40S&W PCC....are you nuts!!!!

[TRUBL]

So, it's something I am playing with.....why???? What is the number ONE issue for PCC? Reliability......we are all getting there with 9mm, but a lot of people still struggle.

I did a 45ACP PCC this last summer and the thing has been running like a sewing machine.....it will feed, has never failed to feed and I've now got over 5K rounds thru it. And.....it's a put together gun, in fact, we now have two of those in the shop and they both are flawless. 

 

     What we noticed right off is that with the 45, it is impossible to hit the back of the barrel......period.....if it comes out of the magazine, it is going in the hole. 9mm on the other hand.....well, you get what I mean. Now, yes, we've done ramped barrels, extreme ramped barrels and we've got the 9mm to feed pretty well for anyone that buys those parts....and people using JP, or Lead Star, or (insert your fav here). But lots of people just plain old have issues feeding 9mm.

 

     So what if the 40S&W acted more like the 45acp......what if it was impossible for that round to hit the back of the barrel? What if you could use ANY lower (sorry, I mean NFA) and if the round comes out of the mag, it goes in the hole. Would that be a HUGE deal in regards to reliability?

 

     I know.....I know.....a lot of people are gonna come out.....but 9mm is so soft, 9mm is cheap, what about minor PF, magazine capacity and all the BS. None of that means diddly if you can't get thru a match with out jams.

 

I am NOT a real fan of the 40 by any means.....but I have been playing with one, we had some issues at first on the chamber entry (like we did with the 45ACP)......but now that we have that sorted out.....it's working, it's actually smooth with our recoil system and most important.....it will feed!! we've only been running factory ammo, so we know we can get it to shoot softer. But I mean.....we are using an NFA lower with what has to be the sloppiest magazine fit in the universe......and rounds come out the mag and go in the hole and the gun goes bang!! FYI.....this same lower, when a 9mm upper is on it.....WILL NOT FUNCTION.

 

Magazines are not an issue.....we'll get 45-53 rounders for sure with factory mags and extensions.

Factory ammo.....while more than 9mm, it's not much more and I am willing to bet that most people that are USPSA shooters.....can reload for 40, even though they may not have for a while.

 

I'm not really seeing a down side to this IF, a guy can throw parts together and not have to worry about reliability

Edited December 14, 2018 by TRUBL

[bwikel]

Getting a head start on a potential PCC major division I see........  Hopefully it would allow 9 major 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I am building one right now for my QC10 lower. It will use Glock mags and should be ready to test next week once I get a Glock 40 magazine. I have the 16" barrel, Matrix side charge upper receiver and bolt. I also have to decide which handguard to use. I have lots of brass and bullets so I think it should be fun to shoot it. Thanks, Eric

Edited December 14, 2018 by Aircooled6racer

[HoMiE]

Insert Capt Picard meme here —>

 

 

[Gary H.]

LOL, I've been pondering a 357 Sig in a PCC. I'd love to see these more common

[Patrick Scott]

If its(40 S&W) easy for the uneducated to throw together with "what ever parts" and it runs. It will sell and its not a bad idea. A good one really.

It will not however be the most popular among the top USPSA PCC shooters. Which really doesnt matter. 

 9X19 guns run now for those educated enough to buy the proper parts. 

[Blaster]

Tell me more about your 45 PPC, how is the  recoil  compared to 9mm

[revoman]

Olympic Arms use to make AR’s in all different types of pistol calibers. You will run across one every once in awhile. Right know there is a 10mm on GunBroker. 

Edited December 15, 2018 by revoman

[dlightning]

Minor PF in .40?  It is softer than a 9 from experience.  I shot .40 in minor in production a couple of years back.  I am intrigued.  Is the increase in reliability coming from the size of the round?  

[mmlook]

if you build a ULW .40sw complete upper

I will buy it.

Dont forget to throat the barrel a bit.

Now we need to find someone who will make glock mags that can take 1.200" OAL rounds
 

[Whitefish]

4 hours ago, mmlook said:

4 hours ago, mmlook said:

Now we need to find someone who will make glock mags that can take 1.200" OAL rounds

The factory 10mm mags for a Glock 20/40 can easily be used to load 40 at 1.200" OAL, but the issue will be that is a large frame Glock. That could be an issue in mag fit dimensions for a PCC. I have seen several Glock 20's converted to 40 so that the shooter can load longer than would be possible with the small frame 40 Glocks like the 22 and 35.
 

 

[TRUBL]

13 hours ago, dlightning said:

Minor PF in .40?  It is softer than a 9 from experience.  I shot .40 in minor in production a couple of years back.  I am intrigued.  Is the increase in reliability coming from the size of the round?  

CORRECT!!!......the bigger diameter!!! Think about this.....in basic numbers.....the round is .40, the barrel in that area is 1.00.......1.0 - .40 = .60, take .60 and you end up with .30" wall......now, you also have a chamfer (or lead in).......make that generous enough and the center of the bullet (especially a round nose)......could never hit the back of the barrel. And if it can never hit the back of the barrel.....it is only hitting the chamfer leading into the chamber. And because the chamber is actually bigger than .40, the wall thickness is less than .30"

 

 

SOOOOOOO......if the lead in is done right, the round will come out of the magazine and only go one place....IN THE HOLE. What I've learned from the 45acp which is even MORE forgiving in this area is that I could use the korean KCI mags with 100% success. AND......guess who makes a 31 round mag for the 40SW round? (BTW, a 9mm mag will only work if you modifiy the front end and the feed lips.

 

And correct.......I've found shooting 40SW at minor load to be very soft......never compared to 9mm, but I would tend to agree with your assessment. 

 

Interesting thought on 10MM magazines........I do have a QC10 lower that I use for 45ACP (so it is a large frame, advertised for 45acp/10mm)........I mmmmmmmmight have to see how 10MM magazines would work for 40SW......hadn't thought of that. The only issue there, is that right now......all the extensions for 9mm mags will fit the 40sw mags......they will NOT fit the 10mm mags.

Edited December 16, 2018 by TRUBL

[Whitefish]

Arredondo makes a +4 mag extension specifically for the Glock 20 and 40 10mm mags. My understanding is that the latest spring and follower for the 10mm mags are slightly different than those used in the large frame Glock .45 acp mags, so Arredondo has this extension (with longer spring) specific to the 10mm mags. https://www.arredondoaccessories.com/product/glock-base-pad-spring-type-20-40-2/

[Norther]

Interesting to think about. Pick up a QC10 large frame Glock lower, a .40 upper, and a .45 upper. Use the Taccom splice to splice a G20 magazine to a G21 mag.  Swap uppers, use the same lower and magazines for either caliber. Not the best for PCC but an interesting idea nonetheless, if it would work. 

[TRUBL]

SO we've been shooting the 40SW upper for about a week now.......using Winchester 165 and 180 grain ammo, it's actually been shooting fairly soft.....softer than we thought it would using major power factor ammo. We've also been shooting some reloaded ammo that is in the 145-150 PF range and it's been a dream using our 3 stage recoil system with a short stroke kit.

 

For magazines, we got some of the factory 22 round magazines and some KCI 31 round mags and one of those has our extreme extension on it making a 50 some round mag, but we've only been loading 40 rounds into it.

 

The upper has been flawless......the barrel is a standard style 8" barrel (extended to be 16" legal) with no feed ramp, however I did spin it on a lathe to enhance and polish up the feed cone to a mirror finish like I always do. Yes, I can say that if the round comes out of the magazine......it has no where else to go but in the chamber......no hitting the back of the barrel at all.

 

Is this viable for USPSA???? mmmmmmaybe.........it's been drop dead reliable and this is with a POS New Frontier Lower!! My lower of choice should we continue this project is going to be a Lead Star.......but we also love the QC10 lowers. I do have a 'large' frame QC10 lower that I use for 45ACP......so getting few 10mm glock mags are something to do in the future, connecting them to KCI 45acp mags for extended 40+ round sticks.

 

Tim

Edited December 21, 2018 by TRUBL

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I will be putting my 40 upper together this week. I still need to get some Glock 40 magazines. I think this would be a great all around setup for everything you can think of. Thanks, Eric

[TRUBL]

Look at it this way.......the majority of USPSA shooters have shot limited at some point in their life, probably have reloading dies for it too........I'm thinking more and more that 40SW makes a lot of sense.......no we are not gonna talk about 'major'.......a guy can do minor very well with 40sw.

 

ALSO.......I'm pretty sure that a full 16" barrel is probably a complete waste of time.......if we do 40, we'll do 8" of some sort......mmmmmmmmaybe

Edited December 21, 2018 by TRUBL

[dlightning]

Make it and they (we) will buy it.  Reloading for it will not be the issue.  Why not a 16”barrel or why 8? 

 

Is magazine capacity the only major issue?  

[2Alphamikenoshoot]

Sounds awesome. My buddy made a 357 PCC. Thing is sick. Suppressed too. He brought it out hog hunting the other day. Had no issues [emoji869]


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[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I am going the 16" barrel route. I will be running reloads through mine. I think Tim is going to use factory ammo on his PCC with a welded on tube. The 40 should be a good hog rifle as well with some nasty bullets. Thanks, Eric

Edited December 25, 2018 by Aircooled6racer

[TRUBL]

From what I am seeing.......with factory ammo.....you mmmmmmmmmight see at max 100fps difference between a 8" and 16" barrel. My preference is going to be for a lighter barrel with a little snappier comeback. YMMV

[gdcguns]

I have built both a 8.5" and a 16" AR40 PCC. Never shot either one over a chrono because I shoot factory ammo. If I can, I'll try and make it out to the range this week and get some chrono readings for both uppers.  I'll post them here. 

[Aircooled6racer]

Hello: I have everything now for the build except the comp I need to make. The ETS 30rd magazines arrived today for the 40. The base pad angle is not the same as the 9mm magazines so I am not sure what base pads to try with them to get the capacity up to 36-40 rounds. I may just try some +5-6 base pads and see if the angle will be a problem. Thanks, Eric

[TRUBL]

I went with KCI mags from gun mag warehouse........they run great!! Same angle as the 9mm magazines.

A lot of people say that a brake does nothing for 9mm and I believe that is debatable.........however, for 40?.....even less effective......especially at minor

[Aircooled6racer]

Tim: I would agree on the muzzle breaks shooting minor in a PCC. I don't run one at all on my AR9. I may just make a thread protector for the 40 as well. Thanks, Eric