Right Hand / Left Hand Bias In Stage Design

[38superman]

I have noticed a trend lately that is a bit disturbing to me and I think it bears some discussion.

IPSC shooters are divided into two groups. Not by rule but by nature.

You are either left or right handed.

In the course of shooting around barricades and other obstacles, some stages will favor one group and disadvantage the other.

As a left handed shooter, I see no reason to complain about this.

Sometimes it works against me but sometimes it works in my favor.

However, it does disturb me that in some of the stages I have encountered lately, the bias was so exteme that it was next to impossible to shoot at certain targets with the stong hand.

One stage at nationals was particularly bad because the fault line coming off the barricade was at a very shallow angle forcing a leftie to reach way out and around to engage the target.

I made an off the cuff remark to the RO that about the only way I could shoot that target was to ricochet a round off the wall.

His reply was "tough sh*#. Theres nothing in the rule book about being left handed".

When shooting the stage I did manage to hit the target but almost fell in the process. The time I lost trying to recover my balance cost me.

My feeling is that if a stage is designed with a bias this exteme it becomes a safety issue.

There are some very general statements in the rule book that might apply to this but they are not specific enough to address this particular issue.

TLS

[shred]

As a lefty, I see this occasionally, though usually not prohibitively. If that was the case, I'd pull rule 2.1.6

2.1.6 Obstacles – Natural or created obstacles in a course of fire should

reasonably allow for variations in competitors’ height and physical

build and should be constructed to provide reasonable safety

for all competitors, match officials and spectators.

and 4.6.1

4.6.1 Range equipment must present the challenge fairly and equitably

to all competitors. ...

Handedness is clearly covered by 'physical build' and 'fair to all competitors'.

Far more often I see the only good reload spot is running to the right straight down the 180 and doors that are all set up for right handers.

99% of the time it's not malicious, it's because a lefty wasn't around when they set it up.

[SRT Driver]

I see it all of the time.

It works both ways. Since southpaws are in the minority, we have to work around it..but that is how it is with everything in general (notebooks etc) Many times it is impossible to design a neutral course of fire due to many range limitations so I don't complain about it.

On the other hand, lefties get very adept at moving "the opposite way" where many righties have difficulty in similar situations. Because of this, many lefties are more "ambi" than similar righties which works out in our favor. I've become pretty good at shooting weak hand around props etc.

[n2ipsc]

Far more often I see the only good reload spot is running to the right straight down the 180 and doors that are all set up for right handers.

99% of the time it's not malicious, it's because a lefty wasn't around when they set it up.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

As a southpaw, it is illustrative to hear the wailing and gnashing of teeth when one sets up a "mirror-reversed, 'normal'" course that imposes the same sort of thought processes on right-handers that us lefties deal with at every match...

Cries of "180 trap!" aboundeth...chaos, confusion, disharmony...my work here is finished...

[tobydog]

Cries of "180 trap!" aboundeth...chaos, confusion, disharmony...my work here is finished...

I like that statement!! As a lefty, I design courses as I'd like to see them shot, not taking into thought left vs right. Other leftys have whined, and I just tell them to shoot the thing, same as I get told by the rightys. I figure the course is my problem to figure out. If its a safety issue, then as the club safety officer, I have the right to change it until its safe for all to shoot. But I won't intentionally change one to make it more left/right friendly.

[Interceptor]

It's also a whole lot of fun to plow into right-hander after right-hander as you do your walkthrough in the opposite direction. Sometimes, I almost have to get aggressive to be able to get the same amount of time as others.

Lefty

[38superman]

As I stated when I started this thread, I have never complained about a stage design until I encountered one that forced me into a very unhappy choice.

1. Allow yourself to be forced into an extremely awkward off balance position and risk falling down with a hot weapon.

or

2. Shoot the target weak hand even though this was not part of the stage description or intent, and change hands (twice) with a hot gun while on the move.

I don't think its unreasonable to expect the following:

Stage designers should recognize that there are two groups of shooters based on strong hand/weak hand. Its a fact of life.

Almost any target will favor one group or the other...no problem.

However, all targets should be reasonably accessable to all shooters without anyone having to shoot backward and aim with a mirror.

TLS

[Flyin40]

Last weekend I shot a stage that you had to lean around the right side of the barricade and shoot the targets. There was a no shoot attached to the barricade. Right handers had no problem getting around the no shoot. I on the other hand I lost some time trying to shoot around the barricade. I wouldn't call this stage unfair because I had opportunities to engage those targets at different places. Regardless of how I shot the stage right handers had a big advantage. It just the way it goes. Theres stages where I get a big advantage. I don't think this is deliberate. If your right handed most don't think about lefties. Us lefties always think about how a right handed person will shoot a course when we set it up or design it. We are so used to everything being geared toward right handed people were able to evaulate it both ways.

Flyin40

[wide45]

I'm not a southpaw, but I almost always walk through a stage the other direction once or twice. It can be a better way on some stages.

[kevin c]

I've done stages with extreme leans. I actually try to be fair by being twice as evil and designing in a similar lean to the opposite side

When I was in my prime I once did a stage that had restricted access ports so narrow that you could only use one eye, the nondominant one for righties - to make it fair, I did the same port for lefties on the other side of the stage

So much for being politically correct

[LPatterson]

The MD or RM should review all stages to ensure that they represent equal challenges to all shooters. All stages designers should do the same thing before submitting a COF.

Since I normally help set up stages at local matches I check the stage for right & left handers to ensure there is not an unfair disadvantage. A recent match had a 90 degree trap for right handers that I did not see until after the first shooter almost broke the 90. As the dedicated RO for that stage I included a warning to all shooters about that potential as I read the walkie. But it never should have been set up that close.

[Tom Mainus]

I am left handed and I am the IPSC director at our club. And being a carpenter, I am in charge of all props that have to be built at our club. When you come to our club, all of our doors have the knob on the left side and you have to pull them towards you to open. My way of a little sweet revenge over all of the rightys. If they bitch, I tell them they can start building all the props and the discussion usually stops right there.

Tom

[38superman]

When you come to our club, all of our doors have the knob on the left side and you have to pull them towards you to open. My way of a little sweet revenge over all of the rightys. If they bitch, I tell them they can start building all the props and the discussion usually stops right there.

I like your attitude. Would love to shoot at your club some day.

T

[rhgunguy]

At my clubs classifier last week we had a neat stage. The box was directly behind hard cover the width of the box. On either side 7-10 yards away were 3 targets with NS in between. You had to engage t1-t3 on one side, reload and engage t4-t6. Now I have shot around cover like this and for me it is a pain to shoot around the left side. So when I slammed home the mag, my left hand just kept coming up and my right hand took the supporting role. I don't know how much it helped, but I felt more comfortable shooting the left side lefthanded and comfortable is confidant.

[Right2Bear]

I am also a lefty and see this quite a bit. I'm not sure it is done intentionally, I think that since most people are right handed, including the stage designer, they just design the stage as to what appears 'normal' to them.

I've had people comment that my stages are more lefty friendly and I don't do it intentionally - usually.

I do think this needs to be looked at more closely. Granted, it can work as an advantage at times, but I think it's fair to say that the vast majority of the time, the stages favor right handed shooters. This is just something that is good to discuss and remind the stage designers that not everyone is right handed.

I agree though - when the right handed shooters see something that obviously favors a lefty, they are often quick to point it out.

Edited May 26, 2006 by Right2Bear

[sargenv]

I think that it is true that we tend to build stages that tend toward right handed shooters. I received a compliment about designing a stage that was more left handed friendly than the rest of the stages. Honestly I didn't design the stage in that direction, it just kind of happened that way. But I can say that I tend to balance my stages out so that they can be attacked from several different perspectives. Sometimes I hit it on the head, other times like the last case, things worked out that way.

Vince

[DMH]

I may be a little weird but as a lefty I shoot most stages like a righty anyway because I see it as an advantage to be as ambidextrous as possible in this game. As long as I can reach it I can do it, and the righties I squad with here always notice that I can shoot right to left/left to right equally.

Train on what's hard to do, make your weakness a strength.

[mike4045]

Shooting stages that are more bias to one side or the other never bothered me when I shot with iron sights. When I switched to open it kicked my butt when looking for the dot, if I tried to shoot it weak hand. Lots of practice with it and I am more comfortable doing it. It all goes to what I was told when started about practicing everything, but really practice what you are not comfortable with.

[SinistralRifleman]

I find that at any given major 3 Gun Match; SMM3G, RM3G, MGM, etc I always need to transition to my right side when shooting shotgun and rifle multiple times through out the match to actually be able to engage many of the targets, usually when shooting through ports. It sucks but I just deal...being a somewhat ambidextrous shooter is a good skill to have.

I do wish they set things up so that right handed shooters had to switch sides more often. It is funny watching right handed people lean way out around barricades to the point of almost falling over, when simply transitiong to the other hand would have been easier.

Edited June 1, 2006 by SinistralRifleman

[Matt Griffin]

I just finished shooting the KY state match, and while I didn't have any particular problems, one stage had a gun on a counter that had to be grabbed, and a swinging countertop that had to be manipulated (think how a bar has a swinging countertop for the bartender to go in and out.) So while everyone else was able to grab the pistol with their strong hand while throwing the counter with their weak hand, I had to come out of surrender, throw the top, and then grab the pistol. I don't think it hurt too much, but I'd have to compare splits to find out.

Later in the stage there was a small door to be opened in the wall. Again, it swung against my strong hand, so I had to grab it at the far right end where there was no handle with my gun in low carry, rather than be able to open it weak while moving in as soon as the door started to open.

Call it what you will, but it does add up. And don't get me going on trying to buy holsters.

H.

[Flexmoney]

I have always noticed that left-handed shooters seem to be safer...they are more muzzle-aware. And, generally, lefties are pretty good shooters as well.

[gino_aki]

We have one left handed shooter in our club but if you saw one of our matches you'd swear that we set it up especially for him. If anything, I think our stage designers try for both left and right movement in the same stage, along with forward stuff. We try some backward moving stuff too (tough on the R.O.'s, but they realize the "fun/challenge" factor). Mostly I notice that our designers set their stages with the shooting bay we have in mind, (40 yds wide, 100 deep) so they aren't hampered with physical limitations when dreaming up their twisted schemes.

[itento]

Our local club's best shooter (a GM) is left handed and as the match director, I make every effort to ensure all stages are symetrical. Our 1 big field course bay is laterial and most stages we run on it have starting points at either left or right sides. On lateral bays, this is a safety issue and helps to ensure no 180 degree breaks during laterial movement.

[tightloop]

I don't think hand preference makes a difference concerning safety, muzzle awareness or shooting ability...

and the fact that I prefer to pick my nose with my right hand does not influence my opinion at all...

Edited June 16, 2006 by tightloop

[Singlestack]

and the fact that I prefer to pick my nose with my right hand does not influence my opinion at all...

That information might influence my opinion on shaking your hand when we meet