the shooter will become more target focused with irons rather than front sight focused? Only one way to find out for yourself, try it. I just picked up a viper to throw on my G34. I shoot fine with iron sights but wanted to try CO just because. My thoughts about changing to a dot for a while is to reset the brain a bit and go back to focusing on fundamentals. I still plan to keep my G17 set up with irons for 3 gun so I'll personally see if a dot improves my irons game. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
-JCN- Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 (edited) I didn’t start really working at shooting until I started with a Shadow 2 in CO. Then put 10s of thousands of rounds on that system and got to “M.” Never really got good at irons, so this season I’m putting the work in calling shots with irons. Mainly because I don’t feel comfortable with the dot options on a P365 (Carry gun). The RMSc is pretty good but a little flimsy and I have had one drift zero. The polymer Romeo Zero feels like a cheap toy and doesn’t have auto adjust brightness. I have a 407k (still doesn’t auto-adjust brightness) that I haven’t mounted yet but I’m working on my non-RDS P365 competence instead. If I carried a larger gun, I’d have no problem with a 507c or RMR but would only do it with properly sighted back up irons. Edited October 14, 2020 by -JCN- Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 This has been a lot of trial and error with me as I've recently switched to a dot on my competition gun. With irons, I tried switching focus on the dominant eye, fiber optics, and shooting with 1.0 readers. The readers allowed me to focus on the front sight, but beyond 10 yards, I really didn't know if I made good hits. Without the readers, the front sight was blurry, but I could see if I made good hits. With the red dot, I've been able to ditch the readers and just shoot. The dot has also made me want to dry fire more than I ever did with irons. Why? Not sure. Maybe the feedback is better. I pick a spot and put the dot on it. I pull the trigger and try to keep the dot from moving around too much. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belus Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 hour ago, Stafford said: The readers allowed me to focus on the front sight, but beyond 10 yards, I really didn't know if I made good hits. Without the readers, the front sight was blurry, but I could see if I made good hits. One thing you'll pick up on these forums is the concept of Shot Calling: that the sights should tell you what your hits are. But this takes a lot of practice and concentration. If you're looking at the target you're going really slow. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 hours ago, -JCN- said: Mainly because I don’t feel comfortable with the dot options on a P365 (Carry gun). Just received the Holosun 507K and its durable for certain. Will the dot last without issue? I believe so because the research I have done has not indicated many issues with Holosun's RDS having issues. It was either this or the new Trijicon RMRcc. Since Trijicon addressed the battery tabs in the RMR Type 2 it does not seem to have the same issues. Only time will tell. The Holosun 507K came in at about the half the price of the Trijicon RMRcc and the adapter plate required to mount it. Also the Holosun 507K has incorporated rear notch to co-witness the front Iron site. I would not get hung up on this detail in that it only does a fair job of this. It is nice that the Holosun 507K and 407K both match the footprint of the P365 with no plate required and the install was super easy. Going to shoot my P365 as much as the current ammo shortage will allow with the Holosun 407K to put it through it paces. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 1 minute ago, belus said: One thing you'll pick up on these forums is the concept of Shot Calling: that the sights should tell you what your hits are. But this takes a lot of practice and concentration. If you're looking at the target you're going really slow. Yeah, the last couple of times I ran Production, I tried to run quickly. I put the sights on and fired and moved on. I picked up speed but was very inaccurate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boomstick303 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, belus said: One thing you'll pick up on these forums is the concept of Shot Calling: that the sights should tell you what your hits are. But this takes a lot of practice and concentration. If you're looking at the target you're going really slow. The skill in shot call is watching the location of the fiber or the dot when they actually lift as the gun fires, instead of seeing the location of the fiber or dot are when you pull the trigger. Two completely different things. Something I missed when I first was trying to understand shot calling. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 20 minutes ago, Stafford said: Yeah, the last couple of times I ran Production, I tried to run quickly. I put the sights on and fired and moved on. I picked up speed but was very inaccurate. If you’re calling your shots based off where the dot or front sight lifts into recoil from, you should never be surprised by the locations of the holes in the targets. If you aren’t doing that, and you attempt to go fast? The final scentence in your post is what happens, and you didn’t know it was occuring. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 2 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said: If you’re calling your shots based off where the dot or front sight lifts into recoil from, you should never be surprised by the locations of the holes in the targets. If you aren’t doing that, and you attempt to go fast? The final scentence in your post is what happens, and you didn’t know it was occuring. So, if you front sight or dot lifts above the A zone, then you can assume you hit in the A zone? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 @Stafford search for ‘Travis Tomasie Shot Calling’ on youtube. The demonstrated process is the same with a dot, it’s just even easier to see than with his irons in the video. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Stafford Posted October 14, 2020 Author Share Posted October 14, 2020 5 minutes ago, MemphisMechanic said: @Stafford search for ‘Travis Tomasie Shot Calling’ on youtube. The demonstrated process is the same with a dot, it’s just even easier to see than with his irons in the video. Will do. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
belus Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 39 minutes ago, Stafford said: So, if you front sight or dot lifts above the A zone, then you can assume you hit in the A zone? Maybe an easier way to think of it, without using the term lift, is remembering the silhouette of your sights against the muzzle flash. That alignment tells you where the bullet will hit before it even reaches the target, and with that knowledge you know whether a make-up shot is necessary or if you can move on with your stage plan. With practice and experience you will know how misaligned the sights can be in that moment to still get the points you want. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sax422 Posted October 14, 2020 Share Posted October 14, 2020 any concerns with the time turning on (and or adjusting) the dots or am i behind the tech curve and that's no longer needed? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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