local club says I can't shoot Appendix.

[nimitz87]

hello all, I have shot 2 practice matches with my local club, and went to attend a steel challenge qualifier match I only was able to shoot 3 out of 5 stages before being stopped.

 

I was shooting open class, appendix and was not allowed to finish my stages while not being DQ'd, I never broke the 180. the RO said it was "too close for comfort" I asked him if you get pulled over for being too close to over the speed limit and he didn't really have an answer. can a local club make rules that supersede USPSA's own rules?

 

an email from the president of the local club.

 

Quote

It has been discussed with a few people on the board regarding safety at our club for appendix carry.

It has not been brought to an official vote as of yet or discussed with the entire board.

Unofficially, although it is not against USPSA rules, some of us think it is a safety issue.  Maybe not for the individual shooting, but for the surrounding parties who have the potential to be near the 180/90 due to our range constraints.  This is definitely a concern on Sundays with a common firing line as well as Stage 1 for right-handed shooters and Stage 3 for left-handed shooters for the possibility of pointing muzzle uprange.

It will require a vote by the board of the club to make an official ruling at the club level, and will be discussed at the next BOD meeting.

2

 

if anyone has suggestions on how to go forward from here I'd greatly appreciate it, this email was 3 months ago so I was going to email them again because I haven't heard anything back.

Edited August 5, 2018 by nimitz87

[Smitty79]

The club I practice at has some local rules that preclude us hosting USPSA matches.   At last year's section match, the Limited champion shot a Glock 34 from AIWB.   He's a nationally known shooting instructor and is amazing to watch.

 

In the rule book.  

3.3 Applicability of Rules:

USPSA matches are governed by the rules applicable to the discipline. Host organizations may not enforce local rules except to comply with legislation or legal precedent in the applicable jurisdiction. Any voluntarily adopted rules that are not in compliance with these rules must not be applied to USPSA matches without the express written consent of the President of USPSA. All local rules allowed under these provisions will be documented at USPSA HQ.

Edited August 5, 2018 by Smitty79

[reverse_edge]

AIWB isn't against the rules, but breaking the 180 is. I'm not understanding how AIWB is a 180 concern.

 

Also, if it's been three months, they're probably just hoping you're going to go away. Which, you definitely shouldn't do. You can either fight it, find another club, or just shoot OWB. Lots of people who play this game carry AIWB. Myself included. I promise you're not missing anything by shooting an OWB rig. 

 

[nimitz87]

1 hour ago, reverse_edge said:

AIWB isn't against the rules, but breaking the 180 is. I'm not understanding how AIWB is a 180 concern.

 

Also, if it's been three months, they're probably just hoping you're going to go away. Which, you definitely shouldn't do. You can either fight it, find another club, or just shoot OWB. Lots of people who play this game carry AIWB. Myself included. I promise you're not missing anything by shooting an OWB rig.  

 

I know I'm not losing anything but I also don't want to just conform. Maybe I'm being stubborn and hard headed, it's happened before. I feel like they'll just keep turning away appendix shooters, and it's only on the rise. I also don't know how much I want to fight it and be "that guy."

 

funny thing is they said they aren't worried about me because I am a "safe and competent shooter" but worried about the guy who watches youtube videos and comes in off the streets, whatever that means.

 

that's exactly who I am, I had never drawn live fire before my first practice match, only a few hundred thousand dry fires though.

 

 

 

Edited August 5, 2018 by nimitz87

[broadus123]

I know a club that does not allow pcc at their uspsa matches. I think the club can set their own rules.

[mwray]

Why did the RO let you shoot 3 stages before he decided it wasn’t okay with him? What was different?

[HoMiE]

1 hour ago, broadus123 said:

I know a club that does not allow pcc at their uspsa matches. I think the club can set their own rules.

A club does not have to recognize every division. However a club cannot make up local rules. 

[broadus123]

1 hour ago, HoMiE said:

A club does not have to recognize every division. However a club cannot make up local rules. 

That makes sense

[ChuckS]

6.2.1 USPSA Divisions recognize different handguns and equipment (see
Appendix D). Each match must recognize at least one Division. When
multiple Divisions are available in a match, each Division must be
scored separately and independently, and match results must recognize
a winner in each Division.

[PatJones]

I don't shoot steel challenge, you'd have to look at the rules. But in USPSA, there are allowances to sweeping and the 180 rule during the draw.

10.5 Match Disqualification – Unsafe Gun Handling
Examples of unsafe gun handling include, but are not limited to:

10.5.5 Allowing the muzzle of a handgun to point at any part of the competitor’s body during a course of fire (i.e. sweeping).

10.5.5.1 Exception – A match disqualification is not applicable for sweeping of the lower extremities (below the belt) while drawing or re-holstering of the handgun, provided that the competitor’s fingers are clearly outside of the trigger guard. This exception is only for holstered handguns. Sweeping does not apply to a handgun holstered in compliance with Rules 5.2.1 and 5.2.7

10.5.6 While facing downrange, allowing the muzzle of a loaded handgun to
point uprange beyond a radius of 3 feet from a competitor’s feet while
drawing or re-holstering.

[Hammer002]

Shooting from concealment is specifically not allowed in Steel Challenge.  Uspsa = yes.  Steel Challenge = no.  There is a specific rule variation for Steel Challenge:

 

3.1.3

Due to the unique nature of the Steel Challenge, drawing from

concealment is not allowed.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Hammer002

[Hammer002]

9 hours ago, nimitz87 said:

I know I'm not losing anything but I also don't want to just conform. Maybe I'm being stubborn and hard headed, it's happened before. I feel like they'll just keep turning away appendix shooters, and it's only on the rise. I also don't know how much I want to fight it and be "that guy."

 

funny thing is they said they aren't worried about me because I am a "safe and competent shooter" but worried about the guy who watches youtube videos and comes in off the streets, whatever that means.

 

that's exactly who I am, I had never drawn live fire before my first practice match, only a few hundred thousand dry fires though.

 

 

 

 

You did say Steel Challenge, right?  If so, see my post above.  Shooting 3 of the 5 stages isnt that surprising before someone caught it.  Many steel challenge ROs are not certified with the USPSA.  Technically, there isnt even yet a separate certification for it.

Edited August 6, 2018 by Hammer002

[Hammer002]

5 hours ago, ChuckS said:

6.2.1 USPSA Divisions recognize different handguns and equipment (see
Appendix D). Each match must recognize at least one Division. When
multiple Divisions are available in a match, each Division must be
scored separately and independently, and match results must recognize
a winner in each Division.

 

Although your post correctly addressed the post before it regarding USPSA, you saw this was Steel Challenge....right?  Or am I screwed up?

Edited August 6, 2018 by Hammer002

[reverse_edge]

OP Edited in Steel Challenge. If that's why they're disallowing AIWB carry, fine. That's the rule of that game. Sorry OP.

 

If you're interested in being hard headed about shooting AIWB at other matches, take it to the house. Be prepared for the potential that it doesn't go your way. Such is life. 

[perttime]

Good thing this guy didn't have his holster in the AIWB position:

 

 

[Flatland Shooter]

Wow.  His finger was clearly outside the trigger guard.  Can anyone tell what gun he is shooting?  I guess the trigger caught on something inside the holster?

[Hammer002]

2 hours ago, reverse_edge said:

OP Edited in Steel Challenge. 

 

Ahhh, now it makes sense.  It seemed funny that got by so many people here that I know know the rules very well.

 

Maybe its worth turning it into a PRO/NO AIWB carry topic.  lol.  I say its insanely unsafe to the shooter and even tactically at a disadvantage.  GO!  lol.

[ChuckS]

I moved this thread to the Steel Challenge so that at least I, won't be confused about what game this is.

 

And the OP asked about SC rules, local rules and AIWB. Please take any pro/con discussion to another thread.

 

Thanks!

Chuck

 

 

[xpierrat]

Aiwb is not illegal in steel challenge having it concealed ( covered by shirt as example ) would be.....

[Thomas H]

On 8/7/2018 at 10:11 PM, xpierrat said:

Aiwb is not illegal in steel challenge having it concealed ( covered by shirt as example ) would be.....

 

^^This.

 

AIWB is perfectly legal for Steel Challenge matches, as is IWB.  It is just that almost no one ever does it, because the draws are slower than OWB. 

 

That doesn't change the fact that as long as you don't have a concealment garment over it, using an IWB or AIWB holster in Steel Challenge is perfectly legal, as long as it meets division requirements.

[stick]

Steel Challenge has its own set of rules.  Nothing I read says you can't, but why wold you?  It's slower than OWB

3.1 Holsters: In general, holsters shall be mounted at the waist, must
cover the trigger, and must safely hold/retain the gun. All Centerfire
firearms must be appropriate for holster use. Female competitors are
permitted to wear a belt, holster and allied equipment at hip level.
3.1.1 Rimfire competition does not involve the use of a holster. It is
permissible for a Rimfire pistol to be transported between stages in a
holster. Either a gun case or a holster must be used for transport.
3.1.2 Division-specific holster restrictions may apply. See appendix J1
through J9 for division-specific information.
3.1.3 Due to the unique nature of the Steel Challenge, drawing from
concealment is not allowed.