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Hammer002

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About Hammer002

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    Olathe, KS
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    Ben DeHaemers

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  1. Not sure your intent, but to clarify, two justifications were given to a statement. I just put them in an order to understand and debate their meaning and conclusion. Basic repeat (reciprocate) the statement given in a more simple way to generate a response, in this situation, a pointed question. If you would be attempting to infer I changed the order to change the debate or meaning of the discussion, you would be in gross error or simply unable to keep up with a conversation intellectually over your head. Either way, I ask, what did you contribute to the discussion? And before you answer, maybe Google: rhetorical question. You had no input on any of the discussion before, I doubt you do now, and I doubt you will anytime soon. So how about we wait for Moto’s answer together, and we both may learn something, he’s got a respectable opinion.
  2. Not arguing the other way, you're entitled too whatever opinion you like, I was just wondering how the first two statements concluded to the third?
  3. Its very interesting to see the variety of experiences here. I came on as a second match director for our area this year. Two years ago, we got 30 or so for local matches and about 100 for level 2. Last year we got 50 to 70 for locals and 120 or so for level 2, and it was obviously growing. This year I was brought on and noticed the writing on the wall early. Our Jan and Feb matches filled completely, 72 guns. with decent weather. I went from hosting 7 stages/7 12 person squads to 6 stages/6 10 person squads/TWO flights (morning/afternoon). We immediately began filling the 120 spots. I then expanded more to set up Saturday mid day and the set up crew of 20 shot Saturday afternoon, making for a 140 entry total. Its still filling and in need of further expansion. So our experience is congruent with the USPSA report of growing numbers. Personally, I have been involved for 3 years. I have ALWAYS paid attention to classification. Doing math at the end of each match posting if I had personal bests to see what my new percentage will be. I have seen this to be the case with MOST Steel Challenge shooters. So much so an app, Matchtracker, is taking off cause it allows you to do this on your phone on the fly. I believe this is one of the main attractions of Steel Challenge. Nearly all people I interact with watch their classification. To say people don't care about their classification is to not understand the sport at all. Sure there are some who may not. Some of those may not understand it yet either. Usually once they do, they care. I can tell you there is heartache if a stage is set up improperly and we have to throw it out, cause it doesn't go to classification. People, the vast majority of people, not only care about their classification, they watch it closely. The other match director I work with incorporated wild cat stages cause he thought people would think its fun. It kinda was. But my feedback was most were not interested in shooting a stage not for classification. Some told me they would reconsider driving as far as they do to shoot a stage that's not a classifier. We held a Rimfire Challenge match on a week with an extra weekend, thinking it would give everyone something different. We had ZERO overflow from our large Steel Challenge base. Several came from far to shoot the match cause they already shoot Rimfire Challenge, but we got nothing from our Steel Challenge crowd. When asked why? The answer was unanimous - cause none of those stages count for any classification and shooting them is a waste of time. People care about classification. A lot. Even at the low levels. D trying to make C and all the way up. As far as changing the way classifications are obtained or calculated, from reading most of the posts here, its just blind opinion. It doesn't seem too many actually understand how it works or even where the numbers are obtained, nor the fact that its not just a numbers game, but a concentrated effort of thought by some really great people. One of them being Zack Jones, who has been gracious enough to post here. For the record, he pushed for the 3 second penalty in Outer Limits instead of 4, but was overridden by higher powers. The classification numbers mostly come from the Worlds scores. Participation is also considered. WHO is also considered. Many things are considered and the more I learn the more I see what an amazing job is being done to provide us a competitive system. I could not disagree more with overall match scores being a classification. That is way too unreliable with far too many variables. As long as everyone is doing the same, it really doesn't matter too much anyway. But classifying on a per stage basis shows what any one competitor is capable of. No, we don't always shoot our classification, which is the exact reason our classification should not be based on the whole. You may shoot a 80 percent two weeks in a row. However, you shot Roundabout really well and Outer Limits poorly one week versus shooting Outer Limits really well the second week, but tanked Pendulum, still giving the same score. Neither scenario shows what you are capable of. My classification shows what I am capable of if I show up and shoot all 8 stages to my full ability. That's an extremely rare occasion, if ever, to actually happen, so my classification should not be based on the whole. If it were, one persons classification may be held high because he shoots Roundabout really, really, well, but the others mediocre. What happens when a match doesn't do Roundabout? This is still slightly true now, but nowhere near the discrepancy if graded as a whole all the time. Whole times would be based on completely different combinations of stages. Very few clubs run all eight. Usually its a different 4 or 6 from last week. Last, only obtaining classification above level one matches would not work well, nor support the sport. Not many new shooters, D or even C like to pay the entry fees or the expense to travel to level 2 matches. So they would not be participating in the major aspect of Steel Challenge - the goal of classification. People who don't care are the great minority, I assure you. Level 2 classification only would also create, even unintentional, vicious sandbagging. Shooting for years and obtaining the skill level of a GM, however shooting one match to be a D and stealing the show. Also, as it should for several reasons, USPSA requires membership for level 2 participation. Most people don't want to pay for a membership to only use it once a year at the local level 2. They get it and keep it to keep track of their classification. Competitors care about classification. On a large, quickly growing scale. The system as it is now is actually solid. And its carefully thought through when changes are made, adding the human element. The only real issue is the lack of ceiling for GM where there can be as much of a difference in shooters as comparing a D to an A. But that's true in any sport. And I thank those involved.
  4. I actually agree with the whole first paragraph, its just simply not a reason to get rid of it. If you read the thread, I have said I would vote to get rid of it. And I did see your daughter's scores, pretty sure she beat you with the RFPO. Means somebody is teaching her well.
  5. This. ALL of this ^^^. lol. There really is a big difference, especially in GM status cause there is no ceiling. 95.1 percent GM vs 110 percent or 120 percent GM is going to be no contest. And nothing is a given. A GM can blow a stage just as easy as any other classification, however, its usually more costly within their classification competitors. I believe it would be more important to remedy other classes than GM, but they also stay within a smaller bracket. Keep in mind, as I remember it, they wanted to move the peak times down TWICE as much as they did this year, saying they wanted to break the movement into at least two years. I would expect, and hope for that matter, this remains true and we get the same change, think it was 3 seconds for most, in 2020.
  6. Who?? When?? Come on, Mr Kish, you are making it up as you go along. You're a B level shooter who shot a 20.58 RFRO time and a 18.41 PCCO time. Most of the runs were in the 5.5 second area. The heavier PCCO seemed slower, but still not bad for your classification under all those conditions. That's actually not all that bad! I'm a GM and I'm praying for anything under 4 at a match. I'd actually say you might be being a bit hard on yourself. Not only that, but minus a miss and an apparent one bad flight of 9.99, which I would guess to be your first as my first is usually the roughest, you were very consistent with your times. Those are NOT bad times, especially if as tired and in the weather all day as you said. Your personal best in RFRO Outer Limits is 17.35, yes 3 seconds the wrong direction, but again what to expect under those conditions, of which everyone is shooting. Your PCCO personal best is 16.8, which is 1.61 of what you shot in the match. I'd say you actually did quite well under those circumstances. I can tell you I have personally done worse under less! Listen, all I'm saying is to get rid of Outer Limits we need actual reasons. You nor I can point to anyone who has even fallen, let alone caused injury to self or others. The stage has been successfully shot millions of times. I think, like most, you just don't care for it. Now that is a valid reason. Just say that, I guess. I think you shot it better than you give yourself credit. In that weather, under that type of match stress, at the end of the day? You shot well.
  7. Wait wait wait, if you shot at CMP then you shot the Alabama State match. I LEVEL 2 match! And you aren't comfortable with your guns or they are new to you?? Who is shooting a level 2 match with guns they are unfamiliar with??
  8. So what?? What does that have to do with Outer Limits? I shot all day in the same circumstances. Even helped tear down.
  9. I gave you credit for the valid opinion. Again, maybe read. But you backed it with nothing but whining. And you are right, but not to say I cant. I AM free to read, just as I am free to read and point out silliness when I see it.
  10. Its ok not to agree with the post right above yours, but possibly should have read it. Or need to again. Stop whining. YOU chose the sport. Just like your other post complaining about peak times, stop whining about how everything should cater to you. Is the snowflake generation invading the baby boomer generation? If you can compete, great! Do it. If you cant, find something you can do. Stop trying to use "its dangerous" as an excuse to nanny and kid glove the whole world. Guns are dangerous. GUNS WERE MEANT TO BE DANGEROUS. We choose to shoot them as competition. CHOOSE. If you simply cant do it, or feel you cant, don't. But don't demand everyone else cater and change to your low standards. Steel Challenge, nor any other shooting sport I know of was meant to be a handicap/elderly/limited function format. Just because there is limited movement does not mean it was thought up for the disabled. Its a shooting sport. If you can compete, even if disabled, wonderful. If you cant, stop insisting the world change for you. If it does go, great, but it is the sport as it is now. If there is a good reason to get rid of it, its not in your post.
  11. First, this is how it goes for just about everyone who has not mastered Outer Limits. Most of the field has not. Most don't practice it. Most do it wrong. Most shooters do exactly as displayed, high scores except for Outer Limits, especially compared to peak times. Second, you have to get over whining about the current penalty for no movement. It has to be the way it is for many reasons. No one likes it. Get rid of the stage? Maybe. A respectable opinion. However, its a part of the game now. To continuously complain about it is like wanting to play baseball, but you cant hit. Sure, I can catch well, I can run faster than anyone else, I have a great attitude, but I cant hit. So expect the game to cater to you?? Its like wanting to play basketball, but cant dribble. I can shoot from anywhere on the court 100%, but I cant dribble. I cant play basketball. Compete at your level. If you cant move, sorry for your condition, but it doesn't mean an entire sport should cater to you. If a vote came out today to get rid of Outer Limits, I would vote to do it for people just such as yourself, cause I do support everyone, but to continuously complain about an aspect of the game you knowingly decided to play and then expect it to change for you is just wrong. Glad you can compete. Sorry you cant be competitive. If you feel the need to be competitive at something, find something you can knowingly from the start be competitive at. In Steel Challenge, compete against yourself, or do it cause you like it.
  12. Ok, gonna kinda lay this out for you, as best I can. I'm gonna shoot you straight and not put the kid gloves on and waste your time. So, the things I say are going to be straight forward and direct, not meaning to belittle or be mean, just honest. Text is so hard to properly convey tone and attitude. The attempt is to be helpful, but direct. First, for credential purpose, I am a GM in RFPO in Steel Challenge in addition to RFRO and PCCO. Not said to boast, but for experience level reference. Ben DeHaemers A19646 First, to reciprocate a few things in your post: "Only shot a dot on PCC / Used to 9mm 1911 / decreases with stronger grip / challenge for rapid target transitions / comp degrades accuracy even for steel challenge." These were the main things I caught needing addressed. The easiest to address, unless a comp is filled with carbon and actually touching the projectile as it passes, no comp is going to change accuracy unless we are talking about rifles shooting hundreds of yards, which has to do with far different things than we are going to discuss here. I can only image your tests have been freestanding or at best arms resting on a bench. Its you. Or something is wrong with the gun or ammunition. Again, I don't know how you conducted your testing nor how far, but I don't have to, to know its something having to do with you or the gun. 99 percent sure its technique even though you think you are doing the same thing either way. Next, your admitted experience level with the topic at hand, shooting with a red dot AND shooting a Ruger Lite, is nonexistent and you are comparing to previous experience with completely different platforms of a far heavier variety and far different caliber, but I think you realize that. You have to realize it IS the weight of the Ruger that is one of the differences. ADDING WEIGHT IS NOT THE ANSWER. I think we already talked about this, if not find my recent post about it. Learning to shoot the gun is. At high speed, those of us used to shooting dots on pistols are accustom to what we call "shooting a squiggly line instead of a round dot" most of the time. Rapid sight acquisition comes from practice. Not chasing an impossibility of lowering recoil. The only way to change recoil instead of YOU is to shoot a heavier gun that absorbs the recoil, however this makes steel challenge transitions far more difficult. and basically undermines anything you would want for Steel Challenge. Grip - no matter what gun you are shooting in steel challenge, 1911 pistol, rimfire pistol, even any rifle, your grip should be as tight as absolutely possible ALL THE TIME. I can imagine this is part of accuracy differences for you as well. All guns will shoot flatter with a strong grip. All guns will shoot more accurately with a strong grip. A weaker grip will have the opposite effect and change function of some guns. I understand from previous posts you are of the older variety, do the best you can to grip as tight as absolutely possible. Frankly, you post a lot of issues. Most are overthinking or brand new shooter issues. Practice. Practice with your chosen gun Especially a new gun to you. You are not missing because of a comp. You missed because you broke a bad shot. You allowed the gun to move during trigger engagement. In Steel Challenge our most difficult shot is 18 yards to a 10 inch plate. It's made difficult only with the introduction of speed. Otherwise, even the worst of guns should be pegging the plate with no issue. The same CANNOT be said for the worst of shooters. Practice with the gun. Practice will answer most of your questions. Last, maybe the bulk of your question as you worded it, yes, the Ruger 22/45 is going to have more recoil movement when just considering the gun itself. Its light. (LITE). The lighter the pistol the more it will move if not properly stabilized by the grip. Even with a stable grip, the gun will move more than one twice as heavy. First time red dot shooters all notice the same thing - while holding the gun the dot will show you every single move you make. Every tremble, every jerk, every uneven trigger pull. Its all normal and part of the process. I would be remiss if I didn't mention one more thing. Start to look inward for progress. So many of you posts seem to complain or blame things keeping you from performing. Outer limits box construction, ground type, RO interaction, gun issues, etc. I understand asking around for outside influence, but reading your posts seems to me as though you are distracted from personal improvement by so many things thought to be negatively affecting you. That's the game. If you want to be a competitor, or even just compete, there are things you are going to have to accept and deal with. Too much recoil? Look into your grip. Adding weight IS NOT the answer (again). Missing? Its not because of a comp. A challenge to perform very rapid transitions? Learn to transition - are you sure you are moving your eyes in front of the gun to the next target during recoil? I'm betting not if you are seeing the sights "oscillate" during recoil. I'm betting you are still looking at the dot instead of the next target during recoil. I'm betting you are looking at the dot instead of looking at the target being shot and allowing the dot to superimpose itself on the target. The fact alone that you see the dot moving during recoil and discussing transitions being challenging means you could spend some time actually learning to transition. I give it to you this way to be direct. Try not to imply a tone anything other than helpful to my words. They are meant to be no nonsense for the purpose of realization, if it can be had. I wish you the very best of luck out there and hope to run into you on the path. If you like, look me up on Facebook. I am an established GM, undefeated for quite some time locally, even placed my name above some of the best at some majors this season. Again, I don't say it out of arrogance, I try to be quite humble. I try to give a little credibility to my posts. On Facebook I have established a Steel Challenge club for the local area I am the match director for. I have also started blog writing intended for beginner to expert shooters after so many here asking for coaching. I am a scholastic team coach as well. Look me up, I would love to help in any way I can. Either way, wish you the best.
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