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Primer choices. Rifle,pistol,magnum...?

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Hello again open shooters. In working up loads for my .38 Super open pistol I have been using CCI regular pistol primers. Making approximately 174 PF with VVn105,VV3n38 and AA7 there is no evidence of primer edge flattening or firing pin cratering. Are there advantages,other than trying to reduce these two concern areas,to using rifle or magnum pistol primers such as more consistent powder burn and/or cleaner end results? My deviation on the Chrono has been what I consider inside very acceptable averages. Thanks.

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5 minutes ago, Steve RA said:

Sounds like you are "good to go".

Thanks Steve. It seems to get rather dirty quickly with any of the mentioned powders. I didn't know if a hotter primer would help solve that.

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I use pistol magnum but can’t say I’ve ever compared anything to the standard Pistol primers I was using. Fed magnum were available last time I stocked up so I bought 30k.

 

Not sure it makes a lot of difference. May try rifle next time if they are better.

 

 

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Hello: You are using some of the best 38 powders out there. I would try small rifle and also the magnum pistol primers since you may be able to reduce your powder drop a little and get a better burn. I find Magnum pistol primers are hotter than small rifle primers when I have chronoed them over the years. That is with all Winchester primers. Thanks, Eric

Edited by Aircooled6racer

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7 minutes ago, Aircooled6racer said:

Hello: You are using some of the best 38 powders out there. I would try small rifle and also the magnum pistol primers since you may be able to reduce your powder drop a little and get a better burn. I find Magnum pistol primers are hotter than small rifle primers when I have chronoed them over the years. That is with all Winchester primers. Thanks, Eric

Thanks Eric. I have some Magnum pistol I'll try running them over the Chrono to see if there's a difference (whenever it gets above freezing outside,lol). Is there an advantage to getting the same PF dropping the power charge but using a hotter primer if it chronos that way?

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Back when it was hard to find primers, I used what ever I could get my hands on including SPM.  I feel that, for the most part primers are interchangeable.  Having said that, I found that I could use 0.1 grain less powder and get the same velocity using SPM primers.  

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You might try SRMP and see if that cleans it up any.  I use Tula SRMP in everything I load (9mm, SP .45ACP and .223) but you can't get them presently.  I use Clays (Australian) in the 9mm and .45.  Minor in 9mm and Major in .45 (course you can't get Australian Clays either).

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43 minutes ago, Aric said:

when it was hard to find primers, I used what ever I could get. 

 

Got great deal(s) on Russian primers back when there weren't any primers to be found,

and have been using them ever since.

 

A primer is a primer - it goes pop and makes the powder go boom …..    :) 

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In some guns with low trigger pull Magnum primers might not work reliably.  In both of mine I get anywhere from 5% to 10% FTI, which is annoying in practice, and totally unacceptable in a match. 

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2 hours ago, Foxbat said:

In some guns with low trigger pull Magnum primers might not work reliably.  In both of mine I get anywhere from 5% to 10% FTI, which is annoying in practice, and totally unacceptable in a match. 

True. I have mine pistol with a Brazos 15 lb mainspring and Dawson extended firing pin. 2.5# break weight. It has proven reliable with Winchester and Federal rifle primers

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8 hours ago, vgdvc said:

Hello again open shooters. In working up loads for my .38 Super open pistol I have been using CCI regular pistol primers. Making approximately 174 PF with VVn105,VV3n38 and AA7 there is no evidence of primer edge flattening or firing pin cratering. Are there advantages,other than trying to reduce these two concern areas,to using rifle or magnum pistol primers such as more consistent powder burn and/or cleaner end results? My deviation on the Chrono has been what I consider inside very acceptable averages. Thanks.

 

I have been using small pistol magnum primers for a long time. What I found was that with slower burning powders like AA#7 & AA#9 I get a more consistent ignition and better burn from the powder. (Less unburnt powder out the muzzle)

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1 hour ago, Dranoel said:

 

I have been using small pistol magnum primers for a long time. What I found was that with slower burning powders like AA#7 & AA#9 I get a more consistent ignition and better burn from the powder. (Less unburnt powder out the muzzle)

That does make sense. Magnum loads usually have large capacity of slower burning powder ,so.......

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BTW: my 1911s are set up with a standard length, titanium firing pin, Wilson Extra power Firing pin spring, titanium hammer strut, super light hammer and a 25# mainspring. Never had issues with light strikes or failure to fire. I also don't have problems with primer smears and broken firing pins.

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For primers unless your shooting glocks id say stay away from regular federal small . pistol. They’re just to soft. Any other should be fine. I had/have 20k of them and when they’re done I won’t be buying them again. They’re necessary with glocks and light springs, which is what i shot for years. Now since moving to 2011s there’s no need. The federal and 9 major they flatten so bad, like they couldn’t get any flatter. Then I load up the same recipe with either win spp or even federal small rifle and the primers look totally fine. No pressure signs. I even had some pierced with regular fed Spp. 

 

Personally I’m only going to buy SRP from now on for 9 major. I like either fed, win, or cci. I’m sure other brands would be fine too. 

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I have used cci SPP with great success. 

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On 1/11/2019 at 8:20 PM, Dranoel said:

BTW: my 1911s are set up with a standard length, titanium firing pin, Wilson Extra power Firing pin spring, titanium hammer strut, super light hammer and a 25# mainspring. Never had issues with light strikes or failure to fire. I also don't have problems with primer smears and broken firing pins.

 

#25 is pretty strong, I think I have far less.  Mines are just as they came from SVI, I did not replace anything there.  Trigger pull is in the 1.75lb range.  I don't mind this situation, because as long as I don't use magnum primers, they work 100%.  I use WInchester small pistol, and they work perfect.

 

There is also great variation between small rifle primers.  Winchesters work fine, but S&B give me REAL problem - more than 50% FTI. 

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So is there a general consensus as to within the same brand whether rifle or magnum are harder? Or is it variable


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16 minutes ago, Foxbat said:

S&B give me REAL problem - more than 50% FTI. 

Do you think it’s your gun or the primers causing this?  If you drop the hammer a second time, do they go off? 

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On 1/11/2019 at 4:36 PM, Dranoel said:

 

I have been using small pistol magnum primers for a long time. What I found was that with slower burning powders like AA#7 & AA#9 I get a more consistent ignition and better burn from the powder. (Less unburnt powder out the muzzle)

 

What brand SPM primers have you used ?

 

I'm wanting to try SPM with my AA7-115 loads, but don't want ignition problems either (2011's with 17# mainsprings). My cache of CCI SPP's is nearing the bottom and will need to be replenished soon.

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4 hours ago, Aric said:

Do you think it’s your gun or the primers causing this?  If you drop the hammer a second time, do they go off? 

 

Yes,, they do go off.  I am not concerned about this, as I mentioned both my SVI's are set that way, and as long as I use something like Win primers, they work 100%.  So I don't see any reason to replace the main spring.

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4 hours ago, racer-x said:

 

What brand SPM primers have you used ?

 

I'm wanting to try SPM with my AA7-115 loads, but don't want ignition problems either (2011's with 17# mainsprings). My cache of CCI SPP's is nearing the bottom and will need to be replenished soon.

 

I usually use Federal or CCI but I have used some Winchester.

 

Keep in mind, your stock mainspring was not intended to throw the hammer hard enough to set off primers with harder caps than standard pistol primers. So if you go to magnum or rifle primers you need to make adjustments to get reliable ignition.

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2 minutes ago, Dranoel said:

 

I usually use Federal or CCI but I have used some Winchester.

 

Keep in mind, your stock mainspring was not intended to throw the hammer hard enough to set off primers with harder caps than standard pistol primers. So if you go to magnum or rifle primers you need to make adjustments to get reliable ignition.

That may be true, but many manufacturers use the same cups in their small pistol and small pistol magnum primers. Winchester is one of those

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37 minutes ago, GrumpyOne said:

That may be true, but many manufacturers use the same cups in their small pistol and small pistol magnum primers. Winchester is one of those

 

That would explain why the Winchesters flattened more than Federal and CCI. I'll make a note of that in my reloading notebook and I may experiment with some different brands. But Federal and CCI have both served me well with no problems so it's sort of pointless for me to go looking for something "better".

 

I just don't believe in compromising on my ammo because of a $6 spring in the gun. But the gun was built with all this in mind. When you change the mainspring there are other factors to consider and other adjustment that need to be made.

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Here are the first results of my primer comparison between CCI SPP (500), SPM (550) and SRP (400).

Objectives are to quantify differences between primer performance with all else being as close to identical as possible:

  • velocity (PF)
  • consistency of velocity (ES & SD)
  • primer flattening
  • clean burn (harder to quantify)

chrono results - see bottom 6 entries for primer comparison:

image.thumb.png.c3b0e9b4cd50f41718614aa65a65cffa.png

 

 

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