News From The Equator

[Lee Dimaculangan]

haha sorry for no update on the juniors - its been one real busy week

as far as i know (my calculator) this is how the juniors finished and will be shooting the shootoffs in approximately 8 hours!

1. chris tilley (usa)

2. bj norris (usa)

3. kc eusebio (team usa)

4. brad balsley (team usa)

5. emile obriot (team france)

6. nicolas blum (team ecuador)

7. lee dimaculangan (usa)

8. maximillian wiegand (team germany)

[kraut]

+1!

My opinion on his teammates reaction: When I´ve been in the states first time I wondered how correct and polite everybody was. "Get what You pay for" - no cheating at all. People have different manners pending on the place they live or grew up.

Imo the problems in PD became serious when competitors where permitted to use guns that where only available to selected/sponsored shooters while not a single sample has had been delivered to distributors.

Kraut

[CzechM8]

I can see both sides of this pretty easy.

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

+1

However, any name-calling is still inexcusable.

Julie had a right to file the protest when she had a feeling the gun was illegal. No question about that. However (call me cynical), I have no illusions about the timing. Please don't tell me no one had doubted the legality of that gun for the six days before the last stage...But it's a part of the game, I guess.

And then again, I may be completely wrong here.

The sad thing is that this will probably leave a bitter taste to Adam's result (whether a victory or a top three finish) for a while, but I hope shooters are reasonable enough not to let this evolve into a "cheaters" vs. "crybabies" argument.

[BigDave]

Hello All!

As to my timing for the protest since this seems to be of some dispute. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

You did the right thing, period. I think we all show up in this sport assuming that we're all following the rules - it is a given. If someone noticed something similar about Dave's (either one) gun, I'd expect them to do the same thing. There isn't a damn thing wrong with making sure the rules are being followed - especially by the pending world champion. We wouldn't want a bogus one, would we?

[ipscron2000]

Julie - There is nothing wrong with what you did. Enjoy the rest of your trip.

[Ben Stoeger]

I get the impression that there was quite a bit of discussion of this guys gun at the match, but then only one person had the stones to do something about it.

Later,

Ben

[shred]

I think in a case like the WS, the match officials ought to automatically pull the top 3 or 4 competitors pistols immediately after the last stage and tear them down.. that way there is no question and none of this sort of issue.

Bitching at somebody because you proved they had a legitimate win? That´s odd.

[RTJ]

Bottom line, I am sorry I have disappointed some but I believe in following rules and overall sportsmanship. 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Julie,

I don't think you have anything to be sorry about - sounds like you did everything in a courteous and professional manner. You have rights as a fellow competitor, and I'm glad to see you stood up and officially questioned what it sounds like so many were just talking about! You do us US ladies proud

Enjoy the rest of your stay!

Rebecca

[Jasonub]

not legal obviously. no one can grind so much material in the dustcover using bare skin on the fingers.

btw, we love you julie!

[BigDave]

not legal obviously. no one can grind so much material in the dustcover using bare skin on the fingers.

btw, we love you julie!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Yeah, someone better tell CZ that they have weak alloy. I mean, look what just skin wear and tear can do to one of their pistols!!! Hell, they're lucky those guns aren't going ka-boom right and left!!!

[Jasonub]

eerw and eric i posted your pictures to ipsc global to see what they can say about it. Ill remove it if you mind though

[Nemo]

Yeah, someone better tell CZ that they have weak alloy.  I mean, look what just skin wear and tear can do to one of their pistols!!!  Hell, they're lucky those guns aren't going ka-boom right and left!!!

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

BigDave, this Czech kids have very, VERY TOUGH skin!

M8?

[Hey QuicksDraw!]

I didn't SEE the gun like David O says so I should keep my wasn't there big mouth shut, (yea, like that ever stopped me), but from the picTure it LooKs like something other than skin has been rubbing on that dustcover (scoop).

How can you have the factory rep be in on the discussion.... that's like asking Enzo if a Ferrari part meets the rules. "Of course it does!"

I like Shreds idea of tearing down the winners guns. They inspect the cars in every type of racing I can think of. They check the bullets at the chrono why not routinely inspect the gun.

Julie did the right thing+1

[kraut]

@CZ shooters: wash Your hands on a regular basis

[Paladin]

I have had others handle issues for me, and it is not that I am guilty, it is that I can't be bothered...

Let the committee carry out its mandate, that's how the system work and its what WE have built.. it is not perfect. but what is???..at the same time we strive for continuous improvement.

There are more appropriate 'forums' later to take this up if the competitors feel that strongly..

On a separate note, I think the Production rules are too tight, my personal carry gun (G19) could not compete in Production since I have FOs on it, it has a grip plug and I have shaved under the trigger guard, not to gain any competitive advantage but so my finger can fit in the groove!!

[Tengu]

It seems to me that Julie acted entirely correctly in filing the arbitration as she did. The only inappropriate behaviour I've seen from this vantage point is the actions of some of Adam's associates.

BTW, Julie, I was already +1

I also wanted to add that Dave Sevigny's win this year at the Lim10 nationals using a near-stock Glock, kydex holster and mag pouches against most of the top iron-sight shooters in the world with their race gear and beautifully gunsmithed STIs, SVs, etc. was a truly memborable performance and one that proved that it is the man or woman behind the gun and not the equipment that wins matches.

On a brighter note, congrats to the US men's junior shooters! You guys shot an awesome match

[99gski]

Hi Everyone!

I want to make it clear that I have no idea whether the gun in the picture is the same but it was not the dustcover I thought was questionable for the pistol he used here. It was the area under the trigger guard, the same place top Open Gurus grind away to get a higher grip to control recoil.

I wanted to see the pistol and take a picture so that I could address this issue after the match with IPSC. What I did see was what was visible in the holster. (Fabulous holster, I might add!!! ) I was treated poorly and they made me feel as if they had no respect for me as a person or competitor. Maybe they don't.

If someone posts a picture of what I saw, I will post to confirm it. I love the idea of the gun breakdown too for the top 3-5. There were no forms to check serial #'s, mag and holster placement or stickers to mark approved equipment here. I hope its back in Bali too.

Thanks again!!!

All the best,

julie

[Tengu]

I also wanted to add that Dave Sevigny's win this year at the Lim10 nationals using a near-stock Glock, kydex holster and mag pouches against most of the top iron-sight shooters in the world with their race gear and beautifully gunsmithed STIs, SVs, etc. was a truly memborable performance and one that proved that it is the man or woman behind the gun and not the equipment that wins matches.

I also wanted to mention Julie's equally awesome performance winning the lady's Lim10 title this year with her Glock shooting MINOR- but I thought I'd put it separate 'cause I didn't see her holster or mag pouches

[CzechM8]

BigDave, this Czech kids have very, VERY TOUGH skin! 

M8? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm ... errrr ... sure, that must be it!

Strangely, though, the discussion has strayed from what Julie posted about. If I'm reading her post correctly, she talks more about the attitude she got than about the gun itself. She's saying: 'I felt the gun was illegal. I had the right to file a protest and I did. The protest and the gun in question were considered and a decision was made. Case closed - I don't really like the decision but I respect it.' And I respect Julie for taking it that way. What bothers me more is the animosity towards her that the protest started. Reactions like that are unacceptable, in my book, in the heat of the match or not.

What I find surprising is that the same people who talk in their replies about playing by the rules question a decision that was (and nothing indicates otherwise) taken in accordance with the rules. Not to mention that most of us are sitting thousands of miles away from Ecuador, making comments based on an old crappy picture (btw, I also think the gun in the picture looks weird).

Although I shoot Production, I don't like the Production rules and their interpretation too much. But they're what we have.

Oh, just for the record, I shoot the Glock 17 and Adam is not a buddy of mine

[Kevin Kline]

Doesnt IPSC Production rules state a 5lb DA first shot minimum? If so and no one was checking guns, how do they know everyone doesnt have 1.5lb triggers??? Anyway, the kid can obviously shoot, but lets make sure everyone plays by the rules. A CZ factory rep checking HIS CZ sponsored shooters gun at the arbitration???? "No way Arbitration Committee, this gun is all factory with no mods whatsoever, only normal wear." is probably how it went.

Come on guys (IPSC Board), when you do things like this (and chose when and where to inforce the rules instead of all the time) , all you do is insult and degrade our sport.

[Kevin Kline]

BigDave, this Czech kids have very, VERY TOUGH skin!  

M8? 

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

Umm ... errrr ... sure, that must be it!

Strangely, though, the discussion has strayed from what Julie posted about. If I'm reading her post correctly, she talks more about the attitude she got than about the gun itself. She's saying: 'I felt the gun was illegal. I had the right to file a protest and I did. The protest and the gun in question were considered and a decision was made. Case closed - I don't really like the decision but I respect it.' And I respect Julie for taking it that way. What bothers me more is the animosity towards her that the protest started. Reactions like that are unacceptable, in my book, in the heat of the match or not.

What I find surprising is that the same people who talk in their replies about playing by the rules question a decision that was (and nothing indicates otherwise) taken in accordance with the rules. Not to mention that most of us are sitting thousands of miles away from Ecuador, making comments based on an old crappy picture (btw, I also think the gun in the picture looks weird).

Although I shoot Production, I don't like the Production rules and their interpretation too much. But they're what we have.

Oh, just for the record, I shoot the Glock 17 and Adam is not a buddy of mine

<{POST_SNAPBACK}>

CZM8,

I agree with you that Julie had the right to do what she did. Also, Im not judging my opinions on the crappy picture, Im going on what Julie and David Olhasso saw while they were there. Plus, you have to admit, a CZ factory rep inspecting HIS CZ sponsored shooters gun at the arbitration hearing??? That's wrong. It doesnt take a rep to see the trigger guard was filed or not.

[Mark Perez]

Congratulations to everyone on their performance and especially to "J-go" for having the cojones to do the right thing.

This link has more detailed photos of the SP01 and from my point of view it dosn't look like there is very much material under the trigger guard to remove without causing a weakening of the that part of the frame.

Not having seen the winning gun in question , I'll defer to those that have to make the comparison.

fwiw,

Mark

[Tengu]

Does anyone have an idea who the top five finishers were in men's and women's Standard? If the results are known in Open and Production, there must be sense of how things fell out in Standard!

[Viggen]

Well, at least we now have a discussion point or point of contention for this match. I expect there will be a few more coming along.

It's the same with every match, particularly every major match. Did somebody "get away" with something. Did that guy actually make minor power factor? Did that RO make a really bad call and the guy Really should have been DQed but since he didn't he won the stage and the match? Favoritism? U

Protests are part of this game and can be part of the headgame that is played .

But as in all the other major matches with all their little irregularities, this too will smooth out and the only thing that will really be remembered will be the order of finish.

Now, we move on to the rematch - The rumble in the Jungle, errr... I mean Indonesia.

But hey, we still don't even know the official scores and placement.

[GuildSF4]

I respect Julie and I believe she did the right things. Especially how she posted to let people know what really happened, and that she accepted the decision of the Arbitration Committee.

The gestures and foul language from others was wrong.

I agree with the earlier comments on inspection of the top few finishers guns /rigs other sports do this as a matter of course (Racing...) definitely would remove controversy.