Super Squaditis

[scroadkill]

On occasion Ill talk myself into squadding with a squad full of Ms and GMs with the hopes of learning a few things.. but generally only crash and burn...

riddle me this.. anyone else falling for this trap? is the pain ever worth it ?

 

[stick]

Nope!

What are you trying to learn?  Shot within you limits. Learning is done on the practice range.

[scroadkill]

55 minutes ago, stick said:

What are you trying to learn? 

more aggressive/creative/detailed stage plan ideas. It is always informative to hear them breakdown a stage... but painful to adopt said lesson.

[RJH]

Plenty to learn when shooting with better shooters, but as dirty harry said, "a man's got to know his limitations"

 

 

 

So learn what you can, but understand that all you learn may not be useful to you at this time 

[Hi-Power Jack]

13 hours ago, scroadkill said:

 1.  squad with Ms and GMs to learn a few things..

 

2.  but generally  crash and burn...
 

Those are entirely different objectives :

 

1.  You will learn a few things

 

BUT

 

2.  You probably won't be able to execute what you've learned that day

 

You will go home with new ideas, and practice a little differently, and eventually

come out a better shooter some other day.      

[stick]

4 hours ago, scroadkill said:

more aggressive/creative/detailed stage plan ideas. It is always informative to hear them breakdown a stage... but painful to adopt said lesson.

understandable!  Mike Seeklander once told us in a class.  You're not ready to shoot a stage until you can face uprange and shoot the stage in your head.

I do agree that better shooters have better stage breakdowns.

[shred]

6 hours ago, Hi-Power Jack said:

Those are entirely different objectives :

 

1.  You will learn a few things

 

BUT

 

2.  You probably won't be able to execute what you've learned that day

 

You will go home with new ideas, and practice a little differently, and eventually

come out a better shooter some other day.      

 

This.   If you try and follow what they do, you'll discover what you can't do.  If you're ok with that, it's a great way to learn what to work on.  If you just want to do well at the match, get on another squad with people closer to your level.

 

There is a caution though-- you need to take away the right lessons.  If you see some GM blast through an array and think "I need to pull the trigger faster", you might be getting the wrong conclusion versus "I need much better transitions"

 

[rowdyb]

Watch their match videos after the match. Then you can compare and contrast at your leisure. Seemingly everyone has match video you can watch if you are on ig, yt or fb.

 

Matches aren't for learning, they're the test. And like tests you should review how you did after they're done and not during. 

 

Focus on actions, not outcomes.

[stick]

2 hours ago, rowdyb said:

Watch their match videos after the match. Then you can compare and contrast at your leisure. Seemingly everyone has match video you can watch if you are on ig, yt or fb.

 

Matches aren't for learning, they're the test. And like tests you should review how you did after they're done and not during. 

 

Focus on actions, not outcomes.

Well Said!

[Eli_a]

On 6/28/2020 at 4:25 PM, rowdyb said:

Watch their match videos after the match. Then you can compare and contrast at your leisure. Seemingly everyone has match video you can watch if you are on ig, yt or fb.

 

Matches aren't for learning, they're the test. And like tests you should review how you did after they're done and not during. 

 

Focus on actions, not outcomes.

^This. I squaded with a bunch of Ms at a match and being a C shooter it did not go well to try to do what they were doing. I learned what I can’t do, and I got friendly with Mike that day. It is interesting to see how they break down a stage compared to how I did. 

[Orlandoech]

On 6/28/2020 at 2:25 PM, rowdyb said:

Watch their match videos after the match. Then you can compare and contrast at your leisure. Seemingly everyone has match video you can watch if you are on ig, yt or fb.

 

Matches aren't for learning, they're the test. And like tests you should review how you did after they're done and not during. 

 

Focus on actions, not outcomes.

 

Dude you're so helpful its ridic! Thanks! I also need to video myself more, I hate being on video though. I do try to study others as much as possible.

[Bakerjd]

I did this for a year and half mostly because the team infinity guys are always a good squad. You dont deal.with the lazy people stuff. And I was shooting with a good friend who happens to also be a GM, I'm a C, and riding with him so I just ended up on those squads. My very first match with all of them I totally crashed and burned. I think it was the buckeye blast in 2019. At lunch, Mike I think, came up to me and asked me why i was trying to impress everyone and go faster then I could really go. I told him I dodnt want to slow down the squad or irritate them all because I was IMO way slower. He laughed and told me to shoot MY match and not worry about anything else. I did a lot better after lunch. Then though the different majors I've shot with them I've had the occasional hey man looking better at this, or hey try this next time stuff which is always cool to here from those top level shooters. So for me it helped a good bit. But IMO only because I was lucky enough to shoot with the same core group of GM/M shooters multiple matches spanning over a long period of time. 

[j1b]

I'd like to attempt to offer a slightly contrarian view. 

 

I advocate for shooting with these groups. Even if, at first, you are intimidated or you aren't able to perform at their level. If anything shooting with them will help define your level, make you realize what you can and can't do, and cause you to focus on pure execution of your plan. 

 

To me there are two perspectives that are worth gaining:

1) How they shoot the stages. Execution. Speed and aggressiveness. Etc. etc. The mechanics of the match. And I do agree this can certainly be looked at on video but its part 2 that is much more important to me...

2) The conversations. The discussions. Either direct or indirect you'll get a peak into how they think. Why they do what they do. This isn't readily intuitive from a video, but if you watched someone do it I would say MOST of the elites in this game are more than happy to answer a few questions. Talk about strategy. Help however they can. This seems particularly true (in my experience) at club matches.

 

Many years ago I went to Idaho to shoot an Area 2 match. Two stages in I DQ's ... hammered a barricade dead in the middle. So I was out. I went to the hotel room and moped a bit. The next day I got up and went to the range. There was a super squad there with some mega great shooters and I asked if I could just tag along. Hang out. Listen to the conversations. They said yes, much to my surprise. What I learned just listening was amazing. And I didn't have to worry about "applying" it in my match. I was done. So it was a straight up learning session ... and it was invaluable.

 

Final comment (I know... I'm a long poster) - if you are crashing and burning with this crew then at some point you're going to have to figure that mental game out. So that, to me, is another reason to do it. There's some component of that pressure that is getting to you. No reason to not tackle that and get even better IMO.

 

J

[SGT_Schultz]

On 6/28/2020 at 8:02 AM, scroadkill said:

more aggressive/creative/detailed stage plan ideas. It is always informative to hear them breakdown a stage... but painful to adopt said lesson.

 

A match isn't the time to imitate others or try things you just saw/learned.  Try them in practice.

Edited February 16, 2021 by SGT_Schultz

[SGT_Schultz]

On 2/15/2021 at 1:58 AM, Bakerjd said:

I told him I dodnt want to slow down the squad or irritate them all because I was IMO way slower.

 

I've learned that most people use the slow shooters to relax a bit while the shooter finishes his stage.

 

Basically nobody cares.

[Norther]

I always prefer to shoot with better shooters. I find I’m more likely to shoot slower if I’m with a slower squad because I don’t feel pressed. You do have to know your limitations with much better shooters but that hasn’t been a real problem for me. 

[Bakerjd]

15 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

 

I've learned that most people use the slow shooters to relax a bit while the shooter finishes his stage.

 

Basically nobody cares.

Yep. 

[SGT_Schultz]

I think people who are intrinsically motivated do much better at this sport than those who are externally motivated.

[j1b]

4 hours ago, SGT_Schultz said:

I think people who are intrinsically motivated do much better at this sport than those who are externally motivated.

It's an interesting observation. To me I could safely say that I have observed that people intrinsically motivated certainly enjoy the sport more. That's very near the definition of intrinsic motivation. If you enjoy getting better, enjoy the crown, enjoy the sport for the sport then definitely that helps overall enjoyment.

 

Extrinsic motivation is a little harder to understand across the greats of this game. It is the spirit of competitiveness that likely drives this. Very few people excel at this game to the level that they earn an income that pays enough to sustain a reasonable living. So for the vast majority of participants the desire to do better almost can't be the "prize at the end of the road" Even looking at someone like Leatham who has made a living at this, winning another title does little for his resume these days. So I would guess winning for him is much more of an intrinsic motivation versus an extrinsic motivation. 

 

So the question could evolve to is winning, or competition for the sake of competing, an intrinsic or extrinsic motivation? At the club matches and Area matches I've shot of late there is literally no benefit to doing well outside of the value of doing well. 

 

It's an interesting comment to me. All of my comments above are initial thoughts, so it's something I will likely ponder more.