BigAm Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Shot a match last weekend, and the group in front of us (either LE or MIL I dont remember) besides doing other things, to slow the pace down...seemed to be doing things all on there own and interpreting rules as they saw fit. One thing our group noticed was on a table start they were leaving the pistol with the slide open...I didnt think this was a legal way to start a pistol on a USPSA stage. What would be the penalty for this? Procedural? Something harsher? I tried to look it up, but I couldn't find anything on that specifically. Thanks in advance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kraj Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 I would think it's no different than not starting in the correct start position. Fix it and shoot it again 8.1.3 Courses of fire may require ready conditions which are different to those stated above. In such cases, the required ready condition must be clearly stated in the written stage briefing. When a firearm Ready Condition requires a firearm be prepared with an empty chamber (or cylinder), the slide/bolt of the firearm must be fully forward (or the cylinder must be fully closed) and the hammer or striker must be fully down or fully forward, as the case may be, unless otherwise specified in the stage briefing. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MemphisMechanic Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Incorrect start position. RO should not start the shooter until the required start position is assumed by the shooter. If they do, reshoot. It doesn’t matter, as LEOs the invariably came in last place anyway. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 8, 2019 Share Posted June 8, 2019 Ready condition, not start position. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rowdyb Posted June 9, 2019 Share Posted June 9, 2019 The penalty as it were is a re shoot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAm Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 Very interesting. It was a cluster f*#k in that group the whole day... We would have had to make those guys go back and reshoot at least 2 stages I think. I also saw them starting a stage with there hand on the gun as well which is another no no. Guess thats what happens when you have a whole group of D and U class shooters. Thank you all for the replys! And thanks for finding the rule in the book for me as well! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RJH Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 3 minutes ago, BigAm said: Very interesting. It was a cluster f*#k in that group the whole day... We would have had to make those guys go back and reshoot at least 2 stages I think. I also saw them starting a stage with there hand on the gun as well which is another no no. Guess thats what happens when you have a whole group of D and U class shooters. Thank you all for the replys! And thanks for finding the rule in the book for me as well! Quote They was hard core gamers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 That’s the it doesn’t say we can’t crowd. Forgetting that the rule book is also there lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAm Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 Just now, RJH said: They was hard core gamers OH the best part is when the guy in our group with a CRO cert made them all stop and yelled at them for a bit about all the s#!t they were doing...I was cringing so hard I missed the part where he was talking about start positions...I also remembered they were all marines as well. What a f*#kin day that was! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OPENB Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Doesn’t matter what they did for a living, it’s a game with rules, some it appears they did not know. A squad of brand new guys should have never been left to run themselves. There should have been a seasoned guy with them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAm Posted June 10, 2019 Author Share Posted June 10, 2019 18 hours ago, OPENB said: Doesn’t matter what they did for a living, it’s a game with rules, some it appears they did not know. A squad of brand new guys should have never been left to run themselves. There should have been a seasoned guy with them. I agree with you totally. Part of the issues is they were all wearing there fancy shooting shirts, and were telling people they are part of a marine corps shooting team...I dont think anyone noticed there wasn't anyone higher than C among them all day. Someone should have checked in with them for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GunBugBit Posted June 10, 2019 Share Posted June 10, 2019 Marines are their own biggest fans, in case you hadn't noticed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezra650 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 Sounds like a failure on the MD to group 1 or 2 seasoned RO/CROs in the newbie squad. Haha the locked back slides at beginning of a match are always an easy way to pick out USPSA newbs. I believe GSSF did/does stipulate that guns be at slide lock when holstered Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sarge Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 hours ago, ezra650 said: Sounds like a failure on the MD to group 1 or 2 seasoned RO/CROs in the newbie squad. Haha the locked back slides at beginning of a match are always an easy way to pick out USPSA newbs. I believe GSSF did/does stipulate that guns be at slide lock when holstered Holstered ed guns slide lock scream “I have no idea what I’m doing” Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezra650 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 minute ago, Sarge said: Holstered ed guns slide lock scream “I have no idea what I’m doing” Yep. Gives off the "I just shot one GSSF match with my new glock and now I am here to go fast" look. Seriously though nothing a new shooters briefing can't handle and maybe some additional Q&A and 1 on 1 assistance. Everyone has to start somewhere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BigAm Posted June 11, 2019 Author Share Posted June 11, 2019 2 hours ago, ezra650 said: Yep. Gives off the "I just shot one GSSF match with my new glock and now I am here to go fast" look. Seriously though nothing a new shooters briefing can't handle and maybe some additional Q&A and 1 on 1 assistance. Everyone has to start somewhere. The main issue was that they didnt want to hear what we had to say. I think they thought we were giving them s#!t or something, but we really just tried to inform them of how it goes at ANY uspsa match. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ezra650 Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 36 minutes ago, BigAm said: The main issue was that they didnt want to hear what we had to say. I think they thought we were giving them s#!t or something, but we really just tried to inform them of how it goes at ANY uspsa match. Yeah I'm referencing to shooters before the match starts who don't know what's going on. These guys should have been grouped with some veteran shooters and RO/CROs. They probably also didn't want to admit they were new shooters to USPSA "muh military training" So their ego took priority lol. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nathanb Posted June 11, 2019 Share Posted June 11, 2019 1 hour ago, BigAm said: The main issue was that they didnt want to hear what we had to say. I think they thought we were giving them s#!t or something, but we really just tried to inform them of how it goes at ANY uspsa match. Then it becomes a match director issue Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 On 6/8/2019 at 4:37 PM, Kraj said: 8.1.3 Courses of fire may require ready conditions which are different to those stated above. In such cases, the required ready condition must be clearly stated in the written stage briefing. When a firearm Ready Condition requires a firearm be prepared with an empty chamber (or cylinder), the slide/bolt of the firearm must be fully forward (or the cylinder must be fully closed) and the hammer or striker must be fully down or fully forward, as the case may be, unless otherwise specified in the stage briefing. I have a question on this rule. It is on the RO test and I don't know how to answer it due to the last bit of the last sentace of the rule. "...unless otherwise specified in the stage briefing. " My read is that the WSB may stipulate a slide or hammer back. If not specific, then the default for an unloaded Ready Condition is slide down hammer down. Thoughts? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 1 minute ago, Flexmoney said: I have a question on this rule. It is on the RO test and I don't know how to answer it due to the last bit of the last sentace of the rule. "...unless otherwise specified in the stage briefing. " My read is that the WSB may stipulate a slide or hammer back. If not specific, then the default for an unloaded Ready Condition is slide down hammer down. Thoughts? I agree, if the WSB doesn't specifically spell out something beyond loaded or unloaded then the defaults for those conditions are the in force. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 39 minutes ago, Flexmoney said: I have a question on this rule. It is on the RO test and I don't know how to answer it due to the last bit of the last sentace of the rule. "...unless otherwise specified in the stage briefing. " My read is that the WSB may stipulate a slide or hammer back. If not specific, then the default for an unloaded Ready Condition is slide down hammer down. Thoughts? Kind of hard for a Revolver to have slide back though and hammer back I would not do for safety issues with a loaded Revolver. And I'd agree with your "read". On the OP, back in the day, long ago (early 1980's) as a fairly new competitor ran across some old PPC/Bullseye/LEO guys who would get very upset if you DIDN'T have the slide locked back while in the holster. They were never in a position to DQ me for not following their ideas and the usual competition crowd weren't buying it either. Luckily USPSA was finally formed and started setting the safety rules down to give us something to argue with the older hands. Simplified things greatly. Edited July 31, 2019 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 3 minutes ago, pskys2 said: Kind of hard for a Revolver to have slide back though and hammer back I would not do for safety issues with a loaded Revolver. And I'd agree with your "read". A what? Revolver? LOL... Revo is covered in the rule too. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pskys2 Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 (edited) 19 minutes ago, Flexmoney said: A what? Revolver? LOL... Revo is covered in the rule too. Yea, Yea I'm used to being that odd ball at matches. (I do compete with other guns too though), But to paraphrase the Klingon in Star Trek VI, You've not experienced Action Pistol until you've competed with a Revolver! It is a whole new world, and fun if you let it be. But alas, it is an acquired taste. https://video.search.yahoo.com/yhs/search?fr=yhs-symantec-ext_onb&hsimp=yhs-ext_onb&hspart=symantec&p=star+trek+quote+experience+shakesphere+in+original+klingon#id=1&vid=a60d82cf8a9ccc44101e33528e208d34&action=view Edited July 31, 2019 by pskys2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Flexmoney Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 J-frame in Steel challenge is the truely "Undiscovered Country". Good stuff. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MikeBurgess Posted July 31, 2019 Share Posted July 31, 2019 Luckily most MDs don't abuse the power the rule book grants them, you can put almost anything in a WSB as long as it doesn't break a specific rule, and there are lots of things you could do that would be horrible but not against the rules. worst case scenario, Start position unloaded firearm with action open submerged in bucket of mud, all ammunition to be used loose (not in magazine or speed loading device) in bucket of honey. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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